MPSCS and Slot 2 TDMA Technology

[SEMTTP]

Mods...could you please sticky this so we can discuss this?

Would like to open up discussions regarding Motorola P-25 Slot 2 TDMA technology. The MSPCS is a state of the art system. The system right now can have 65,000 talkgroups on it. It currently is no where near that. The system utilizes Phase 1 modulation.

Question. Is upgrading to TDMA going to be a requirement? Will Motorola not support P-25 slot 4 CQPSK Phase 1 modulation?

As everyone knows the Motorola line of Mobiles and Portables are not cheap. Roughly $3500.00 a piece. With the new TDMA technology all current users will be required to purchase new radios. Will all the volunteer fire departments that utilize the current system be required to purchase new radios(if they can come up with the funding) and will the police departments be required to do the same?
Many departments barely got funding to purchase the radios they have now. And now because of new technology they are being forced to buy newer radios?

What departments will do this if any? Will it be cost effective for the individual departments of the state of Michigan?

Also, from what I am hearing, We all will have to upgrade our scanner/receivers, firmware and CPU upgrades will not work.

Open discussion regarding this technology

What do you guys think?

[Thunderbolt]

Originally Posted by SEMTTP

Mods...could you please sticky this so we can discuss this?

Would like to open up discussions regarding Motorola P-25 Slot 2 TDMA technology. The MSPCS is a state of the art system. The system right now can have 65,000 talkgroups on it. It currently is no where near that. The system utilizes Phase 1 modulation.

Question. Is upgrading to TDMA going to be a requirement? Will Motorola not support P-25 slot 4 CQPSK Phase 1 modulation?

As everyone knows the Motorola line of Mobiles and Portables are not cheap. Roughly $3500.00 a piece. With the new TDMA technology all current users will be required to purchase new radios. Will all the volunteer fire departments that utilize the current system be required to purchase new radios(if they can come up with the funding) and will the police departments be required to do the same?
Many departments barely got funding to purchase the radios they have now. And now because of new technology they are being forced to buy newer radios?

What departments will do this if any? Will it be cost effective for the individual departments of the state of Michigan?

Also, from what I am hearing, We all will have to upgrade our scanner/receivers, firmware and CPU upgrades will not work.

Open discussion regarding this technology

What do you guys think?

Done

[rdale]

Where are you seeing that this is a requirement that will be happening?

[SEMTTP]

Rob,

Please I am only going to ask you this one time not to get ignorant in this thread. I asked IF it would be a requirement.

[Thunderbolt]

This file from the MPSCS Planning Committee may explain a few things.

73s

Ron

[rdale]

I just asked a question. If you don't know, don't respond.

[bigbluemsp]

I don't believe that there will be a need for new radios. I believe they can reflash the radios to come up to compliance with the new phase.

|\/| has been working on this for a few years now.


Also LOL to your request.

[N_Jay]

Are they discussing going directly to P25 Phase 2, or to Motorola's pre-Phase 2 technology called "X2"?

Either way there will be operational modes that allow Phase 1 equipment to operate on the system. It is up to the system designers and managers if they want to use those features.

No one has Phase 2 equipment out yet. Some vendors have said some models will be flash upgradable. Most will not.

Yes, like the radios, scanners would need new software/firmware or hardware.
No, none exists yet.

[UPMan]

As of today, the Phase 2 spec has not yet been published*. The main portion is expected to be published this month, but there are additional sections on testing and qualification standards that are still expected to be 4-8 months out from publication.

IIRC Phase 1 was published around 1997, and compliant systems didn't start to go into operation in any broad sense until the 2001-2003 time frame. If there is a significant cost associated with moving to a Phase 2 system then I'd expect implementation to move no faster than the speed of government (i.e. several years before implementation).

*Published in this context means "released as a final standard."

[SEMTTP]

Originally Posted by N_Jay

Are they discussing going directly to P25 Phase 2, or to Motorola's pre-Phase 2 technology called "X2"?

Either way there will be operational modes that allow Phase 1 equipment to operate on the system. It is up to the system designers and managers if they want to use those features.

No one has Phase 2 equipment out yet. Some vendors have said some models will be flash upgradable. Most will not.

Yes, like the radios, scanners would need new software/firmware or hardware.
No, none exists yet.

I've not heard of the "X2" but definatly the Phase 2 is being discussed. So phase 1 and phase 2 operating on the same frequencies is not going to create any issues then? IF not then that would be great because it is of my opinion that these departments dont have the money for new radios. Now if all the radio needs is new software uploaded into it to control the TDMA then that is sort of bad news for us, because then we are going to need a new scanner. I firmly belive that GRE is working on this technology, though we will never know until they announce it.

I have seen your other post regarding Phase 2 and no equipment out as of yet. For now lets keep it that way so we can enjoy endless hours of scanning enjoyment!

[Thunderbolt]

The first Project 25, Phase 2 TDMA TRS is online and being thoroughly tested by Motorola in DuPage County, Illinois. Likewise, other simulcast systems of the same design will be online in Montgomery County, Texas by the end of the month. This will in turn be followed by the Prince Georges County, Maryland 700 MHz simulcast system by the end of the year. All three of these systems will fully support P25 Phase 2 TDMA technology, but will be compatible with the older FDMA P25 Phase 1 technology.

73s

Ron

[N_Jay]

Originally Posted by Thunderbolt

The first Project 25, Phase 2 TDMA TRS is online and being thoroughly tested by Motorola in DuPage County, Illinois. Likewise, other simulcast systems of the same design will be online in Montgomery County, Texas by the end of the month. This will in turn be followed by the Prince Georges County, Maryland 700 MHz simulcast system by the end of the year. All three of these systems will fully support P25 Phase 2 TDMA technology, but will be compatible with the older FDMA P25 Phase 1 technology.

73s

Ron

Are you saying that those systems will implement the 12KBPS 2 slot TDMA voice channels on their initial roll-out?

I think you may be mistaken, (or the person who informed you might have been mistaken).

I am fairly confident that DuPage is using 9600 Motorola TDMA voice channels (at least for a while).

I will have to do some checking on OG County, but the timing seems a bit to close in for full Phase 2.

[SEMTTP]

Ron,

The link you provided has this to say....

"Future improvements in technology will also help addresss system capacity concerns. Currently the Project 25 Phase 2 standards for time division multiple access(TDMA) systems are in the development stages. Once implemented, the new TDMA standards would facilitate the manufacturing of equipment that would allow twice the capacity on each transmitter. This would in turn provide more than twice the capacity at each site using the same amount of frequency spectrum and equipment".

So, with that being said...if there are systems coming online that utilize TDMA, then the equipment has already been made? NJAY, this seems to be your cup of tea...

BTW...this is under the FUTURE IMPROVEMENTS part....and getting to the last page I see it says this : "Implement 700MHz voice channels and/or Project 25 TDMA standard if available by 2010"

At any rate, I dont think we need to worry about TDMA around here for a while, but it is something that we should discuss and make scanner manufacters aware of this type of modulation scheme being put into place in several communities.

[rdale]

Scanner makers are aware of Phase 2... We better use superglue to make this sticky if the earlier it can happen is more than a year away

[SEMTTP]

Originally Posted by rdale

Scanner makers are aware of Phase 2... We better use superglue to make this sticky if the earlier it can happen is more than a year away

Well thank you very much Super Moderator of Radio Reference. Oh and you should really watch your English grammar!

We better use superglue to make this sticky, if the earliest that it can happen is more than a year away.

Come on Rob you disappoint me....You out of all people should have got that right... you have nailed enough people to the wall for spelling and grammar!!!!!

Please Rob, I'm asking one more time, do not participate in this thread....Unless you have some breaking news regarding TDMA...please keep your ignorant comments to yourself.

Thanks

[Thunderbolt]

Let's try to keep this thread civil.

[SEMTTP]

Ok, so Rob and I have exchanged a few PM's. He obviously controls the radio reference and the moderators here.

Rob will continue with his Ignorant being and post's. He will keep saying how many people love him, and how much he information he has posted here and how much of it came from him.

Rob nobody cares that you are a beta tester. Nobdy cares about you rob.


But because you are the boss here...could you please just close out this thread, it does not meet your expectations and it was not approved by you. So go ahead and close it.


Mods....please delete this entire thread, once again Rob Dale has won and I will not be posting here anymore

[SEMTTP]

Originally Posted by Thunderbolt

Let's try to keep this thread civil.

There is no civil conversation as long as ROB DALE the GLORIOUS SUPER MODERATOR OF RADIO REFERENCE is in charge...


all hail rob dale...all hail rob dale


People dont ever think about starting a post unless you get Rob Dale's approval........

[Thunderbolt]

This thread is now closed.