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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 08-06-2012, 4:35 PM
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Default Redundant Streaming to RR

Perhaps we're overlooking something because we're unable to find any information regarding this, but is it possible to have a redundant setup from which we stream from? In layman's terms: Could a user setup two computers (for redundancy) and stream a single feed. Perhaps, more likely, this would require a third computer (or server) to handle the receiving and then forwarding of the two computers. This type of configuration would allow for routine service work on each client without having to take the feed offline. Obviously, other considerations would need to be taken into account such as splitting the audio from the single scanner if that were the setup. Surely we're not the first to ask this question!
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Old 08-06-2012, 6:54 PM
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That would be awesome, could even have multiple people from and area stream the same thing and have software pick the best audio.

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Old 08-06-2012, 7:07 PM
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@dlettiere

We were not thinking of something quite that large or on that scale. What we originally described would probably be very minimal in terms of actual users. Due to the cost of implementing and maintaining the equipment, most people are not going to have the budget allowing multiple dedicated computers and/or servers.

What you have described is almost entirely different. Picking the best feed from a geographic area and only broadcasting it would require a highly robust system and programming.

The idea here is to have two clients. Client A is connected to a scanner (or multiple scanners for multiple feeds) and Client B is also connected to the same or different scanner(s) with the same broadcast. Then the server or relay computer accepts both feeds, choosing A by default, unless it is unavailable. If offline it would choose B and continue to broadcast to RR. It seems this could easily be achieved with the client/server broadcasting software already available. It's just a matter of incorporating the redundancy. Thoughts on how to do this is what we're searching for and what type of OS platform would be ideal.
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Old 08-06-2012, 7:13 PM
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I totally got your idea, but then my mind started running.

I think a lot of people who run feeds have extra computers around even if it is an old laptop if it has internet and audio its golden!

I like your idea, I hope we see it implemented.

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Old 08-06-2012, 7:21 PM
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On a side note.. we would love to see a product like ProScan, from Bob Aune, with this sort of capability, but we also understand this may be something beyond what he wishes to develop. ProScan is an excellent software piece with a lot of capability!
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Old 08-06-2012, 7:29 PM
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Sorry for multiple posts after another but rather than reinventing the wheel... Is this something that Icecast is capable of? We're not as familiar with it's capabilities.
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Old 08-06-2012, 11:04 PM
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You could always just have a second PC ready to go.

Disconnect the main one and connect the standby.

If you are fast RR may not even notice your feed went down.

I hear RR uses a version of Icecast to broadcast the feeds we provide.

Icecast can be set to automatically switch to a "fallback" stream but that would require RR to provide you with two feed mounts. I could see them doing this for paid feeds but I doubt free feeds will ever see it.
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Old 08-07-2012, 1:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bellingham_Scanner View Post
You could always just have a second PC ready to go.

Disconnect the main one and connect the standby.

If you are fast RR may not even notice your feed went down.

I hear RR uses a version of Icecast to broadcast the feeds we provide.

Icecast can be set to automatically switch to a "fallback" stream but that would require RR to provide you with two feed mounts. I could see them doing this for paid feeds but I doubt free feeds will ever see it.
Sorry but RR Live Audio does not approve alternate, backup or second feeds.
It is a waist of mounts, resources and not needed.

You can have a second computer with the feed info set & switch to the second computer.
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Old 08-07-2012, 1:40 PM
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Please read original posts before interjecting your thoughts. We do appreciate them but you would have noticed that OP is not requesting this service to be provided by RR. We're looking to do this ourselves as an in-house operation. The question was asked on whether an Icecast server (in-house) could be setup to do this and then relay the audio to RR's Icecast servers.
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Last edited by ScanTN; 08-07-2012 at 1:43 PM..
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Old 08-07-2012, 1:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScanTN View Post
Please read original posts before interjecting your thoughts. We do appreciate them but you would have noticed that OP is not requesting this service to be provided by RR. We're looking to do this ourselves as an in-house operation. The question was asked on whether an Icecast server (in-house) could be setup to do this and then relay the audio to RR's Icecast servers.
I think the feed admin should be able to inject his thoughts haha

Last edited by kma371; 08-07-2012 at 1:49 PM..
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Old 08-07-2012, 1:51 PM
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Our apologies. Tapatalk doesn't always show user's signatures and it had appeared as someone else without knowledge of the entire thread had just jumped in. Regarding the Feed Provider TOS, which are linked below, it does not mention anything in regards to redundant feeds. Please offer more detail as to why this would be a violation of the TOS.

Feed Provider Terms of Service - The RadioReference Wiki
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Old 08-07-2012, 4:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScanTN View Post
Sorry for multiple posts after another but rather than reinventing the wheel... Is this something that Icecast is capable of? We're not as familiar with it's capabilities.
As I eluded to before Icecast is capable of this, but as you see RR is not going to provide secondary mount points for fallback feeds.

You can always run your own Icecast server. I run my own right alongside the feed I send to RR.
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Old 08-07-2012, 4:44 PM
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@Bellingham_Scanner

So theoretically this will work. Setup our own in-house Icecast server and allow multiple mount points on it. It will then relay the audio feeds to RR. Broadcasting audio to the in-house Icecast server continues to be simple by still being able to use ProScan, Nicecast, etc. Is this correct?
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Old 08-07-2012, 5:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScanTN View Post
@Bellingham_Scanner

So theoretically this will work. Setup our own in-house Icecast server and allow multiple mount points on it. It will then relay the audio feeds to RR. Broadcasting audio to the in-house Icecast server continues to be simple by still being able to use ProScan, Nicecast, etc. Is this correct?
That would be the best way to do it, in-house.

Think of it in computer terms, if that helps. What you basically need is a "router" that will provide "network address translation (NAT)", except using the mountpoint as the "IP address".

So, in the same way a router will always display a single public IP address to the outside world, regardless of how many internal IP addresses are behind NAT, you need something similar for the primary and backup audio feeds. Two computers feeding identical streams to a third computer, which in turn feeds a single mountpoint to RR regardless of which computer, A or B, is actually providing the audio.

Now you just need to figure out how to capture both streams simultaneously, while ignoring the data from B until it no longer receives data from A, at which point it seamlessly switches sources and continues to push to RR without interruption. That would probably require a custom solution, unless one already exists.
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Old 08-07-2012, 5:26 PM
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Thanks for the input.

@Bellingham_Scanner
Another question pertaining to what you mentioned. You said you run an Icecast server alongside your feeds to RR. That's great but is it possible to take an Icecast mount (in this case it would be one of the in-house mounts) and feed it or stream it to the Icecast mounts at RR?
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Old 08-07-2012, 5:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScanTN View Post
@Bellingham_Scanner

So theoretically this will work. Setup our own in-house Icecast server and allow multiple mount points on it. It will then relay the audio feeds to RR. Broadcasting audio to the in-house Icecast server continues to be simple by still being able to use ProScan, Nicecast, etc. Is this correct?
In theory, but I am not sure if Icecast will relay to another Icecast server.

I would have to read through the doc's again, as it has been a long time since I actually setup my server and I have not even looked at it for a good six months or more, it just keeps chuggin' along.

You might want to just consider running Linux and Darkice then you will not have to really worry about shutting down for maintenance.

Last edited by Bellingham_Scanner; 08-07-2012 at 5:50 PM..
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Old 08-09-2012, 8:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bellingham_Scanner View Post
In theory, but I am not sure if Icecast will relay to another Icecast server.

I would have to read through the doc's again, as it has been a long time since I actually setup my server and I have not even looked at it for a good six months or more, it just keeps chuggin' along.

You might want to just consider running Linux and Darkice then you will not have to really worry about shutting down for maintenance.
Icecast servers can relay from another Icecast server (as well as SHOUTcast servers).

Another option would be to install the streaming software on both computers but only have one connected at a time (the Icecast server will only accept a connection from one streaming client per mount point). When you need to perform maintenance on the computer providing the feed you would stop the client on that machine and start up the client on the other machine. Note that everyone that's listening will be disconnected when the source computer changes but they'll be able to reconnect.

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Old 08-09-2012, 8:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bellingham_Scanner View Post
You might want to just consider running Linux and Darkice then you will not have to really worry about shutting down for maintenance.
Or use a Barix Instreamer to provide the audio (then there's no computer involved, just the little Instreamer box).
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Old 08-14-2012, 5:53 PM
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Geez man, just get a small-form-factor Intel Atom computer as a dedicated server and toss in an uninteruptible power supply (or if you are really serious, a true server with hot-swappable industrial grade hardware). The mess of connections and redundancies you are proposing will do nothing but introduce multiple points of failure and create an order of magnitude of more problems. Live streaming is a very finicky and easily disrupted service, and is not meant for multiple points of transmission unless you know what you are doing (and requires the requisite infrastructure to do so which RR or consumer grade software does not support.). At the end of the day, you are still sending a feed over one router and one internet connection. Remember, it's a hobby scanner feed, not a backup relay for NASA.
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Old 08-16-2012, 4:10 PM
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Even though it may be a hobby, Some of us geeks do think geek all the time.

I have 2 servers setup completely redundant for each other, for a business I run. I run an icecast server on each server, each are constantly checking the others health, if one goes down, the other picks up the feeds within 3 seconds.
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