Audio Link on other sites

[K4IHS]

Lindsay... So you're saying if I send my 3 feeds to RR I can't stream the same feed to my own web page using a non RR IP address? Just a yes or no will do. If I can't... then I'm outta here. Gee Ed... I'm starting to think you had it right all along... :-(

[blantonl]

Ralph, you can technically "do it" - however we would prefer that you not for the reasons stated above. If folks begin to reverse engineer the process, then we'll be forced to implement prevention processes to keep that from occurring.

We plan on providing later in the year a feed hosting process that will cost a small monthly fee for users that want to play the feeds on their properties. This would be no different than how you obtain Web hosting service today. As stated above, for individuals to host feeds on their Web properties, using our backend infrastructure, means lost opportunity for RadioReference.

We have already been in discussion with a number of feed providers who are helping us price this model properly, including public safety agencies and feed providers that might want to make revenue of their feed.

To clarify, we are NOT going to charge feed providers to broadcast to us, but if a feed provider wants to place the actual feeds on their Web properties, we have in a sense become a web hosting provider for that person.

But, as I said before, I sincerely appreciate you broadcasting to us, but if you feel so strongly about this and you decide to pull your feed, that is your decision and I respect it.

Good luck.

Warm regards,

[K4IHS]

Lindsay... I've been streaming for over 6 years so I'm not new to the idea. Don't get me wrong... I LOVE RR and have been a member since 2002. But if I can't stream to both... and that's how I read your response... then you just lost 3 feeds from Fort Myers, FL. I kill the feeds when I get back to Florida on Friday. :-(

[blantonl]

Hold on, I didn't saw you couldn't stream to both. In fact, if you want to rebroadcast your feed on your site using your infrastructure, that's fine.

I'm certainly not saying that we have to have your feed exclusively - that *would* be a ludicrous position for us to take.

If you want to run your own icecast/shoutcast server and feed clients from it, while also broadcasting to RR, I am more than positive about that.

Warm regards,

[APSN556]

Originally Posted by K4IHS

Lindsay... I've been streaming for over 6 years so I'm not new to the idea. Don't get me wrong... I LOVE RR and have been a member since 2002. But if I can't stream to both... and that's how I read your response... then you just lost 3 feeds from Fort Myers, FL. I kill the feeds when I get back to Florida on Friday. :-(

ditto on all feeds from northern Arizona. As it stands right now I benefit by having my feed on RR because people can listen to my feed both on my site and RR. You benefit because you have the feed on RR and essentially get paid for it.

If I have to start paying to list MY feed on MY site than I loose all benefits and you gain another. You make money off of our feeds and charge more if we use it on our sites. more $$$ for you, still none for me. Lindsay I caution you on this move. Once word gets out that you are going to start making people pay to use their own scanner feed on their site, feeds will drop like flies, and someone will develop a website similar to the old ScanAmerica site and not charge for it. Then the damage will be irreversible. I sincerely encourage you to really think about this move.

[Citywide173]

Originally Posted by blantonl

I also understand that many of you view the $30/premium subscription that we give you as a feed provider as not that big of a deal. Well, consider that this year alone RadioReference has "given" $33,000 worth of Premium subscriptions away to the overall Feed Provider community (1100 unique feed providers * 30 dollars, assuming they provide the feed for a year). That is a LOT of revenue we've invested into this process.

What did you "give" me? I'm paid through October 20th of this year. Even at a prorated amount, that's $9.33 that you're claiming credit for giving me that I paid to you (July 1st to October 20th). I understand, it's a business decision, but you've gone against what Gordon designed at Scan America. He realized that people being able to stream on their own site as well as at Scan America was good business. I provided him with the feed for nothing in return, but now that RR has bought the site, and the feeds, and given us a Premium Membership for our services, you're going to claim exclusivity? Once again, what have you given to me of value for my services to be exclusive to you? MY PAID SUBSCRIPTION HASN'T EXPIRED! I do run a for profit website that requires membership-I've given away memberships for promotional and concessional reasons. The reality is that the service is there one way or the other, and whether or not a person has paid to use it or it is given to them for their use is a trivial number. As was pointed out earlier, how many of those 1100 feed providers were actually paying members of the site, or would have been if the merger hadn't occurred? I'm sure it's not the full 1100, so the $33,000 is out the window right there, factor in those that already had paid memberships, prorate their membership $0.083/day from July 1st to their expiration date, and the number gets even lower for this year, although I will admit it goes up over time. The $33,000 number is just that, a number that can't be backed up with facts.

My feeds are down at Radio Reference and aren't coming back. Boston-EMS.com has it's feed back and ProvidenceFireScanner.com is live as of today and pending a new computer, will have the live feed up tomorrow. The Rhode Island Digital system is still available through ProScan, so those that want to listen can-the only people you've inconvenienced is your own customers, as they have to go different places now. I'm sure you'll get people to fill the feeds, but it will probably take a while. I can also guarantee you that you will not see a $30 renewal from me in October.

None of my live feed sites are for profit. The Boston EMS Feed was there for six years and I didn't want to inconvenience the visitors that have been loyal to that site. It doesn't mean that I wouldn't have promoted Radio Reference with links. Your customer base was safe.

[blantonl]

Guys, as I said previously, RadioReference is not requiring exclusivity - we just don't want to become an infrastructure provider for audio not delivered directly through us.

If you want to setup your own icecast / shoutcast server and broadcast from your infrastructure, that's fantastic. But if you want to imbed a RadioReference feed, streamed from RadioReference relays, on your site, then we won't allow anyone to do that for free.

As I indicated below, if you want to take your toys and run, that's fine and is your decision. If so, we're sorry to see you go.

Warm regards,

[K4IHS]

That sounds like "don't let the door hit you in ass" to me. I just checked... Fort Myers had 11 listeners and Lindsay's feed had 2. I don't think I fit into the RR business model... especially when I read the sentence about charging a small fee to stream to RR.

In the meantime... this thread pissed me off so much... I called the wife and had her pull the plug. The feeds on my personal pages will continue to run just fine. How long do you think it will take me to get all the links to RR off my web pages?

The next time a hurricane comes crashing into the Fort Myers area... give me a call RR. Maybe... we can work something out. Or... if you re-think your position... I'm still a paid member here on RR.

[blantonl]

Ralph,

Did you not read what I posted in my past two threads? I just told that we had no problem whatsoever if you wanted to stream to your own infrastructure and RR.

Let me retterate:

1) If you want to run your own audio server and stream from there in addition to RadioReference, that is fine.

2) If you want to imbed any stream coming from RadioReference in any Web page, we don't allow that at this time.

Are you blinded by your own anger and aggression that after I told you we had no problem with you doing what you want, you instead think I'm telling you to hit the road?

What is wrong with you? Do you now just refuse to listen? I don't get it....

[APSN556]

in July 2008, 2 medical helicopters crashed in Flagstaff killing 8 people. All in all, that incident drew 3,164 unique visitors to my scanner feed. Guess what... only 75 came directly from my site. The other 3,085 visitors were listening from Scan America. Yeah right, my mirrored feed REALLY had an effect...not quite.

[blantonl]

So now I figure out the crux of this whole issue.

We see this thread:

Do you host a feed here on RR?

WIth the following information posted:

Originally Posted by APSN556

If so, have you ever thought about taking the next step and embedding your feed into a personalized website? (....)

Right now for a limited time, I am offering to build a FREE site for the first 2 people that contact me. The site will be completely custom and built either to YOUR specifications (or mine if you'd rather) I guarantee an amazing final product. You will be responsible for paying hosting and domain (usually around $30 for a whole year) Your website will even come with custom email addresses! I'M am doing this for FREE because I am looking to add to my portfolio.

and...

Originally Posted by APSN556

The advantage is members of your community would go to your page instead of of RR. On your page, you can discuss community issues, have a forum, list audio clips of major incidents etc.

Great innovation and entrepreneurship there Chad. Build your portfolio of two Web sites for free, then charge money to other folks so they can build their own revenue generating platforms by circumventing what we've said before we don't want happening.

Ok... right.

Sorry Chad, but this is clearly and attempt by you to profit off of our platform. I'm not buying it and neither should the rest of the community.

I'm closing this thread, because it is a distraction to what we are trying to accomplish here. If any audio feed provider has any questions or concerns about this, please don't hesitate to email me directly at lindsay [at] radioreference.com.

Regardless of the negativity that you see here, we sincerely appreciate every feed providers efforts, and the community appreciates it. Almost every instance of complaints or blow-ups such as these tend to revolve around selfish and self-serving interests (other business models, competitors etc). If we were operating in a selfish and self-serving instance, we'd lock down everything and charge money for the feeds. Obviously, if we are providing a platform to allow anyone in the world to listen for free, we're providing a community oriented environment.

Thanks again,

Warm regards,