marine vhf use

[teufler]

Since the FCC has dropped licensing for vhf marine use, have they also dropped the requirement of the radio actually used on waterways or one station so many miles from the waterway. Years ago the Lewis and Clark re-enactors were going up the Missouri River. They had chase cars but could not communicate if they were farther than so many miles from the River. Since the FCC has dropped a license requirement, as the marine channels just an expanded MIRS setup? Just trying to find out the rules now. Maybe that is a segment that I need to monitor.

 

[nd5y]

NO. VHF marine radio is not MURS.
All land stations must be licensed.
Mobile use on land is generally not allowed.
Only boats/ships which are not required by law to have a radio and don't travel internationally or communicate with foreign countries are exempt from ship station licensing.
See http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/index.htm?job=licensing&id=ship_stations for ship station licesning requirements.
See http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/index.htm?job=service_home&id=coast_stations for coast station and marine utility station info.
See http://wireless.fcc.gov/commoperators/index.htm?job=wncol for operator licensing requirements.

 

[mmckenna]

No.
The FCC didn't drop the licensing. What they did was go to "License by Rule". Same thing they did with FRS, CB, MURS, etc.
In simple term, License by rule means that if you follow the FCC rules that apply to the radio service, you are covered.
If you start working outside the rules, you are no longer covered under the "license by rule".

Marine VHF (Part 80) still has rules, regulations and requirements that need to be followed.
Paper license are not required for some users, but are still required for others. Land stations still require a paper license.

So, Marine VHF isn't an extension of MURS, or any other radio service.
You cannot use a marine VHF radio from land without a specific license allowing that.


None of this means that there are not people out there ignoring the rules and doing whatever they want. There are plenty of people that use marine VHF radios for car to car, hunting, business, etc. Not that it's legal.

Also, there are -some- marine VHF frequencies that are reused in certain areas by FCC Licensed LMR users. Completely legal -if- the license allows it and the license holder is following the rules.

 

[teufler]

No, I was not saying vhf marine was MURS, i WAS SAYING , WITH OPERATORS NOT REQUIRED TO GET A license, it would be like MURS. So, The FCC is not as merciful as it sounds. Also it appears the use requirements are pretty much the same, just a license is not required. Now this is how CB ended up. Who was it that said, doing the same and expecting different results.

 

[nd5y]

Marine radio is not like MURS. Operator licenses ARE required in most cases.

 

[k1agh]

Here in maine ive heard fishing boat captains use marine vhf to communicate with family on shore. Does that require a license to do?

 

[mmckenna]

Shore stations do. The fishing boat probably would depending on a number of factors.

* doesn't mean they actually get a license.

You can read up on the rules here. Follow the links, for more detailed info
FCC: Wireless Services: Ship Radio Stations: Licensing

 

[teufler]

In the past the U.S. required such licensing for radio operators as well as station licensing for the vessel. In 1996 the U.S. (FCC) did away with operator and station licensing for most recreational boaters when using some types of marine radios. While this action reduced the cost and PITA factor for most recreational boaters which was a good thing, it is arguable as to whether or not this change was in the best long term interests of the boating community.quoted from Marine Radio Regulations and Just a Bit of Common Sense
One of the posts recently talked about general use of the marine frequencies. So if boaters are not required to have a license, is it as honor system as to how the band allocation is used. Seems we have seen what radio "honor" systems have turned out like. With the proliferation of CCR's, what is to stop their use in the midwest or western states, or along way from water. FCC is not doing active monitoring, and since the station, without a license doesn't have ti identify, are the bands openfor Captain Ahab to contact Popeye now as they cruise down the highway or as they have a hunting and fishing party thats lost..

 

[mmckenna]

Yeah, it's the honor system. And we all know how well that works.
The rules are still there, though, and an illegal user can still be fined.
Some VHF marine frequencies are reused inland, but not all of them.
They are used on "navigable" waterways, lakes, rivers, etc, so not being close to the ocean doesn't really impact things. USCG does monitor some channels, and will warn/report illegal users.

But yeah, a lot of it is honor system. Truckers have used it quite a bit, so have hunters, most get away with it, but some have been caught. Many retailers sell the marine VHF radios right along side FRS/GMRS radios. To the uneducated, they don't look any different. All they see is wattage/distance claims and go from there.

 

[teufler]

wELL THE FCC HAD A SYSTEM THAT WAS NOT BROKEN, Why did they try to fix something that was already regulated and was in place. RR forums have had alot of talk about the Chinese Radios and their ability to navigate the airways unrestrained. It seems a space was created waiting for these radios. Crazier still, few have even mentioned this. I live near the Mississippi and Missouri Rivers and starting to monitor this segment, all I've come up with is barge traffic. Perfectly legal.

 

[mmckenna]

Yeah, FCC seems to like to do this. The seem to lack enforcement manpower. That lets things get out of control. When they get out of control bad enough they seem to drop the licensing.

 

[nd5y]

Licenses, regulations and laws don't prevent people from bending, breaking or ignoring the rules.

 

[teufler]

Well I am not attempting to start "the sky is falling", seems there are more loop holes than what the CCR's allow, meaning the FCC is aware of what they do, and maybe it will not be a problem in that many public safety agencies are going to digital and the ability to transmit where no man has transmitted before will not be a problem. I had know of , primarily truckers who had gone to maRINE VHF many years ago. Also the radios have been available from Walmart to hunting and fishing stores for along time. I think if you were away from lakes and rivers we might hear more traffic. I'm sure along the coast line, traffic is all water related, though it appears many don't need a license anymore, leading to calls of "Capt Ahab this is Popeye". I guess that is an acceptable call now. Traffic is going to a cell phone now, public safety routinely asks, can you 21. Many times this is departmental traffic, that goes on a system that is not monitored and not recorded. Now there is a movement to go after Clinton because she had information that was transmitted on private servers and no record of traffic was available. How is not what the police do, any different. Even encrypted traffic is recorded at the department, but private cells are not. They are using cells to go over activities related to what they are doing. Now departments can patch through private calls from private citizens , that are recorded because its radio to phone, but phone to phone from officers are not. So VHF Marine might be useable for non water related traffic with unlicensed users. The outcome could be a MIRS DEAL WITH 25 TO 30 WATTS INSTEAD OF 2 WATTS.

 

[DaveNF2G]

Like most regulatory agencies, the FCC is now dominated by attorneys instead of people with actual expertise in what is being regulated.

The 400+ lawyers in Congress write laws insisting that the FCC do certain things, and pass budgets that fail to provide sufficient funding. So, the Lawyer in Chief in the White House tells the FCC to bring its operations within the budget. The lawyers running the FCC cut costs in ways that seem administratively reasonable, but are not informed by technology or any sort of science (or any apparent knowledge of human behavior).

 

[robertmac]

But is there any reason to abuse the marine band when there are other services that can be used without the potential to interfere with licensed users?

 

[teufler]

No there is no reason. I reallly havn't heard any illegal traffic in years though away from waterways, the coast, the availability of equipment, and no license require, all lead up to questionable use.
Living next to the
mississipir river, I am sure non boat related traffic would be police by the barge owners and boaters on the river.

 

[S1deband1t]

None of this means that there are not people out there ignoring the rules and doing whatever they want. There are plenty of people that use marine VHF radios for car to car, hunting, business, etc. Not that it's legal.

....so I am not allowed to talk from my car while prepping my buddy's boat on the ocean to fishermen already out there???

 

[mmckenna]

....so I am not allowed to talk from my car while prepping my buddy's boat on the ocean to fishermen already out there???

According to the rules? No.

Sounds silly, but I guess they have to draw the line somewhere, or "Prepping my buddy's boat" would turn into any use including the trip to/from the gas station.....

FCC Part 80 rules are pretty clear on this. No use on land, unless you have the specific license.

Lots of other options, FRS, MURS, etc. There used to be a radio on the market that had Marine VHF and FRS in one radio.


And again, just because it is against the rules doesn't stop people from doing it all the time. It's the "honor system" and we know how that turns out.

 

[MidLimNet]

Overhere in Western Europe every Marine Radio transmits an ATIS signal identifiying every ship; it transmits the callsign. So Waterways Police can easily check if the Marine Transceiver is legally in use.

Wiki on ATIS: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_Transmitter_Identification_System_(marine)

Besides AIS i do also monitor ATIS signals in my region with DSCDecoder software, an example:
ATIS;(atis);from;9244049180 (PD9180) GRAVELAND 2318351_ EOS;15-11-29 17:09:56
The code 92440449180 reveals the callsign PD9180, a dutch registered inland ship.

With many Marine Radio frequencies in use illegal use would attract the attention of Skippers and Police.

 

[toastycookies]

....so I am not allowed to talk from my car while prepping my buddy's boat on the ocean to fishermen already out there???

you would need to acquire a license to do so.

in my area there are a couple local restaurants on shore that have marine vhf licenses so then can do takeout order over the radio.