**New Baltimore (City) System Discussion**

[ka3jjz]

Hmmm.. I just did a FCC search on 853.7375, 853.8750 and 853.9500 (these would be the rebanded versions of the current control channels, - 15 mhz) and found the first one still licensed to Nextel, and the other 2 are not found.

Mike

[mlevin]

For the Pro 96, the wiki mentions that it'll still work for a rebanded 3600 system. What about a rebanded 9600 system?

[ka3jjz]

Apart from reprogramming the new frequencies, it should pick up what it needs from the control channel - I think. At least that's how the newer trunkers would work.....73 Mike

[Dewey]

Originally Posted by ka3jjz

Apart from reprogramming the new frequencies, it should pick up what it needs from the control channel - I think. At least that's how the newer trunkers would work.....73 Mike

I no longer have the Pro-96, but didn't it have incorrect channel spacing in a couple of the bands? If so, that might hinder it's ability to follow the control channel. Just thinking out loud...

Dewey

[ocguard]

Originally Posted by AD9O

Matt,

You said the city is going to full 9600 P25. So the MOSCAD data is going away (or is there a new protocol that supports data)?

I also assume talkgroups will be renumbered (since they don't have to be base 16)?

Thanks for the new channel plan.

Tony

After a bit of research, the newest SCADA products by Motorola are supported on Astro v7 (which is the full 9600bps version).

[greeby]

I've had a Uniden 996XT running in our newsroom for the past 2 weeks with only control channels programmed and it works well for the new system. Downloaded the database from RR and programmed up with Proscan.

Baltimore city wanted 5K for a single radio package for our newsroom. I spent 600 at Scanmaster

Unless they turn on encryption on 12/1 I think I saved us 4500.00 per radio. With 2 radios in the radio newsroom and 2 in our tv newsroom that's a nice chunk of change.

Baltimore city provided all media outlets with radios last go around. Not this time.

[greeby]

Originally Posted by skyteam11

Hey Ron: Many thanks. You may be correct about the state thing. I just know that the TV station have to purchase the new radios because of the change. The city PIO has told us about this new change. Just have not been able to get the freq's

Hey Roy,

You should call your Director of Engineering. He can help.

[ocguard]

Originally Posted by greeby

I've had a Uniden 996XT running in our newsroom for the past 2 weeks with only control channels programmed and it works well for the new system. Downloaded the database from RR and programmed up with Proscan.

Baltimore city wanted 5K for a single radio package for our newsroom. I spent 600 at Scanmaster

Unless they turn on encryption on 12/1 I think I saved us 4500.00 per radio. With 2 radios in the radio newsroom and 2 in our tv newsroom that's a nice chunk of change.

Baltimore city provided all media outlets with radios last go around. Not this time.

If you downloaded what's in the RR database, you're listening to the current system.

[SkyPager]

I think the PIO may have misunderstood what Moto told him.. Checking the 800 TA database, (not available to the public) the base stations for Baltimore City wil be RE-BANDED June-August 2011 timeframe.

As we have about 14 days before this "change" Baltimore City should provide a written statement to the media people as to exactly what will be needed to ensure continued monitoring.

My source at Teltronic knows nothing of 700 MHz for the city. I have another source to check with.

[skyteam11]

Many thanks for the help with this problem. They are really trying to push us into buying these new XTL 2500 radios.
I have 1 996xt and that has been a good radio. I do have several 996t radios but still not sure on updating the software of the radio. ( Sorry it has not clecked yet). I used the bearcat USAD to program them but the latest software that I have been able to find was 2006. Any thoughts?

[ka3jjz]

The first thing to consider is whether the 996Ts have the most up to date firmware. If they don't these 2 links will help. It can't be stressed enough - don't shortcut any steps during the upgrade! Do everything in exactly the order specified.

BCD996TFirmwareUpdate < UnidenMan4 < TWiki

Firmware Upgrade - The RadioReference Wiki

The XTs are already rebanding capable, but they have had one or two upgrades, so you might want to look at that...

BCD996XTFirmwareUpdate < UnidenMan4 < TWiki

The UASD is badly outdated. You can move to FreeScan or BCTool (the recent rewrite does, I think, support rebanding). Both will work with the XT and T scanners, and FreeScan is freeware, but BCTool plus (with the RR web service) is paid software. They both should import your UASD files, but watch your quick key assignments!

ScanNow.org - The Home of FreeSCAN!

FreeScan User Guide - The RadioReference Wiki

bcTool

and assuming that when the city rebands, they'll use the standard table...(note that using the table will only be necessary if the city stays in a mixed mode system type - if they go to purely a P25 system, no tables are needed)

Software Support for Uniden Rebanding - The RadioReference Wiki

You will have your choice of either importing everything again (and let the web service cause the tables to be populated automatically in the software) or simply doing it manually (subtract 15 mhz from your current frequencies, change the site type and enter the tables with the data shown in the article above)

Best Regards...Mike

[skyteam11]

Mike: Thanks much. I am doing it now and so far it is working.

[dpm797]

For those interested; I believe the change they are referring to is Baltimore City going to an APCO Phase 1 compliant digital system simular to that of the Maryland Aviation Administration(BWI Airport). The current system is digital but not APCO phase 1 compliant. That means the frequencies will stay the same but the talk group Ids will change to the format that I mentioned with MAA system at BWI airport which the Fire Department there uses. It will be monitorable by the scanners mentioned; but may not be monoritable by those older mobile/portable radios from motorola because of the programming limitations of those models. The Motorola XTS 5000 portable radio can handle that programming.

[ocguard]

The timeline we've been given is that the new template will become active in late 2010/early 2011. Whether this will include transition to a 9600bps/Phase I compliant system is unknown and doubtful.The timeline also mentions all radios needing to be re-programmed in mid to late 2011. This is presumably the re-banding program. This is straight re-banding, one-for-one, as mandated, and does not include the addition of any 700mhz frequencies. Our PIO mis-understood; the changeover to all XTS5000s will ALLOW the city's radios to operate on 700mhz as needed. Baltimore County's upgraded system will presumably use 700mhz frequencies, and the state-wide systems will also use 700mhz frequencies.

For the record, as of now, about one half of our in-use portable radios are XTS3000s which are not compatible with the 9600bps upgrades. Also, none of our watch desk base station radios have been upgraded; they are still all Astro Spectras, which are also not 9600bps-ready.

Additional aspects of the upgrade involve the replacement of all 800mhz stubby portable antennas with 7" whip antennas. This change is apparently going to bring us back to the coverage that the original system's RFP provided when all radios had public safety speaker microphones.

As for the new template (found earlier in this thread), The "A" zone is the primary fire zone. Fire ground talk groups (FG1, FG2, FG3, and FG4) are assigned in numerical order as box assignments are dispatched. Rescue alarms will go to FG4 since it's located in the "C" zone, which is the primary EMS zone. A third EMS talk group has also been added, although it is not clear whether this talk group will be a part of day-to-day operations.

[gesucks]

Originally Posted by ocguard

Baltimore County's upgraded system will presumably use 700mhz frequencies, and the state-wide systems will also use 700mhz frequencies.

At this time there will be NO statewide 700MHz system. This system went out to bid, recommened to award system to Motorola, then the state pulled the RFQ. At this point there is no statewide system on the table. If and when the state decides to move forward again, the whole process will start again. It will be 2-3 years from that point thill they even award a contract.

[ResQguy]

Originally Posted by ocguard

I know the city is in the process of re-banding and upgrading to 9600bps P25. Many FD radios (anything other than an XTS5000) have to be replaced. These include all XTS3000s, XTS3500s, and AstroSpectra mobiles and base stations.

No 3500s in Baltimore.

[ocguard]

Originally Posted by ResQguy

No 3500s in Baltimore.

Not true. Had one assigned to me for the day as a loaner.

[gwgvfdpio]

The Baltimore City PD PIO claims that some, but not all, of the new TGs will be encrypted. He says a Motorola XTL2500 will be required to hear these. This is a list of the equipment that Motorola says will be required to hear all the TGs. For those who are more technically minded than me, it might provide a clue to whether or not we'll be able to use off-the-shelf scanners to monitor everything.

Ed, KR3E


1 1 M21URM9PW1AN XTL 2500 764-870MHZ, 10-35W $1,497.00 (transmit disabled)
1a 1 G806BD ENH: SOFTWARE ASTRO DIGITAL CAI $515.00
1b 1 W947AL ADD: RS232 & IV&D PACKET DATA
INTERFACE $200.00
1c 1 G66AF ADD: DASH MOUNT, NO CONTROL HEAD $125.00
1f 1 G89AA ADD: NO ANTENNA NEEDED - -
1g 1 G51AR ENH: SOFTWARE SMARTZONE/SINGLETONE $975.00
1h 1 G444AA ADD: CONTROL HEAD SOFTWARE - -
1i 1 G442AA ADD: XTL2500 CONTROL HEAD $292.00
1k 1 G361AE ENH: ASTRO PROJECT 25 TRUNKING
SOFTWARE $300.00
1l 1 G996AE ENH: OVER THE AIR PROGRAMMING $100.00
1m 1 G91AA ADD: CONTROL STATION POWER SUPPLY $269.00
1n 1 W665BE ADD: CONTROL STATION OPERATION $70.00
2 375 SVC03SVC0104D INFRASTRUCTURE INSTALL $375.00
(Notes)Template Generation, Programming and Configuration of XTL2500 base station
3 1 HSN4038A SPKR. 7.5 W REMOTE $60.50
4 1 HLN6042A TRAY BASE SPECTRA $77.00
5 1 RAF4001AMB ANT $28.00 $28.00

[ocguard]

Originally Posted by gwgvfdpio

The Baltimore City PD PIO claims that some, but not all, of the new TGs will be encrypted. He says a Motorola XTL2500 will be required to hear these. This is a list of the equipment that Motorola says will be required to hear all the TGs. For those who are more technically minded than me, it might provide a clue to whether or not we'll be able to use off-the-shelf scanners to monitor everything.

Anything that an XTS/XTL2500 can operate with, a commercial scanner can also monitor (with the exception of encryption). There is no question that a modern digital trunktracker will be able to handle the city's system, before and after re-tuning.

[maus92]

Originally Posted by gesucks

At this time there will be NO statewide 700MHz system. This system went out to bid, recommened to award system to Motorola, then the state pulled the RFQ. At this point there is no statewide system on the table. If and when the state decides to move forward again, the whole process will start again. It will be 2-3 years from that point thill they even award a contract.

BPW just signed with Motorola for a 300M+ contract to build out the system, despite ARINC's ongoing contract challenge.

Despite pending protest, $345 million communication contract approved