Any EMS personel in the Detroit area. How do you cantact the Hospital

[macari77]

Anyone out there that runs rescues in Detroit and bring pts to Detroit hospitals (other than DFD),

What do you use to contact the hospital. We use HEMS but the hospitals can never hear us clearly. We are currently going to the process of reprogramming our radios.
They tried to put the specific CTCSS tone through the HEAR system in for each hospital on the VHF's but when I tried I got the HEMS instead of Henry Ford.
Was just wondering what other options are out there, so I can give a suggestion to management since I don't think they know too much about the radio systems in Detroit.

We have UHF and VHF on both BLS and ALS trucks if that helps.

[Thunderbolt]

Many of the EMS rigs in the Detroit area use HEMS on VHF and UHF. However, with the proliferation of 800 MHz digitally trunked radio systems in the Metro Detroit area, a very large part of EMS-to-Hospital communications takes place on these trunking systems:

• Downriver Mutual Aid.
• Michigan Public Safety Communications System (MPSCS).
• Oakland County (analog) TRS.
• Western Wayne Mutual Aid TRS.

Moreover, with the expansion of various simulcast systems on the MPSCS TRS, look for more EMS communications to migrate to this radio system down the road. Currently, Lapeer, Saginaw, and Washtenaw Counties are making firm plans to join the statewide system, and the latter of the two are well underway with infrastructure construction. That being said, EMS communications in these counties will be making the switchover from VHF/UHF, once these systems are finished by next year at the latest, maybe longer in the case of Lapeer County.

73s

Ron

[w8jjr]

Originally Posted by macari77

Anyone out there that runs rescues in Detroit and bring pts to Detroit hospitals (other than DFD)

DFD do have contracts with other companies to back them up if they need coverage or out of rigs.
There is also the private contracts with the nursing homes and hospitals

Originally Posted by macari77

What do you use to contact the hospital.

Use Oakland TRS and HEAR (HERN)

This may help you. Its a couple of years old.

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/md...6_174553_7.pdf

[macari77]

Im sorry I didnt really make that clear.
I work Highland Park Rescue for Medic One Ambulance, we are contracted through the Highland Park FD who doesn't run medical at all, our other units do the nursing home rescues, and we also back up DFD. So I know how all that works.
The problem is that our radios is our trucks are programed for HEMS, and the Detroit hospitals (Detroit Receiving, Henry Ford, Siani-Grace, St. John) keep telling us the they can not hear us good through HEMS. Probably because the closest tower is in Livonia or Wyandotte, or because our aging radios are not maintained properly. Now I am calling the ER charge nurse directly on my cell phone, which they don't like too much.

As for Detroit EMS, they don't use HEMS anymore. There Dispatch patches them through on one of there scene channels on the MPSCS. They only have HEMS as a back up.

My question is:
What other ways are there to contact the Detroit Hospitals?
HEAR/HERN?
Is there a way to contach DFD EMS Dispatch and have them patch us through? thought I saw something about Harper Woods and the Grosse Points doing that.

Mind you we only have 400mHz UHF and whatever mHz VHF is. Don't see us going 800mHz either.

Thanks

[macari77]

w8jjr, your link is not working for me.

[Wyandotte]

I sometimes hear units on 155.34 talking to HEMS. Maybe you could go there. Which vendor works on your radios, if you know?

[w8jjr]

Originally Posted by macari77

w8jjr, your link is not working for me.

The State's IT is going up and down today. I attached it to this message.

You cant call the hospitals on the HEAR? Thought all units had to have the 2 vhf channels.
Anyway thats what this doc is about. I have been retired for a couple of years so things may have changed. When I was working all units in the state had to have the 2 vhf channels.

155.340
155.400

You should be able to contact them on 155.340

Here is the short version. (much more in the doc)

State of Michigan
MEDCOM REQUIREMENTS
September 2006

All basic, limited, and advanced life support vehicles, hospitals, and department-approved facilities receiving emergency patients, shall be equipped with radio communication capability on 155.340 MHz.
Vehicles licensed and in service prior to April 2004 and which were not equipped for operation on 155.34 MHz during that time period are exempt from the above requirement. All newly licensed or replacement vehicles at the basic, limited, and advanced life support levels must be equipped to communicate on 155.34 MHz.

Effective January, 2007, all basic, limited and advanced life support vehicles shall be equipped for operation on 155.355 MHz. This frequency is designed for on-scene coordination purposes, and is restricted to mobile and portable use only. Operations on this frequency will utilize a pl code of 210.7 Hz.
The Department recommends that each mobile VHF radio used in EMS operations in Michigan be configured for operation on all CTCSS tones used on the HEAR / HERN frequency in Michigan

Base stations transmitting on 155.34 MHz must transmit using a “PL” code of 97.4 Hz. Receive “PL” will be as individually assigned by the Department. It is recommended that mobile and portable units use no “PL” (carrier squelch) on receive to prevent unintentional interference on this frequency.

Stations transmitting on 155.400 MHz within 100 miles of the SE Michigan counties listed above must transmit using a “PL” code of 97.4 Hz or other “PL” as approved by the Department to avoid interference to SE Michigan HEAR/HERN operations

The department may grant waivers of these standards when it can be demonstrated that compliance with these standards will result in a significant medical or economic impact to the public health safety and welfare.

[Rexem]

I started my dispatch career at Medic One, Macari. We used HEMS for 82 and oakland contacts and our cell phone for detroit hospitals. Thats before I quit after a roll over responding to a call at franklin nursing dispatched from Garden City Hosp.(stupid dispatch) 35 mins before clear time. That Medic One rig was brand new too, about 1000 miles on the truck. Hit broad side at westwood and joy, rolled it onto the drivers side on top a poor ladies hood. The guy that hit us ran from the scene somehow, I was in the pass. seat. I never worked the road again. unit 973. What were we talking about again....

[macari77]

Originally Posted by w8jjr

The State's IT is going up and down today. I attached it to this message.

You cant call the hospitals on the HEAR? Thought all units had to have the 2 vhf channels.
Anyway thats what this doc is about. I have been retired for a couple of years so things may have changed. When I was working all units in the state had to have the 2 vhf channels.

155.340
155.400

You should be able to contact them on 155.340

Here is the short version. (much more in the doc)

State of Michigan
MEDCOM REQUIREMENTS
September 2006

All basic, limited, and advanced life support vehicles, hospitals, and department-approved facilities receiving emergency patients, shall be equipped with radio communication capability on 155.340 MHz.
Vehicles licensed and in service prior to April 2004 and which were not equipped for operation on 155.34 MHz during that time period are exempt from the above requirement. All newly licensed or replacement vehicles at the basic, limited, and advanced life support levels must be equipped to communicate on 155.34 MHz.

Effective January, 2007, all basic, limited and advanced life support vehicles shall be equipped for operation on 155.355 MHz. This frequency is designed for on-scene coordination purposes, and is restricted to mobile and portable use only. Operations on this frequency will utilize a pl code of 210.7 Hz.
The Department recommends that each mobile VHF radio used in EMS operations in Michigan be configured for operation on all CTCSS tones used on the HEAR / HERN frequency in Michigan

Base stations transmitting on 155.34 MHz must transmit using a “PL” code of 97.4 Hz. Receive “PL” will be as individually assigned by the Department. It is recommended that mobile and portable units use no “PL” (carrier squelch) on receive to prevent unintentional interference on this frequency.

Stations transmitting on 155.400 MHz within 100 miles of the SE Michigan counties listed above must transmit using a “PL” code of 97.4 Hz or other “PL” as approved by the Department to avoid interference to SE Michigan HEAR/HERN operations

The department may grant waivers of these standards when it can be demonstrated that compliance with these standards will result in a significant medical or economic impact to the public health safety and welfare.

Ok I thought that on the HEAR system you could call any hospital directly yourself, and that each hospital had a different CTCSS tone. Correct me if I'm wrong but calling on the HEMS VHF channel is the same as calling through the HEAR/HERN system.

I think I just figured out the VHF problem. They tried to program our radios like the attachment says to. We have a HEMS Downriver and HEMS Western Wayne but are programed to the same VHF channel without the PL tones because we can pick up units in Oakland or Macomb county. Both channels pick up the same traffic at the same time. Although calling on this channel I can hear the hospital and I believe they can hear me relativity well too. But the 155.340 MHz with 151.4 Hz PL tone would make that the best channel to use.

As for the UHF we have Downriver Med-9,3,4 Wester Wayne Med-9,3,4 but again without the PL tones set (brought my scanner to check if the tones were set and I could do a radio check on WW Med-9 and hear it on DwnRvr Med-9). Calling on those even across the street from a Detroit hospital you can barely hear them and the can barely hear you. However, outside of Detroit they work great.

Now we also have on the UHF radio a Detroit Med-9,2,5?? I have never hear anything on them and get no response when I try to call on them. No clue what these are.

Sorry for rambling but any feedback would help.

[macari77]

Originally Posted by Rexem

I started my dispatch career at Medic One, Macari. We used HEMS for 82 and oakland contacts and our cell phone for detroit hospitals. Thats before I quit after a roll over responding to a call at franklin nursing dispatched from Garden City Hosp.(stupid dispatch) 35 mins before clear time. That Medic One rig was brand new too, about 1000 miles on the truck. Hit broad side at westwood and joy, rolled it onto the drivers side on top a poor ladies hood. The guy that hit us ran from the scene somehow, I was in the pass. seat. I never worked the road again. unit 973. What were we talking about again....

Dosent sound like much has changed with the response times. Glad im working only Highland Park and don't have to bounce across the county all day anymore. There is a new momo out that we are under no circumstances allowed to call HEMS though the phone and they took all the direct ER phone numbers out, so I had to get them on my own.

[RadioRon]

The MEDCOM Plan has PL tone assignments as a separate attachment for all hospitals in MI on 155.340, I'll see if I can find an electronic version and post it. Your rig radio should have the PL programmed for transmit only, with an open PL on the receive side. The hospital is programmed with the PL on the receive side and open on transmit. In this way the hospital is only suppose to hear their own traffic, but the rig can hear it all so they know if the frequency is clear before they call (at least in theory).

All HEMS hospitals have the same PL, which is the HEMS console. You call HEMS and they patch through to the hospital. In Detroit/East each hospital has its own PL and you contact they directly. Macomb county use to work like HEMS, but that folded several years ago and now contact is made directly with the hospital. I don't know about Oakland County.

The MPSCS is being set up with almost every hospital in S/E Michigan having its own talk group. Services that have MPSCS radios can use it to contact hospitals that make the choice to use MPSCS. All hospital and licensed EMS vehicles are still required to maintain 155.340 for use, whether they use it or not.

When Detroit switched to their 800 system they removed all VHF radios from their medics. Then someone decided they were junk and got rid of them. Two months later they bought all new VHF radios to reinstall in their medics so they could stay in compliance with the MEDCOM plan.

[RadioRon]

As a side note, the MEDCOM plan says hospitals are responsible for recording incoming patient reports from ambulances. Unless they are recording their phone calls, they can't accept these are patient reports. HEMS does all the recording for Downriver and Western Wayne, thats why they want you to go through the HEMS console.

[macari77]

OK, so i kind of had the HEAR/HERN system right. Yeah they did say something about non recorded lines when calling on the phone.
If you could get the PL tone list for the Detroit/East hospital that would be great, or direct me to where I could get them.
When DFD got rid of the old VHFs did the hospitals do the same?

[RadioRon]

Here is a link to a copy of the MEDCOM Plan:

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/md...6_174553_7.pdf

The first page has the TX and email of the State Radio Consultant who can give you a current copy of the PL codes for the State.

All hospital in the State that accept EMS are suppose to have (and monitor) the VHF radio. They can use other radio systems for ambulance contact with approval of the local med control and I think the State has to approve (don't remember). As more areas and agencies go MPSCS you will see more traffic on these talk groups, but the current plan is for the State to continue to mandate the VHF system as a mandatory back-up.

[w8jjr]

Thanks Ron,

I already have that attached to a message above. I had a list of pl's , still looking.
Had hoped you had the same doc with the pl's.

>> State has to approve (don't remember). <<

Yes they do

>> State to continue to mandate the VHF system as a mandatory back-up.<<

For Disaster Communications and Interoperability Channels

[macari77]

Thanks for all the help ill pass that info to my supervisor.

Thanks again