Patuxent River NAS

[j333_76484]

Folks, I have put my foot in my mouth and volunteered to update the NAS Patuxent River WIKI page as found here:
http://wiki.radioreference.com/index..._River_Complex

For the past couple of weeks I have been trying to reorganize my scanners to better be able to focus on this and it has been a bear. I live next door to PAX and can hear groundside and find it can be very confusing to try to properly identify freqs as PAX seems to Simulcast on many freqs.

So what I thought I would do is to divide PAX up into various groups one being Air Traffic Control as seen on the Wiki currently, and focus on the specific groups as opposed to trying to focus on everything all the time. I figured I would take it one step at a time, focus on a particular group of similarly used freqs then add a new set of similarly used freqs and focus on that one for a while.

I figured this would likely be best done with the assistance of anyone who may be willing to offer assistance so I would start a dedicated thread for the project. I figure start on the obvious stuff first then gradually move on to the freqs that are harder to identify their use.

If anyone could offer ther ears and any input as we move along with this project I am sure the final result will be a very fine reference tool for others to use.

[j333_76484]

The WIKI, as it appears 02/13/07, only has the NAS Patuxent River VHF & UHF Air traffic control freqs. I know there are more freqs like the ADVISORY, BAYWATCH & ECHO CONTROL freqs but I though we could actually put those under a separate table possibly entitled "AREAS" or something to that effect. We'll worry about that after making some progress with this table.

At this point in the game, my intention is to focus on the freqs currently listed on the WIKI to confirm that the TAGS on the freqs at this point actually fit the freqs properly. I have already been working toward this for the past few weeks and am very comfortable with the tags at this point but figured it wise to put these out publicly and let anyone else offer any input they may so choose to as my understanding of a freqs use might not be exactly the same as others and I did not want to put this list up and have it be considered 100% accurate without letting others offer their input so things can be discussed openly .

I do have Button numbers and other "descriptive" items we can add to these freqs and will be putting them up as time permits. But at this point I have not personnaly confirmed enough BTN numbers to worry about putting them up yet.

Anywho, if anybody can help with this it would be greatly appreciated.

[TinEar]

I've got to see the 305.2 Approach freq on that initial list Jeff. Nice start - easy to read and I agree with your approach to "chunk" them into groups of freqs that serve the same general function. For instance, that list you've got up now corresponds with what you would (should?) find in Airnav for Pax.

One of the problems once you get beyond the current list, along with the Advisory/BayWatch grouping, is going to be that you're probably the only one that can hear them. The beauty of your location though is that by having the ability to hear all the ground transmissions, it is much easier to slap an ID on many activities. Hearing just one side of the conversation makes it very difficult to firmly identify many functions when there are so many different airborne platforms - some of them changing regularly - at Pax.

[scansomd]

Jeff,

As you know I live close by the base as well. I am not always around to help monitor (Darn work!) but I will help out whenever I can.

[j333_76484]

Originally Posted by TinEar

I've got to see the 305.2 Approach freq on that initial list Jeff. Nice start - easy to read and I agree with your approach to "chunk" them into groups of freqs that serve the same general function. For instance, that list you've got up now corresponds with what you would (should?) find in Airnav for Pax.

One of the problems once you get beyond the current list, along with the Advisory/BayWatch grouping, is going to be that you're probably the only one that can hear them. The beauty of your location though is that by having the ability to hear all the ground transmissions, it is much easier to slap an ID on many activities. Hearing just one side of the conversation makes it very difficult to firmly identify many functions when there are so many different airborne platforms - some of them changing regularly - at Pax.

Tinear, The answer to the first part of your thoughts goes hand in hand with the 2nd part. I find it extremly complicated to ID some of this stuff simply because I do hear so much. PAX is "VERY PRONE" to using quite a few freqs as almost MULTIPURPOSE freqs. Re the 305.2. The only reason that is not there is because when "I" hear groundside. It's Advisory who answers them most often. So I consider that one questionable at this time. Great you brought it up and that is what this is all about. I actually have that freq grouped in the the advisory freqs right now and figured we would work that soon enough. But trust me. I do hear aircraft calling approach but most often the person answering IDs as ADVISORY. Yes, it throws me as well thats why in my files I have question marks all over this freq.

But PAX has a tendency of passing freqs off real fast. I often hear things on an approach freq like Stand By for Tower. They tell an aircraft to stay on a freq and then a different controller will pop up. Aggrivating as heck from my side. Makes me want to call them and fuss at them.

But I agree that freq for all intents and purposes shoulod be there but as I think when the time comes there might be more discussion on it so I chose, at this time, to group it with the Advisory Freqs. Another reason I did not want to jump the gun on that one is because I have a recent copy of the RADAR AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL procedures and it is listed as ADVISORY. So for the time being I'll keep it in the next grouping I almost have ready to put up and we will gladly hit this one with some good discussion at that time.

[j333_76484]

Originally Posted by scansomd

Jeff,

As you know I live close by the base as well. I am not always around to help monitor (Darn work!) but I will help out whenever I can.

If I am not mistaken I think you told me on the phone you interest in the hobby was primarily in ground based comms. I do have a list of FM freqs we will need to confirm I can go ahead and post. Since you are probably a tad closer to the base than I and are likely much better set up for FM comms this might be up your alley.

There are not going to be many others who can help with these so if you want to start them early I will go ahead and post a list here but won't put them up on the WIKI quite yet.

Here is what I have so far, all in FM Mode.

138.975 - PATUXENT TOWER (VEHICLE TRAFFIC)
139.5 - PUBLIC WORKS - TRANSPORTATION
143.725 - HOT REFUEILING PITS (could use better ID on that one but that is best I have at this point.
451.8 - IAP. ( I don't know the name of the company. Just the intitals. They took over for Johnson Controls doing base facilities oriented maintenance.
138.625 - LINE/MAINT (suspect USN TPS but unconfirmed since 1/1/07)
139.525 - LINE/MAINT (Suspect STRIKE but unconfirmed since 1/1/07)
140.925 - Used but I have not been able to pull enough off of to even develope a suspicion other than possible LINE/MIANT use
140.075 - Old Ground Electronics Maint Freq. I catch very weak comms sporidically. So weak I am not even sure from PAX.

I do have a few other FM freqs I am working but have not been able to pull enough out of to even suspect PAX related as yet. When/ if I do develop that suspicion I will post.

BTW. We spoke about 140.05 a few weeks back. That freq has been encrpted ever since I first caught it. I did hear refernces to UAV work so I suspect it is Webster Field Related

[TinEar]

"IAP Worldwide Services Inc. in Irmo, S.C., is paying Glendale-based Johnson Controls $260 million for Johnson Controls World Services Inc."

I tossed that up just to answer your question about who bought Johnson Controls. So...IAP is good enough.

I see what you mean about the 305.2. I know the F-16s and some A-10s always make that their first stop when handed off from ZDC and I've heard them call "Approach" and "Advisory" and even "BayWatch" on that freq. I guess all they really know is that's where they have to check in when arriving at Pax and that's what they do. It apparently confuses them also when it comes to which name to use once there. I've labeled it "Approach" since that's the function I always hear. Nevertheless, waiting until the picture is established for the whole complex makes lots of sense. From what you're describing, some of it will come down to just pulling out your best guess of how a freq is used.

[j333_76484]

Originally Posted by TinEar

"IAP Worldwide Services Inc. in Irmo, S.C., is paying Glendale-based Johnson Controls $260 million for Johnson Controls World Services Inc."

I tossed that up just to answer your question about who bought Johnson Controls. So...IAP is good enough.

I see what you mean about the 305.2. I know the F-16s and some A-10s always make that their first stop when handed off from ZDC and I've heard them call "Approach" and "Advisory" and even "BayWatch" on that freq. I guess all they really know is that's where they have to check in when arriving at Pax and that's what they do. It apparently confuses them also when it comes to which name to use once there. I've labeled it "Approach" since that's the function I always hear. Nevertheless, waiting until the picture is established for the whole complex makes lots of sense. From what you're describing, some of it will come down to just pulling out your best guess of how a freq is used.

Thanks for the IAP. Takes care of that. We will have to add some sort of BASE FACILITIES note when we get to it.

Re the 305.2 and similar freqs. I agree we will probably not be able to come up with a single tag like APPROACH or ADVISORY. Maybe we can come up with a footnote type of deal drawing the readers attention to the bottom of the page or another page altogether that can better describe some of these MultiUse kind of freqs.

[j333_76484]

scansomd

Ok buddy you asked for it. :-) I have a couple more FM freqs for you I was able to associate with PAX with resonable certainty. I am trying to not feed you anything unless I delelope a resonable suspicion it is PAX related so we can keep things focused. I will still be working on these freqs over time as well but don't really have a scanner dedicated to just these FM freqs quite yet like I do with the current ATC list already up.

But to add the FM List:

142.800000 I had this in AM mode so the comms were shotty but I was able to make out "WATERBUG". I suspect LINE/MAINT FREQ. I have switched to FM and will continue to record.

140.10000 FM This one is likely going to be hard. Comms were weak but I had mutiple players, 587, 589, 777 and LAB. There appeared to be a boat envolved and references were made to moving postion to the Northern Areas. Also references made to BUOYS located off the stern. Lots of flight test related acronyms being kicked about so I have no idea what the testing was about.

[j333_76484]

OK. I am sitting here reviewing my audio on the ATC freqs currently up on the WIKI. I am going to take these jokers freq by freq and briefly touch on what I hear and add any additional comments. I am not going to get into logging, just a brief overall synopsis of what the freq is used for. Once having done that, if the common sense approach appears to be to leave the tag as is or to consider changing it we can use this as the means to open up the floor for discussion. I welcome any commentary at all even though most of these freqs are very well known freqs and we could in all likelihood take the easy way out and leave them as they are. But by focusing on these "easy" freqs I think we can easily establish a practice of discussing things that will carry over to when we start trying to tackle the hard to nail stuff.

For this post I intend to stick with the VHF stuff as I am sure the post will be long.

Also, to just keep things on track, At this point in the game I am not worrying too much about looking for things like BUTTON numbers, simulcast freqs, or adding allot of detail to the freqs, I think that will be much better done once the freqs are properly identified.

120.050000 - PATUXENT APPROACH
I had over 300 separate audio clips recorded on the freq today. I listened to every one of them. From the audio today all transmissions from Aircraft were to PATUXENT APPROACH and were responded to by PATUXENT APPROACH. From todays audio I heard nothing to make me suspect that the freq was not used by PATUXENT APPROACH.

120.600000 - PATUXENT GROUND
I had respectable number of audio clips to/from PATUXENT GROUND. In the past I have head some clearance information being passed on this freq but it does not happen often enough, in my opinion to bother noting it.Plus I think that is somewhat common for most ground freqs at most bases anyway. Plus this information is generally passed to an aircraft sitting on the ground so the majority of listeners are not likely to hear this anyway.

121.000000 - PATUXENT APPROACH/DEPARTURE CONTROL
Most of the Comms I heard today were from PATUXENT APPROACH. But the vast majority of the information passed was related to CAMBRIDGE & SALISBURY. The way I see it for our purposes at this time the PATUXENT APPROACH ID is still well suited and maybe later we can add information as to used as well for CAMBRIDGE/SALISBURY. As for the DEPARTURE CONTROL part of the tag. The reason I have that there is because most often PAX will tell an aircraft to go to this freq or 250.3 for DEPARTURE CONTROL. PATUXENT APPROACH is the CALLSIGN of the controller that answers but the information passed is generally departure related. Hence the ID.

123.700000 - PATUXENT TOWER
Numerous audio clips, all as best I could tell to/from PATUXENT TOWER. One thing worth noting here, that could quite possibly be worth consideration for including into this ATC list is I caught comms from TOWER to an Aircraft advising PADDLES is on 387.9. I used to have this freq identified as FCLP or FIELD CARRIER LANDING PRACTICE but it is another of those freqs whose usage ‘appears’ to change from day to day. I do have the 387.9 freq in another scanner and will be watching it closely for consideration of being included in this ATC list.
Back to 123.700000. This freq appears to be simulcast with other freqs, I suspect approach and/or ground as I heard several times on this freq the controller would come up and advise “contact tower”. I did not hear the response from the aircraft in these instances so am assuming the 123.7 is being simulcast periodically with other freqs other than TOWER freqs. I don’t think this is enough to bother altering the freq tags we currently have but we can note later what freqs are being simulcast with this.
But overall after reviewing all the audio I did not pick up anything that makes me think any alterations to this freqs current ID are need at this time.

127.950000 - PATUXENT APPROACH
I had a good 20-30 audio clips on this freq today, Everything readable was from aircraft calling PATUXENT APPROACH for information regarding SALISBURY. There were only a few instances where I heard groundside. I guess there is a remote transmitter at Salisbury with another here at PAX to be used depending on the approach path of the Aircraft being used. Total guess on my part there.
I think for our purposes at this time we are safe in keeping the PATUXENT APPRAOCH tag and can revisit later to doctor the freq up by adding some additional commentary about the details of the SALISBURY usage. But PATUXENT APPROACH is PATUXENT APPROACH.

133.900000 - WASHINGTON CENTER
I got to be honest on this one and say I did not record on it. It is just too obvious. It is WASHINGTON CENTER. I think later it would be appropriate to add some detail about it’s use for OFF HOURS APP?DEP for PAX. If I were to have unlocked this puppy and 281.4 today I would likely have not heard anything else. 

135.025000 - PATUXENT APPROACH
This one is going to be worth addtional attention. Today, the only comms I had on it were of an aircraft working with a pace truck running up and down the inactive conducting some flight test. But, the pace truck did call tower and ask for a discrete and this was the freq given. TOWER did advise that if an Aircraft was inbound IFR that they would need the freq back temporarily and will give 5 minutes notice. Pretty sure our PATUXENT APPROACH tag will suffice for now but would like to have actually used for that purpose today and unfortunately it was not so I am not willing to consider or tag solid as yet. I will keep this in the rotation.

135.200000 - PATUXENT CLEARANCE DELIVERY
Numerous clips here. Vast majority were to/from PATUXENT CLEARANCE DELIVERY. Every once in a while I would hear groundside ID as TOWER or GROUND but that is not uncommon to hear at PAX. QUITE often they will just hand the C/D freq over to TOWER or GROUND when they are already working with an Aircraft. This is one of the things that can make listening to groundside a tad confusing at times. I don’t think this is entirely uncommon among bases to do this so I don’t think this warrants any change in our current tag.

To recap here.
From my point of view the following freqs appear to be tagged in such a way that fit their use. IMHO. Additional details can/will be added at a later date but I think it important at this point to at least have the frequencies up on the WIKI and tagged. I think we have met that goal but of course anything I have expressed my opinion on is exactly that, ‘my opinion’, and I welcome any thoughts regarding the tags we currently have on these. These freqs are now being removed from my scanners rotation:

120.050000 - PATUXENT APPROACH
120.600000 - PATUXENT GROUND
121.000000 - PATUXENT APPROACH/DEPARTURE CONTROL
123.700000 - PATUXENT TOWER
127.950000 - PATUXENT APPROACH
133.900000 - WASHINGTON CENTER
135.200000 - PATUXENT CLEARANCE DELIVERY


This one I think will be a no brainer but I heard nothing from todays comms to directly associate it as being used as a PATUXENT APPROACH freq so I will continue to monitor it.:

135.025000 - PATUXENT APPROACH

OK for the following 2 freqs I have skipped these for today as I will post a separate post regarding these. Mainly because my knowledge off FSS freqs is severely weak and I think some focus discussion about these 2 will not only benefit me but will likely end up putting these 2 freqs up for consideration on an ID change after all is said and done. But I want to watch these for a bit and take a few notes and develop a better understanding of what I hear from groundside before really getting into the nuts & bolts on these.

117.600000 - LEESBURG RDO
122.100000 - LEESBURG RDO

Whew. OK Believe it or not it took me just at 4 hours to review the audio from just this small handful of freqs and note my thoughts. UMMMMM I think we will save the UHF for another day.

[j333_76484]

OK I made some time to knock out the UHF stuff simply because I did not want to have to weed through 2 days worth of audio for these.

250.300000 - PATUXENT APPROACH/DEPARTURE CONTROL
Numerous audio clips. Most comms from groundside were from PATUXENT APPROACH. And were APRROACH related comms. But I did have several Aircraft call PATUXENT DEPARTURE for departure related purposes. Generally the person groundside who answers, does answer as PATUXENT APPROACH but it’s generally the same voices that I hear on PATUXENT APPROACH. So far our purposes I think this tag is good for now.
This one is another aggravating freq to ID from groundside a they Simulcast on the freq and I hear PATUXENT APPROACH directing VHF Traffic in/out of Salisbury. But it is still is used for traffic in/out of PAX though.

250.850000 - PATUXENT APPROACH
Numerous comms to/from PATUXENT APPROACH. Some of the information passed was actually to/from aircraft working the VHF side of the freq and were directly related to aircraft working predominately Salisbury with a small amount of aircraft working their way into/out of St. Mary’s Airport. But PATUXENT APPROACH was always on the groundside so the current tag appears to hold true just fine for now.

276.200000 - PATUXENT ATIS
Obvious one. Yes it is good for PAX ATIS for those of you who are unable to hear it. Interesting note here. It is an automated repeating transmission. Computerized, digitized voice. One day a few years ago I guess someone in the TOWER had gotten bored one quiet Sunday afternoon. I unlocked the freq to check the ATIS out and they were in the midst of reprogramming the transmission. The digitized voice was saying things like. “I AM SUPERMAN” “I WEAR DIAPERS” and other misc. one line comments to that effect. Was pretty comical to have stumbled onto. I guess there were a few pilots that day that got a kick out of it as well.

281.400000 - WASHINGTON CENTER
No sense in changing this tag. Yes it a remote transmitter for WASHINGTON CENTER. Will add some detail to this later.

281.800000 - PATUXENT APPROACH
Lots of audio from PATUXENT APPROACH. The bulk of it was being simulcast and the comms were directed toward aircraft working the VHF counterpart so I did not have the audio recorded from the majority of the aircraft. Also a lot of the transmissions seemed directed to aircraft working SALISBURY. But there were enough comms directed to aircraft working PAX to be able to comfortably keep this tag as we have it at this time.

314.000000 - PATUXENT APPROACH
OK I did not get a lot of audio on this one today. Actually a total of 6 transmissions. I never could catch any solid confirmation of PATAXENT APPROACH using this freq but am very sure of it considering past history. But having said that I want to hear it for our purposes before considering this tag as solid. So I will continue monitoring.
Also worth noting. My reception on this freq as spotty at best. The audio form groundside is very dirty and slightly awkward for me to really get good copy on. I almost suspect the antenna for this freq might be located apart from the antennas I hear the other groundside ATC comms on. Night and day difference. It is possible I have something interfering with it but to date have not been able to directly associate this with a specific source. That being the case, any help on this freq would be greatly appreciated. I will keep it in the rotation for now.

318.800000 - PATUXENT APPROACH
Only had a few transmissions on this one. Had one series where it was used as a GCA freq. “SLIGHTLY RIGHT OF COURSE…… CORRECTING” ETC. ETC. I Only had one transmission where PATUXENT APPROACH actually identified itself as such but that along with the GCA use pretty much confirms our suspicions of it. For the GCA info we’ll throw that in under Additional info later as I don’t think this nor any PAX freq is only used as a GCA

336.400000 - PATUXENT GROUND
Numerous comms to/from PATUXENT GROUND. No brainer here we’ll leave it alone.

340.200000 - PATUXENT TOWER
This is a well known Alternate for PATUXENT TOWER and also often used as ALTERNATE for aircraft working Webster field. Unfortunately today I did have a few comms but something decided it wanted to interfere with it so I had to lock it out for the day. Will keep this in the rotation. The comms I did catch before locking it out were obvious TWR related comms but I’d like to see a little more.

343.650000 - PATUXENT TOWER
Quite a respectable number of transmissions. All to/from PATUXENT TOWER. I think we are good here.

348.000000 - PATUXENT APPROACH
Not even 1 transmission recorded. Will stay in the rotation. But this one gives me a lot of problems in that I usually end up keeping it locked out as it keeps locking up my scanner for some reason. Any help on this one would be appreciated.

356.200000 - PATUXENT METRO
Only 2 transmissions. Both weather related but neither gave solid confirmation of METRO use. Staying in the rotation.

358.000000 - WEBSTER TOWER
I had 1 hit. Garbled comms. I tend to have a lot of trouble on this freq with garbled comms. Any assistance on this one would be most helpful.

362.600000 - PATUXENT APPROACH
Was not heavily used but did catch enough to hear PATUXENT APPROACH using to pass APPROACH related information on. So I am comfortable enough with our tag to move on for this one and keep the tag as is.

384.400000 - PATUXENT CLEARANCE DELIVERY
Several comms of PATUXENT CLEARANCE DELIVERY identifying itself as such. Mostly C/D information being passed so I think we are good here.

To recap:
The following freqs I have heard enough on to feel comfortable with the tags as we have on them at this time. They have been locked out of my scanning rotation.

250.300000 - PATUXENT APPROACH/DEPARTURE
250.850000 - PATUXENT APPROACH
276.200000 - PATUXENT ATIS
281.400000 - WASHINGTON CENTER
281.800000 - PATUXENT APPROACH
318.800000 - PATUXENT APPROACH
336.400000 - PATUXENT GROUND
343.650000 - PATUXENT TOWER
362.600000 - PATUXENT APPROACH
384.400000 - PATUXENT CLEARANCE DELIVERY

The following still need confirmation work done and are still be scanned and recorded by me:

314.000000 - PATUXENT APPROACH
340.200000 - PATUXENT TOWER
348.000000 - PATUXENT APPROACH
356.200000 - PATUXENT METRO
358.000000 - WEBSTER TOWER


Making respectable progress here. With my having locked out all of the freqs whose tags appear to be OK at this point I expect to get much better coverage on the remaining freqs. Hopefully after one more days recording I will have enough to knock a few more out and then at that point I will put up the next group of what I call AREA freqs comprising ADVISORY, BAY WATCH and ECHO CONTROL frequencies.

Again, if anyone feels any further discussion is warranted at this time regarding the freqs I have chosen to accept the tags for please speak up. Anything is subject to further discussion. My main goal at this point is to get freqs up on the WIKI with a respectable tag. So I don’t want to spend too much time trying to really get carried away with fine tuning freqs tags and adding other ADDITIONAL INFORMATION at this point. We can revisit these freqs later after we get the WIKI a bit further along so others can have a list of freqs that they can refer to for the time being.

[freqhopping]

RE: the Leesburg Radio freqs my sectional shows 122.1 as 'receive only' . 117.6 (Ch. 123) is the Patuxent VORTAC freq.

It shows 127.95 as a PAX approach freq. On the map it's shown at Smith Island and Federalsburg. Basically it covers the east side of the bay.

[j333_76484]

Originally Posted by freqhopping

RE: the Leesburg Radio freqs my sectional shows 122.1 as 'receive only' . 117.6 (Ch. 123) is the Patuxent VORTAC freq.

It shows 127.95 as a PAX approach freq. On the map it's shown at Smith Island and Federalsburg. Basically it covers the east side of the bay.

Rgr. Thanks for doing the Research there I do here comms being transmitted to/from PAX but it is very sporadically on 122.1. I am going to record on these for a few days and take notes and go from there once we have a little actual focused listening time under our belts. I do have to keep 117.6 locked out here as it is the VORTAC but I want to try to get a better grip on 122.1.

To be honest me knowledge of these types of Fllightwatch or Flight Service freqs is very limited so I was going to look into these a little better before just tagging them and skipping on along

[TinEar]

Excellent piece of work Jeff. Thinking about all this, there are also "official" tags/uses for some of those freqs as assigned by the FAA. For instance, freqhopping's location of transmitters from the sectional maps is a good point to consider and helps to understand why you'd hear certain traffic on a specific frequency. Take the 127.95 App/Dep freq you and he both mentioned...it's also the App/Dep freq for the Salisbury-Ocean City Wicomico Regional Airport (That's a mouthful.) Yes, the aircraft call Patuxent Approach or Departure going into that airport. It explains why you're hearing a lot of Salisbury traffic on that freq.

The point I want to add here is that the designators/explanations for freqs contained in the FAA's Airport/Facility Directory also need to be considered. The frequencies contained in either the Directory or on the sectional maps are limited to those needed to fly to/from or through the Patuxent area only. There's a whole additional world of operational freqs used by the units working at Pax that I look forward to learning about from your analysis.

Anyway, here are the Patuxent freqs listed in the A/F Directory. This publication is issued every 56 days. I just ordered the next issue which will cover the period beginning March 16th so it'll be a bit before I get the latest information and what I have here is now a bit dated...but...notice the additional explanation they provide for App/Dep to explain why you'd use one freq over another.

Approach/Departure Control:
120.05 281.8 (164-054 degrees)
127.95 314.0 (055-163 degrees)

Tower:
123.7 344.4 340.2

Ground Control:
120.6 336.4

Clearance Delivery:
125.2 384.4

PMSV Metro:
356.2

Base Ops:
302.55

VORTAC:
117.6 PXT Chan 123

ATIS:
276.25 (Jeff, you show 276.2)

And that's it. Someone flying to Patuxent would have those frequencies published for his use. His maps would show the locations of various App/Dep controllers. Anything beyond those freqs belong to the various units/commands at Patuxent and would be developed for their own use. That's where your work becomes invaluable because any outsider is not going to have them published. We scanner listeners have to get those developed on our own to fully understand what's going on at Pax. But we knew that and that's why you began this project.

[j333_76484]

Tin,

I have never loked at the A/F directory you refered to as I always start my freq lists by using the latest IFR/VFR Supp. I usually "build" my base lists off of that then tweak it from there.

For the 127.95/314 being also used as Departure Ctrl as well. They very well could be but since starting this little project from listening to PAX on Groundside I can't say they have been used for the Departure purposes. I'll have to keep an ear on that.

For the 276.2/276.25 deal. Maybe we need to get us a phone number and call and have the A/F directory corrrected. I just brought up the R-8500. Punched in 276.2 Had PAX ATIS. Brought up 276.25, Dead air.

For the 302.55 BASE OPS freq, I have that freq thrown in with the Specific BASE OPS freqs that are for the specific activities at PAX for the time being. I'll throw that one in the the ATC list we have up now and we'll include that into the rotation now.

Re the use of some of the these freqs as being used for APP/DEP for Salisbury. To be honest I consider Salisbury another airport and was not worrying too much about adding alot of info about Salisbury in this list. I am trying as best I can to keep the freqs as PAX oriented as possible. Salisbury is another airport and I think those freq would likely be best suited under a list for that airport.

The IFR Supp shows pretty much the same as for the directional heading used the A/F list shows but I figured that information would be better suited being added under additional information at a later date. Plus I'd like to hear PAX use that one freq pair for deaparture purposes before I get carried away and put the Departure Ctrl tag on it as I have for the other Departure Ctrl Freq.

[TinEar]

Originally Posted by j333_76484

Tin,

I have never loked at the A/F directory you refered to as I always start my freq lists by using the latest IFR/VFR Supp. I usually "build" my base lists off of that then tweak it from there.

For the 127.95/314 being also used as Departure Co\trl as well. They very well could be but since starting this little project from listening to PAX on Groundside I can't say they have been used for the Departure purposes. I'll have to keep an ear on that.

For the 276.2/276.35 deal. Maybe we need to get us a phone number and call and have the A/F directory corrrected. I just brought up the R-8500. Punched in 276.2 Had PAX ATIS. Brought up 276.25 Dead air.

For the 302.55 BASE OPS freq, I have that freq thrown in with the Specific BASE OPS freqs that are for the specific activities at PAX for the time being. I'll throw that one in the the ATC list we have up now and we'll include that into the rotation now.

Re the use of some of the these freqs as being used for APP/DEP for Salisbury. To be honest I consider Salisbury another airport and was not worrying too much about adding alot of Salisbury in this list. I am trying as best I can to keep the freqs as PAX oriented as possible. Salisbury is another airport and I think those freq would likely be best suited under a list for that airport.

The IFR Supp shows pretty much the same as for the directional heading used the A/F list shows but I figured that information would be better suited being added under additional information at a later date. Plus I'd like to hear PAX use that one freq pair for deaprture purposes before I get carried away and put the Departure Ctrl tag on it as I have for the othe Departure Ctrl Freq.

There is no doubt the A/F Directory is wrong on the ATIS freq. Correct one is 276.2 as you know and originally published. In fact, I'm submitting their error to them. It's not something I could check from here since I can't hear it. I checked other FAA pubs including the charts which all show 276.2 so it looks like the A/F D is the only official pub carrying the wrong one.

I didn't mean to imply that you should carry the Salisbury freqs - just that sometimes it helps to explain why certain traffic is heard on a freq we think of as being a Pax freq - which it is. My only purpose for mentioning that list of freqs is to represent what the "world" can learn about Pax from the FAA documents and that everything else rests with the work you're doing to put the Pax picture in its proper perspective.

One other thing I want to mention about the Airport/Facility Directory. It generally is well ahead of most other FAA publications in carrying "all" the freqs for a particular airport. For instance, a friend just pointed out a couple of freqs in the past couple of days that the FAA just released as "new" and were to be added to the FAA-ATA-100 information. Both freqs have been used for at least a couple of years and were in the A/F Directory (at least as far back as 2005) but not in the FAA-ATA-100 CD/posted freqs or listed at Airnav.com which uses that document for its freqs. That's just for general information - not for the work you're doing.

[j333_76484]

Originally Posted by TinEar

There is no doubt the A/F Directory is wrong on the ATIS freq. Correct one is 276.2 as you know and originally published. In fact, I'm submitting their error to them. It's not something I could check from here since I can't hear it. I checked other FAA pubs including the charts which all show 276.2 so it looks like the A/F D is the only official pub carrying the wrong one.

I didn't mean to imply that you should carry the Salisbury freqs - just that sometimes it helps to explain why certain traffic is heard on a freq we think of as being a Pax freq - which it is. My only purpose for mentioning that list of freqs is to represent what the "world" can learn about Pax from the FAA documents and that everything else rests with the work you're doing to put the Pax picture in its proper perspective.

Copy all. After reviewing some of the comms from the freqs in use at Salisubry. PAX even had me hesistant on posting them to this at all because while reviewing the audio I must have listened to 75% of the comms before I even heard a PAX controller from groundside. But once I did I listened closely and it appeared that as aircraft are transitting close by the PAX areas or even through them then the PAX controllers can be heard using the freqs from here. I guess at most other times the remote is used at Salisbury. Or at least it seemed that way to me from here.

[TinEar]

Jeff, I found some more FAA published freqs for Patuxent. Searching through the FAA's Terminal Procedures Publications (valid 18 January to 15 February 2007) I found a document with Radar Instrument Approach Minimums (ceiling and visibility for each runway) for airports in this area. It listed the following freqs when using radar approaches to Patuxent....

120.05 - 121.0 - 135.025 - 250.3 - 281.8 - 301.2 - 305.2 - 318.8 - 348.0 - 362.6

I know you're in the process of confirming each freq so these are nothing but a guide to what the FAA calls them.

[j333_76484]

Originally Posted by TinEar

Jeff, I found some more FAA published freqs for Patuxent. Searching through the FAA's Terminal Procedures Publications (valid 18 January to 15 February 2007) I found a document with Radar Instrument Approach Minimums (ceiling and visibility for each runway) for airports in this area. It listed the following freqs when using radar approaches to Patuxent....

120.05 - 121.0 - 135.025 - 250.3 - 281.8 - 301.2 - 305.2 - 318.8 - 348.0 - 362.6

I know you're in the process of confirming each freq so these are nothing but a guide to what the FAA calls them.

Yep the NIMA DAFIF Flight Pubs has the same info:
PATUXENT RIVER NAS (KNHK), (TRAPNELL FIELD) MD (06187 USN) ELEV 39
RADAR - (E) 120.05 121.0 135.025 250.3 281.8 301.2 305.2 318.8 348.0 362.6.

From as best I can tell this list is simply a list of freqs assocaited with RADAR Approaches and GCA Appraoches so I kind figured we could leave the original tags just APPROACH and later put under additional information the RDR APP or GCA comments.

Adding info here:

COMMUNICATIONS - SFA ATIS - 276.2 LEESBURG RDO - 117.6T 122.1R REMARKS:
(RCO) APP/DEP - OT ctc WASHINGTON CENTER 133.9 281.4.- (R) (E) 120.05 127.95
281.8 314.0 (120.05 281.8 164°-054° ) (127.95 314.0 055°-163° ) TWR - Opr H24. (E) 123.7
343.65 340.2X GND - 120.6 336.4 CLNC DEL - 135.2 384.4 PMSV METRO - 356.2
BASE OPS - 302.55

[j333_76484]

Originally Posted by TinEar

Tower:
123.7 344.4 340.2

.

Tin I just caught this. Please note on your previous post the info about PAX TWR. It is incorrect as well. 344.4 no longer in use.

I still hear aircraft try to call PAX TWR on it periodically but with no contact made