why NOT make a scanner capable of LTR Passport/Net/Multinet?

[mr_hankey]

ok, why NOT make a scanner capable of LTR Passport?

or even include this protocol in a new scanner?

i read more and more each day how LTR is becoming very appealing to Public Safety agencies due to some of it's upgradable features (like those offered through Passport trunking: dynamic frequency updates, radio security features like ESN and encryption, inexpensive hardware)

the only reasons i can come up with that might explain why we haven't seen any Passport/Net/Multinet trunk-trackers is:

1) no market for it
2) patent issues???

has anyone heard otherwise from Uniden or GRE?

 

[INDY72]

SIMPLE: NO ONE has yet fully figured out how to track an LTR Passport or Multinet system.... It is being worked on.. but as of yet is still an enigma! Thats why.

 

[mr_hankey]

so how does the Motorola HT1250LS+ do it?

: )

 

[pro92b]

LTRTRUNK does track MultiNet but the Passport part is still not well understood. MultiNet is obsolete and the users on the few systems that exist are not happy with the performance. Several agencies have plans to migrate to Motorola or EDACS systems. There is essentially no market for a MultiNet scanner and the unique key for each system is a hurdle too. Passport has a very small market share as well although a few new systems are being deployed. The protocol is proprietary and I haven't seen any reference to Uniden having a Passport license.

Motorola is licensed to produce Passport capable transceivers.

 

[INDY72]

The Motorola Radio is specifically designed for doing it.. if you think you can just look at an actual radio and put it in a scanner your in for a BIG surprise! Now you could do a scanner for just LTR passport... lol or just LTR Mutlinet lol... and nothing else! But to make a scanner that not only cna trunk track Motorola VHF, UHF, 800, 900, and the future 700 MHz I's, II's, Hybrids, Both digital formats, EDACS analog, as well as LTR's four formats, and conventional analog and digital is a lot harder than it seems.

And yes there are four, actually five formats for LTR.
Analog- regular, passport, multinet, and combined systems.
Digital LTR, which E.F. Johnson is, or has developed for P-25 compatabilty....

Have not heard of any digital in use yet but EFJ is big time promoting a P-25 system,... that would mean a digital format!

But look at it like this you will see an LTR Passport/Multinet capable scanner long before you ever see a EDACS ProVoice capable one.

 

[loumaag]

Emphasis added by me:

...And yes there are four, actually five formats for LTR.
Analog- regular, passport, multinet, and combined systems.
Digital LTR, which E.F. Johnson is, or has developed for P-25 compatabilty....

Have not heard of any digital in use yet but EFJ is big time promoting a P-25 system,... that would mean a digital format!...

Umm, where do you see any of this in reference to P-25 capable LTR systems? Can you point out a link?

E.F. Johnson is a major supplier of P-25 equipment, and has contracts with several large entities to supply such equipment; however, they do not supply the system. A good example is South Dakota, the sole supplier of radio equipment for the SD State Motorola Smartzone ASTRO25 Trunking System is E.F. Johnson.

As a side note, I am not sure of this bit of information, but I believe E.F. Johnson only supplies VHF and UHF equipment. That would mean that LTR systems on 800MHz and above are using somebody else for an equipment supplier.

 

[cg]

http://www.efjohnson.com/products.asp

EFJ also has 800 & 900 MHz mobiles and portables that are available in several variations.
- P25/analog smartnet/smartzone motorola trunked & conventional
- Multinet II & conventional
- LTR, LTR-Net, Multinet & conventional

then I saw a new EFJ radio (Ascend) that may do Multinet, Moto & conventional all at once. It looked neat although I bet setting up the initial program for several systems and multi talkgroups must take a long time.

chris gordon
granby ct

 

[loumaag]

EFJ also has 800 & 900 MHz mobiles and portables that are available in several variations.

I guess I should have made myself more clear. I was refering to the LTR System (repeaters). I don't think they produce those in 800Mhz and above, hence my statment about those LTR systems being based on other equipment. But yes, they do produce mobiles and portables for 800 and above all with P25 capability too.

Actually having had a chance to look at a couple of the radios here in SD and talk to a couple of the users, they are not displeased with the performance of the radio equipment. They (the users) are somewhat less enthusiastic about the digital aspect of the system; however, that is wandering a bit from the topic and has been disussed at length elsewhere on the boards.

 

[INDY72]

Ummmm there is an 800 LTR system in MS.... the University of Mississippi's is listed as LTR Regular.... as of yet no one has confirmed it as active etc,... If I can arrange a trip up there with my 92 I will see if I can get any info.

 

[loumaag]

Ummmm there is an 800 LTR system in MS.... the University of Mississippi's is listed as LTR Regular.... as of yet no one has confirmed it as active etc,... If I can arrange a trip up there with my 92 I will see if I can get any info.

There are a lot of 800MHz LTR systems in use around the country. I remember trading posts with a guy a while back (like over a year) about that UM system. He couldn't find it then. I suspect it is another case of a plan gone down the tubes.

Just did a quick search and came up with the thread, forgot I had gotten into a discussion of searching the FCC database.

 

[INDY72]

Callsign:
WPJQ621
Licensee:
Radio Service:
YP
Status:
Active
Mobile:
Y
Attn:
DIRECTOR OF PHYS PLANT
Phone:
6012327051
Address:
PHYSICAL PLANT ELECT SERVICES
P O Box:
City, ST, Zip:
Auth:
N
Issue Date:
3/26/2003 8:47:35 AM
Expire Date:
9/6/2011
Printed:
3/27/2003 9:29:12 AM
Last Change:
1/27/2004 5:55:46 AM
Applicant:
G
Elig:
90.617
UNIVERSITY, MS 38677
Broadcast City, ST:
,
Parent Class Code:
Parent Station Ind:
Non-Parent Type:
FAC ID:
FRN:
0005409560
MISSISSIPPI, UNIVERSITY OF

Apparently it is not down the tubes yet.....
Will have to arrange a trip up there to check it out...

 

[AZ_RADIO]

Here is how Passport Works.


Each radio in a Passport system has its own unique ID (ESN Electronic Serial Number) and is programmed only with specific channel data.

Specific ID
HSID (Home System ID) and Adj System Home Channels.

Turn on Radio (Kenwood, Icom, Motorola and Vertex (Not very Good))

Radio affiliates (Logs In) With ESN.

Site then ACK's the radio and allows the radio to operate. When the radio comes in range of an Affiliate site or system the radio can use RSSI to establish the strongest signal and re-register onto the new site. The Passport Site controller tells the radio which frequency to use. Similar to a Motorola Smartzone system.

If the radio is out of range of the system the radio will not work at all. Not to mention lots of problems with registering all the time and data loss. I own a 5 site Passport / LTR system on VHF and use Passport only for my networked customers. I will be getting rid of all passport junk and will deploy the Smartlink system - LTR networking Much better and more reliable.

RW

 

[mr_hankey]

so what you're saying is an LTR "network" scanner (e.g., Multinet, Passport) wouldn't work because it couldn't dynamically receive network frequency changes?

if you don't have an "approved" ESN, you cannot receive frequency/tower updates, correct?

a scanner would have to somehow receive updates over the air, and that is not likely without being able to "log into" the network...

 

[EricCottrell]

Hello,

The ESN stuff prevents you from registering and transmitting on the system if the radio is not in the network controller database. The radio can be "stunned" and it will appear dead. Information is sent to all but a "stunned" radio does not act upon it.

For Passport there are two messages, one used during the idle burst and the other while the channel is busy that will give the band, radio network, site number of the site, and the registration frequencies of the site's neighbors.

There are not many Passport systems on VHF. Someone in Az should run LTRDump on the system before it switches over and send me the logs .

73 Eric

 

[ww7b]

LTR , Passport...etc..

Will there be a scanner with LTR / Passport ?

I can tell you I was out at APCO 2009 in Las Vegas.
I noticed that GRE was taking a survey of wants for a new scanner.
Passport and other LTRs was a box to check, I checked it.
At least they are looking at it, we will see.
WW7B

 

[INDY72]

If so thats an answer to a prayer.. When that pops out.. will mail one to a friend in the Natchez, MS area.. WEG

 

[WayneH]

They'll have to convince Trident to license it to them. Trident has said in the past they never would license the technology to any scanner manufacturer.

I'd love to see one though. It's becoming the dominant LTR protocol.

 

[RADIOGUY2002]

Possible solution

Possible solution, buy the ltr borad from the radio manfacture than use it, would that be techniqually covered? Just a random thought........Its not like its a big deal anymore. Nexedge, idas and mototrbo are the new things to be consider with.

 

[DaveNF2G]

There has been DOS software that tracks it for a few years already. What's the big deal with getting it into a scanner?

 

[N_Jay]

There has been DOS software that tracks it for a few years already. What's the big deal with getting it into a scanner?

I would guess the development effort, support costs, vs. market size.