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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 08-06-2012, 6:18 PM
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Default To the other Mike

I guess thanks for the really bad news re changes of control freq. Why can't I just manually insert the other 14 possible ones or more if found? Pat
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Old 08-06-2012, 6:36 PM
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You need to understand a bit about how trunking works and how rebanding affects it.

In a nutshell, what happens when a trunktracker is trunking a Motorola system, it's using a chart of channel numbers that contains base frequencies. A mathematical formula using base frequencies and offsets is used to determine the next available frequency.

Unfortunately rebanding throws a monkey wrench in the works - a whole new set of Motorola channel numbers is used. I suspect that the 96 and 2096 may have the channel numbers, but lack the ability to perform the calculation properly in such cases, which is why the new custom tables are required. What will likely happen in such cases is that the calculation will come up with an invalid frequency for the new channel number. This is a VERY simplified explanation, but it should suffice...

You can do this yourself, once you get over the hump of having to install a USB cable and driver for your PC. Either software's trial period is more than sufficient to get the changes as documented in the wiki done, and the changes in both are pretty simple. Perhaps someone here can perform that for you...Mike
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Last edited by ka3jjz; 08-06-2012 at 6:39 PM..
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Old 08-06-2012, 6:57 PM
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Pepper. I'm going to put the remainder of the frequencies in my 96, and my PSR-500.
I'll let you know if I start missing parts of conversations, and you can do the same for me, since we live so close together.
If worse comes to worse, we'll get together at a bar...have 20 beers and then program the tables with my laptop and cable. By the time we're done, we'll be picking up stuff when nobody's even talking
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Old 08-06-2012, 7:27 PM
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Definately get the data cable and the correct software for your scanner. if its a RS, the data cable and Win96 will become very useful and will pay for itself. Even a paid membership on here to grab the database directly via Win96 will help especially if you decide to enter in other agencies/counties.
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Old 08-06-2012, 8:10 PM
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Thumbs up Thanks All!

My BC296D suddenly stopped working recently on the HoCo trunk. I was upset and perplexed. I was totally unaware of rebanding. This site/forum and this thread was invaluable to me to understand what was up and how I needed to rectify it! It wasn't for the faint of heart, but I managed to do a reprogram/ firmware update and am hapily scanning the channels again...Thanks so much for all the helpful links/info provided here!!

BTW: The web feed to live audio for Howard is still not yet rectified -- it has been silent several days now. I use that on my cell phone and really miss it when away from the Uniden scanner. Perhaps the provider will find your info helpful too.

Thanks again all!

73 de Chris, N3CS
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Old 08-06-2012, 8:18 PM
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I've emailed the provider and PM'd him on several occasions in the past (on another topic) and he hasn't responded.

Mystery.
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Old 08-06-2012, 8:26 PM
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Default Wunderbar!

Hey, Baybum Mike. Fabulous idea. How about Hooters and no one will see us transferring rebanded stuff via your laptop? Is that 20 beers for just you or both of us? Homeland Security does NOT approve of this message. Pat p.s. I'll try same with inputting the other 14 freqs Mark shows.
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Old 08-07-2012, 12:29 PM
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I put all of the new frequencies in my Uniden scanner, and it won't track. It still however decodes the signal, just all out of whack. I think after doing a few days of research, I liked the PSR-800 over the the Radio Shack version. So I bit the bullet and ordered one after my conversations with Mark.

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Old 08-07-2012, 7:34 PM
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Hey Mike in Bowie...as always, lots of good info in your posts.
I put in the new CC last Saturday. I put the rest of the new freqs in Sunday.
I'm not sure I understand how I might miss parts of a conversation just because they switch cc's?
They switched cc's with the reband and I didn't have to do anything but enter the new freq, and I'm not missing anything. Did this with the Pro-96 and the PSR-500


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Old 08-07-2012, 8:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baybum View Post
I've emailed the provider and PM'd him on several occasions in the past (on another topic) and he hasn't responded.

Mystery.
Just checked his profile--hasn't been on for quite some time--hope he's OK.
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Old 08-07-2012, 8:48 PM
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I may know who it is, or I may not. I will send him a text message and remind him it needs to be updated.

Mark
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Old 08-07-2012, 9:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baybum View Post
Hey Mike in Bowie...as always, lots of good info in your posts.
I put in the new CC last Saturday. I put the rest of the new freqs in Sunday.
I'm not sure I understand how I might miss parts of a conversation just because they switch cc's?
They switched cc's with the reband and I didn't have to do anything but enter the new freq, and I'm not missing anything. Did this with the Pro-96 and the PSR-500


Mike
I'm not up on how the system allocates conversations, but it has nothing to do with switching CCs.

It just so happens that most freqs that have a '5' in the 4th decimal position is likely to already be in the channel table that most scanners will use for the calculations. There's only 1 frequency that doesn't qualify - and if it isn't used much you might not notice it at all.

If we examine the freq table as it is in the database, you will find that all of the post rebanded freqs fall into the '5' in the 4th decimal rule. But there's one - 867.80 - that fails the test on both sides - it's not a rebanded frequency, and it has a zero in the 4th decimal.

Without seeing a detailed UniTrunker analysis, chances are that this frequency has been or will shortly be taken out of service. It's traffic has likely been shifted to the rebanded plan, and it may well be there because the sysops haven't dropped that transmitter's frequency yet.

What would happen if you didn't put in all the channels, is that whatever CC is being used now, when it changes, you would hear nothing (of course). With all the channels programmed, I suspect you would have little or no issues, even w/out putting the table in. However keep in mind that eventually that 867.80 must also be dropped to 852.80 - and when that happens, depending on how the conversations are distributed as it goes from freq to freq, you will lose it if it happens to land there without the use of the custom table. If however they decide to abandon 867.80 completely, you'd have lost nothing, even with the custom table in place.

Personally I always allocate my trunk systems as CC Only - this forces the scanner to calculate the next voice frequency, wherever it happens to go. With the custom table in place, you would have no issues in tracking a conversation.

Remember CCs will rotate on a pre determined schedule (which varies) to relieve the strain on a transmitter. This sort of application is what hams refer to as a 'full duty cycle' - it's on, full power, all day. Even a commercial transmitter would fail eventually if it wasn't rotated out of sequence from time to time.

Mike
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Last edited by ka3jjz; 08-07-2012 at 9:04 PM..
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 08-07-2012, 9:31 PM
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Here's where things get a little tricky. One frequency - 861.5375 - is in the designated Guard Band, which is between 861 and 862 Mhz. 862.5375 and 863.7875 will need to either be vacated or rebanded, along with 867.80. The last 2 channels are shown as alternate CCs.

Therefore if in the next few days, if the CC never changes to these freqs, it's a fairly safe assumption that these freqs have been vacated (they are in an area NexHell is supposed to have exclusively). A little searching of the FCC db would be in order to see what Howard has said they will do with the rebanded versions of these 2 frequencies, if any. The 861 Mhz freq is OK where it is, although it is in a shared area (much like things were before rebanding...)

This is all laid out in the Rebanding article in the wiki, for those that are wondering how I came up with that analysis.

Mike
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Last edited by ka3jjz; 08-07-2012 at 9:34 PM..
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 08-08-2012, 7:15 AM
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Mike,

I am not 100% sure, but when the cc was 868.0625, I can't remember a time when it was down for more than a couple hours max. It seemed like that would only happen once in a blue moon. My pro-96 only had the one cc programmed in, I never bothered adding anything else, and it worked for years without any signifigant interruption. If I was a betting man, I'd say they don't rotate them unless there is an issue or other failure, I assume that is a calculated risk.

Mark
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Old 08-08-2012, 7:47 AM
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Yeah that could turn into a pretty big issue. Wonder why they don't rotate like other systems do? I guess we'll never know...Mike
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 08-09-2012, 1:25 AM
   
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OK, as my screen name implies I am technically challenged! I have a Radio Shack Pro 106 trunk tracker and I get nothing! What do need to do?? I am really interested in Howard County North District Police Dispatch, Souther District PD Dispatch, Fire Dispatch Alpha 1, Fire Opts Alpha 2, And Fire Ground Opts Bravo 1.

Anyone here that can help me?
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Old 08-09-2012, 1:08 PM
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Notechie,

I am not 100% sure about the 106, if it would be easier to use software, or manual. I would assume that the software would make like 100 times easier. I included a link to the custom rebanding tables that you can use to do the re-program. Check out the two links below for specific info on the pro-106. I am sure someone else will chime in on the control channel only option as well. If I had one, I could probably offer some more useful information.

Pro-106 - The RadioReference Wiki

Custom Band Plan(s) for Rebanded Systems

Mark
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Old 08-09-2012, 1:09 PM
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I'm not up on the object oriented scanners, but I think I can get you started in the right direction. Before I go forward, keep in mind that anything blue is a link of some kind...

a. This hobby (just like any technical hobby) is full of what appears to be lots of obscure terminology. It's important to not get overwhelmed with this - we have an online glossary that can help you over the hump...

Category:RR Glossary - The RadioReference Wiki

b. To be able to understand what and how to program a trunked system like Howard's, you need to understand a bit about how trunking works. This PDF file is an excellent place to start...

http://wiki.radioreference.com/image...escription.pdf

c. Some folks have found the Easier to Read manuals to be a better read than the RS one. Here's the one for the 106...

Easier to Read Pro-106/197/PSR500/600 Digital Scanner Manual

d. You will need to get a USB-serial cable to connect your PC to the scanner so you can use software to program it (which I'll get to in a minute). Both the GRE and RS models can be used, and this article lists the model numbers, as well as how to use Windows Device Manager to diagnose issues

Connecting scanners via USB - The RadioReference Wiki

e. There are 3 packages (unfortunately no freeware) that work with this scanner- ARC500, PSREdit500 and Win500. We have user guides for ARC500 and Win500, along with the links for the software here...

Object Oriented Scanner Software - The RadioReference Wiki

f. Finally you can get data one of two ways, basically - someone sends you a file (it's important to know which package you're using), or you can purchase a premium subscription. This will allow you to download data from our database and set the required tables automatically...

Premium Subscription Information Page

All 3 packages support this functionality...

I have a feeling I should turn this into another wiki article - it's likely to be needed again...

HTH...Mike
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Last edited by ka3jjz; 08-09-2012 at 1:11 PM..
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 08-09-2012, 2:04 PM
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HCDFRS IT is aware that the live audio is down - I didn't know that so many people listened to it!

On a side note, does anyone know how I can manually reprogram a BC785D with the new HoCo control channels? It's not the official feed, just my personal scanner.

Thanks!
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Old 08-09-2012, 3:02 PM
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You should be able to just enter all the new frequencies - but you really won't be able to reband, since the 785 doesn't support it.

This programming shortcut should help;

Programming Shortcut BC785D - The RadioReference Wiki

HTH...Mike
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