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Kenwood Forum - For discussion of land mobile radio products manufactured by Kenwood. This is to include the TK(R) and NX(R) series radios and their associated accessories. This forum is not for the TM series; use Amateur Radio Equipment.

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  #301 (permalink)  
Old 04-20-2017, 8:19 PM
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Got to remember, I'm a radio tech, if i worried about every single id, i need 4 or 5 radios to keep up with the list. No thanks. I good with just a number.

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  #302 (permalink)  
Old 04-20-2017, 8:31 PM
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Originally Posted by kd4efm View Post
Got to remember, I'm a radio tech, if i worried about every single id, i need 4 or 5 radios to keep up with the list. No thanks. I good with just a number.

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Evans,

I understand what you are saying but on the flip side I'm sure you are aware that it is common practice for hams to load all IDs for hams registered on the ham DMR network. Probably only necessary or desired for those who spend time on the nationwide talkgroups but still...perhaps that's the desire. Or maybe I'm thinking about something different?
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  #303 (permalink)  
Old 04-20-2017, 8:35 PM
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Evans,

I understand what you are saying but on the flip side I'm sure you are aware that it is common practice for hams to load all IDs for hams registered on the ham DMR network. Probably only necessary or desired for those who spend time on the nationwide talkgroups but still...perhaps that's the desire. Or maybe I'm thinking about something different?
I hear you and Doug LC. I'm just not a fan of loading the list, let alone using D1. Yeah it's slow as poop, but i have other needs than to worry about who is talking, besides, we I'd when we talk. I'm good.. Not against it, have fun, just not my tea party.

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Old 04-20-2017, 9:58 PM
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Old 04-20-2017, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by rescue161 View Post
if you want more in DMR, you have to remove some from the other services. I think I ended up with 10 for NXDN, 25 for P25, and the rest for DMR.
How do I go about deleting from the other services?

Thank you,
Doug
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  #306 (permalink)  
Old 04-20-2017, 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by dapaq2 View Post
When I go into the "DMR" tab and look at the "Individual ID List" section. Checking out how many ID's I can enter and it shows the maximum to be 100. Really? only 100 individual id's are allowed? Heck the MD380 allows up to 1,000. Whats up with that Kenwood???!!!!

Doug
Doug, you're comparing public safety radio with a ham radio. Provide me with a department other than the government, that has 1500 - 2000 or MORE, DMR users in "one single department on a single channel system outside of ham radio", that such a list is needed, and I will go to Kenwood and say here is your proof. Produce it and I will eat my words.

I did not miss your question. You asked "Really?". What kind of a question is to be answered when asked, really, and with the mind set that this 600$ radio should do more. I would imagine if it was an APX for 4,600$ you might have a leg to stand on there, and it only did 500 user id's.

Why do people in general blame Kenwood when the NX-5000 radio is not a ham radio, but a hobbyists dream toy, that is built for Public Safety or Commercial use? Everyone thinks Kenwood should bow to us hams, I'm sorry but they will not when it comes to LMR radios. They have a ham division, beat on their door, ask them for a 5000 series radio for hams, see how far that goes.

Not mad at you Doug, but think for just a minute, does this really need to be beaten on? This is a commercial radio, that people pay good money for, and was built with mission critical needs in mind, not ham radio or a hobby, and another note, by all means it is not a 900$ trunk system scanner without a skf file either. Why does it need to have the front door opened up? Money was spent, go ask them to put it in the radio for you. Use DSD+ is free, there are trunk tracking add ins for it. Sorry, but even I cant get keys to stuff when I have to demo it to them, cry over that, I'm with a dealer, and I get told no. Move on.

Folks, this is a radio with a purpose, not some pleasure toy. I spent $6,000 or so, for my gear, and I have to use it for my employment needs and reasons, as well as sales. Yes, i play on the ham bands with it too. That is why I got away from Mother M.
I don't need 1500 or 2000 or 4000 user names in a list where I might hear that person's call one time in 20 years. I have hytera DMR radios for that. I don't play with bubble pack for radios, i use the real deal. My doing, not yours.

You want quality, then pick your poison.

You want quantity, then get a tyt or that awful beaufong 50 dollar throw away that is an emission splattering piece of garbage, but you better not use it on my repeater, I will turn off my repeater if you do. No garbage allowed here.

End rant. Good night.

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  #307 (permalink)  
Old 04-20-2017, 10:54 PM
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Originally Posted by dapaq2 View Post
How do I go about deleting from the other services?

Thank you,
Doug
While In the dmr list, look in the upper left corner for partition, click, a new window opens, adjust to your needs.


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  #308 (permalink)  
Old 04-20-2017, 11:33 PM
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I did not miss your question. You asked "Really?".
I never asked "Really?". I said "And DMR and P25?..." You commented that you didn't need the id list because NXDN has OTAA and the caller id display... I was asking "ok, what about DMR and P25..." As in DMR and P25 also have the OTAA functionality and caller id?

Your comment on me comparing the NX5000 series to a ham radio, Yes I know its a Public Safety radio, yes I know their focus wasn't for ham radio use, yes I get all that and understand it very well. My comments and complaints are that some things they do seem too be a little TOO (or dumb) conservative the way it was done or decided. Like why does the volume always have to revert to volume number eight(8) after overtime the radio gets written to by the software when it should leave the volume level as last set?, dumb and annoying. I don't need you to go to Kenwood and prove anyone or anything wrong. This is all my personal opinion and I just think that 100 id's seem to be way too concentrative, where as 500 to 1000 id's I feel would have been acceptable... Again, MY opinion.

I have no idea what this below is all about that you said, but I think you have me confused with someone else as I don't have a scanner and I don't mess with or have any interest in trunking system scanners...
"and another note, by all means it is not a 900$ trunk system scanner without a skf file either. Why does it need to have the front door opened up? Money was spent, go ask them to put it in the radio for you. Use DSD+ is free, there are trunk tracking add ins for it. Sorry, but even I cant get keys to stuff when I have to demo it to them, cry over that, I'm with a dealer, and I get told no. Move on."

The 'other' things (i.e. cheap Baofeng comments) you mentioned and etc you make all good points on and I equally support you...

End of my return rant...

Night...

Doug
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  #309 (permalink)  
Old 04-21-2017, 12:02 AM
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Both Evans and Rescue confirmed there is 1500 available ID slots, why are you still arguing that there is 100?
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Old 04-21-2017, 5:51 AM
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Yes, you can have 500 on DMR and 500 on P25 if you like, or more. The total cannot exceed 1500 for the radio.
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Old 04-21-2017, 6:38 AM
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Yes it is a PUBLIC SAFETY radio...So my comment of making it able to scan other PUBLIC SAFETY trunked systems without a .skf file or being able to scan a trunked system via a "non-affiliate" method is a valid point. Here is my issue: I'm authorized on several trunked systems. Have a valid ID and system key. BUT, I would like to monitor other systems that I'm not authorized on. Currently doing this with a scanner, a G5 Unication and by programming gear to non affiliate. I can do it with Harris. I can do it with Relm. My point is I will not buy a 7/800 Kenwood until they open that door. VHF/UHF Kenwood I think makes a great product, especially with dual capabilities on P25, NXDN and DMR. Great job Kenwood. But I think they are missing a customer base like me. I can't be the only one complaining.

As far as other members commenting about radio IDs....if its something that the end user wants and it's their thing of buying or not buying a product, why not bring it forward to Kenwood? It's sales and the customer comes first. I think all these manufacturers keep forgetting that. The cheap Chinese radios will do it so the customer expects the big commercial gear companies to do it.

That's why I won't buy anything from Uniden or Whistler until they fix the LSM issues they have receiving Simulcast. They won't listen to their customer base.


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Old 04-21-2017, 7:06 AM
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Ok............ Still looking for help!! Trying to program up some DMR stuffed mirrored over from my old Motorola MotoTrbo radio and things don't seem to be working right. Anyone familiar with Motorola and Kenwood with respects to DMR? IF someone can PM me, I can send them my codeplug to review the DMR stuff. What is happening is the Kenwood is seeing traffic on a DMR channel that I use to hear no problem on my Motorola rig. However, now, the channel will not open on the Kenwood rig.
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  #313 (permalink)  
Old 04-21-2017, 7:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Signal-Zero View Post
Yes it is a PUBLIC SAFETY radio...So my comment of making it able to scan other PUBLIC SAFETY trunked systems without a .skf file or being able to scan a trunked system via a "non-affiliate" method is a valid point. Here is my issue: I'm authorized on several trunked systems. Have a valid ID and system key. BUT, I would like to monitor other systems that I'm not authorized on.
I second the crap out of this. That and make a friggen dual bander, not even a tri bander, and put the full uhf spectrum on the dang radio... There's so many agencies that use the full spectrum from the low 402's to high 502's that need two radios to even get to talk to other agencies.


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Old 04-21-2017, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Signal-Zero View Post
As far as other members commenting about radio IDs....if its something that the end user wants and it's their thing of buying or not buying a product, why not bring it forward to Kenwood? It's sales and the customer comes first. I think all these manufacturers keep forgetting that. The cheap Chinese radios will do it so the customer expects the big commercial gear companies to do it.
I don't understand the issue with the ID thing.

I've got an NXDN trunked system and I use the over the air aliasing. It's much easier to maintain than trying to keep radio ID alias tables up to date in 400 radios. Tried that in older MTS-2000's and quickly gave up.

Since individual radios sometimes are -not- assigned to individual users, but get handed around from shift to shift, or are just in a pool/gang charger, tying an individual radio to a specific user isn't something I need. For Those that have their own radios, over the air aliasing works fine.

For public safety I've got some VHF systems, all analog conventional. I use MDC ID's for that. On the public safety side individual users names are not used as ID's. Instead officers use badge numbers, unit ID's, etc. That can easily be programmed into the radio. For the vehicle mounted radios, the vehicle number is used as the ID. Since vehicles are shared between shifts, putting user names in the vehicle radios would be pointless.

I can understand there may be other small departments that want individual officer names in the radios. I get it. But most of this I'm reading seems to be the amateur radio community complaining that Kenwood didn't take their specific needs into account when designing these radios. News flash: It wasn't designed for amateur radio operators.
Maintaining radio ID alias databases in hundreds of different radios isn't something that's realistic for most agencies. Kenwood knows that. They solved this on the NXDN side with the over the air aliasing.
If P25 doesn't support that, then that's a shortcoming of P25 and should be brought up with APCO.
If DMR doesn't support it, then that's a shortcoming of DMR.

Blaming the radio manufacturer seems like flawed logic.

Anyway, as amateur radio operators, I'd say take it upon yourself to fix this rather than expecting a radio manufacturer to do it for you. Back in the old days amateurs built their own radios. Why don't you guys reverse engineer the firmware/hardware and do the following:
-Increase the memory allocation/size to support more aliases.
-Modify the protocols you use to support over the air aliasing.
-Modify the programming software to support this.
-Or, how about just getting amateur radio operators to use their call signs rather than expecting the radio to do it for them?

Expecting a manufacturer to put R&D effort, hardware upgrades, etc. into a product line to support a very small fraction of users isn't something that's going to likely happen. With the amount of competition, new technologies, etc. I can guarantee you that Kenwood has bigger things going on than making a public safety radio meet the needs of the amateur radio community.

You'd be better off going to the amateur radio side of Kenwood and asking for the product you need. If there really is such a great demand for it, they'll agree with you and would be better suited to make a product to meet that need.

Personally, I'd much rather see the LMR side of Kenwood focus on what we need as LMR/Public Safety users, rather than shifting resources to meet the demands of the amateur radio crowd.
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Old 04-21-2017, 11:20 AM
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It's always amazed me that DMR and P25 don't have OTAA "caller ID" like NXDN. Crazy.
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Old 04-21-2017, 12:29 PM
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If the amateur market was such a small fraction, then why would they need so many user ID's? Each one of those IDs is a potential customer. That's my point.

Yes I understand they are not designed for the amateur market, but if that's your argument then maybe they should remove 2m from VHF and 70cm from their public safety products. Because the amateurs don't need them, right?


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Old 04-21-2017, 12:32 PM
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I think we all have good points but this has gone over the scope of the number of user slots, I apologize for the rant, but this is getting lip sided now.

Thanks.

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Old 04-21-2017, 1:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Signal-Zero View Post
If the amateur market was such a small fraction, then why would they need so many user ID's?
60 or 70 thousand user ID's is nothing compared to the number of LMR radios out there.

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Each one of those IDs is a potential customer. That's my point.
Yeah right. Maybe, and I mean maybe .5% of those users would buy a NX-5x00 radio to use on DMR. Did you see the sheer number of guys that just about got off on the POS Bao-turd "DMR" because they are too cheap to buy even a MD-380???????? Or the number of hams that bought a CS-580?

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Yes I understand they are not designed for the amateur market, but if that's your argument then maybe they should remove 2m from VHF and 70cm from their public safety products. Because the amateurs don't need them, right?
Hams do want and use LMR radios. It happens every single day.

There is a HUGE difference between a ham buying a LMR radio to use on the ham bands, and a ham that expects LMR manufacturers to tailor their LMR product to the demands of ham operators. All for what? A few single sales that wont even buy the salesman a box of diapers for his kid?

I have a bunch of LMR radios. I use them all the time. what I do not do is get on this forum and start whining that the radio can't hold the entire DMR-MARC ID database, does not have a VFO, does not let me see the frequency and on and on expecting Kenwood to redesign the memory system to accommodate, what is truly a very, very small segment of sales of their NX-5x00 line.

call up Kenwood, talk to their engineers, and demand they increase the contacts list to 65000+ members and see what they tell you.
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Last edited by W9BU; 04-21-2017 at 1:57 PM.. Reason: Deleted deleted incendiary remark
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  #319 (permalink)  
Old 04-21-2017, 1:59 PM
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Folks, attacking a forum member's ideas is fine. But, do not attack the member himself.
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Old 04-21-2017, 2:24 PM
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First of all, I'm not a ham so I don't personally care if they implement 65,000 user IDs. My point is if it's something the customer base wants the idea should be brought forward to manufacturers. If they say no, then they say no. They have reasons such as cost and audience. But let's not hold back the ideas. That's what helps then look outside their little boxes. Remember when scanner enthusiasts complained about not being able to monitor TMDA when P2 trunked systems started coming online. GRE brought a firmware update. Why, because it was something their customer base wanted. They could have easily said "buy our newest model". I'm sure the number of us that had PSR-800 scanners at the time was minuscule. But, they made the customer happy which makes a loyal customer for future products and enhancements.

I agree with a lot of what ALL of you are saying, trust me. I own commercial gear from all different manufacturers and each has its shortcomings. Hell, I wish I had the money to develop an APX-8000 on steroids that did NXDN and DMR too, LOL.

But I agree this has gotten way off topic.


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