TRUNKING QUESTIONS (Pro-96)

[MichMar]

Okay, after reading some other threads here, I want to confirm/ask some things.

1) I used RR.com last week to program some trunking stuff into my scanner. Since I don't know how far the range is, I downloaded only the Control and Alternate channel frequencies from a bunch of sites near and around my area (Holland). I also loaded up the Talk Groups with everything from my MSP and DNR districts, etc.

Am I supposed to put a dummy 1300FM frequency inbetween each tower site? Right now, my bank looks like this:

Paw Paw 08 868.43750 MOT 0.0
Paw Paw 10 868.78750 MOT 0.0
Paw Paw 11 868.93750 MOT 0.0
Adams Park05 867.93750 MOT 0.0
Adams Park08 868.41250 MOT 0.0
Adams Park10 868.76250 MOT 0.0
Coloma 05 868.48750 MOT 0.0
Coloma 07 868.98750 MOT 0.0
Fennville 06 867.91250 MOT 0.0
Fennville 07 868.38750 MOT 0.0
South Have04 867.86250 MOT 0.0
South Have07 868.86250 MOT 0.0 .... etc.

So am I supposed to instead put a dummy 1300FM channel inbetween each set of tower sites, like this?

Paw Paw 08 868.43750 MOT 0.0
Paw Paw 10 868.78750 MOT 0.0
Paw Paw 11 868.93750 MOT 0.0
DUMMY 1300.00 FM
Adams Park05 867.93750 MOT 0.0
Adams Park08 868.41250 MOT 0.0
Adams Park10 868.76250 MOT 0.0 ... etc.

Also, I've noticed that the only channel in this bank that I'm picking up frequencies from is the Fennville 07 one. I thought I'd maybe get Allendale, Plainwell and Wayland sites too, since I can get fire/police calls on the conventional frequencies for those areas. Plus, I also loaded the pre-programmed MI SPD UPPER and MI SPD LOWER banks into my working memory, and I pick up traffic on both of those, and can hear them talking about Kalamazoo areas, etc. that I'm not getting in the one that I programmed myself, but included that area and TGs.


2) I programmed the Allegan County trunked system into its own separate bank from RR.com. I only selected the Control and Alternate frequencies to download, but for some reason it downloaded ALL of the frequencies, which are all "Simulcast". When my scanner does stop on something in that bank, 80% of the time it seems its one of the channels where all I hear is an annoying buzz/fax-y type sound. Why did it download all of the channels even though I only selected the Control and Alternate ones? Can I delete all of the ones that are not Control or Alternate?


3) On the MI SPD UPPER and MI SPD LOWER banks that I loaded in from the virual memory (I get traffic on both of them), is there any way to automatically convert the labels that were assigned to more descriptive info? They (RadioShack I assume) didn't bother to describe what area/site is coming thru, my scanner just will say MI Spd Upper and then the MOT ID number for the talkgroup. So I have no idea what area or talkgroup I'm hearing. Is there an easy/automatic way to change the labels so it says what tower/site the frequency is, and an alpha description of the TG? Oh - and on these preprogrammed trunked systems, they didn't enter any dummy 1300FM frequencies inbetween any of the trunked frequencies. That's why I didn't on the bank that I programmed myself from RR.com.

[seamusg]

Originally Posted by MichMar

Okay, after reading some other threads here, I want to confirm/ask some things.

1) I used RR.com last week to program some trunking stuff into my scanner. Since I don't know how far the range is, I downloaded only the Control and Alternate channel frequencies from a bunch of sites near and around my area (Holland). I also loaded up the Talk Groups with everything from my MSP and DNR districts, etc.

Am I supposed to put a dummy 1300FM frequency inbetween each tower site? Right now, my bank looks like this:

Paw Paw 08 868.43750 MOT 0.0
Paw Paw 10 868.78750 MOT 0.0
Paw Paw 11 868.93750 MOT 0.0
Adams Park05 867.93750 MOT 0.0
Adams Park08 868.41250 MOT 0.0
Adams Park10 868.76250 MOT 0.0
Coloma 05 868.48750 MOT 0.0
Coloma 07 868.98750 MOT 0.0
Fennville 06 867.91250 MOT 0.0
Fennville 07 868.38750 MOT 0.0
South Have04 867.86250 MOT 0.0
South Have07 868.86250 MOT 0.0 .... etc.

So am I supposed to instead put a dummy 1300FM channel inbetween each set of tower sites, like this?

Paw Paw 08 868.43750 MOT 0.0
Paw Paw 10 868.78750 MOT 0.0
Paw Paw 11 868.93750 MOT 0.0
DUMMY 1300.00 FM
Adams Park05 867.93750 MOT 0.0
Adams Park08 868.41250 MOT 0.0
Adams Park10 868.76250 MOT 0.0 ... etc.

Also, I've noticed that the only channel in this bank that I'm picking up frequencies from is the Fennville 07 one. I thought I'd maybe get Allendale, Plainwell and Wayland sites too, since I can get fire/police calls on the conventional frequencies for those areas. Plus, I also loaded the pre-programmed MI SPD UPPER and MI SPD LOWER banks into my working memory, and I pick up traffic on both of those, and can hear them talking about Kalamazoo areas, etc. that I'm not getting in the one that I programmed myself, but included that area and TGs.


2) I programmed the Allegan County trunked system into its own separate bank from RR.com. I only selected the Control and Alternate frequencies to download, but for some reason it downloaded ALL of the frequencies, which are all "Simulcast". When my scanner does stop on something in that bank, 80% of the time it seems its one of the channels where all I hear is an annoying buzz/fax-y type sound. Why did it download all of the channels even though I only selected the Control and Alternate ones? Can I delete all of the ones that are not Control or Alternate?


3) On the MI SPD UPPER and MI SPD LOWER banks that I loaded in from the virual memory (I get traffic on both of them), is there any way to automatically convert the labels that were assigned to more descriptive info? They (RadioShack I assume) didn't bother to describe what area/site is coming thru, my scanner just will say MI Spd Upper and then the MOT ID number for the talkgroup. So I have no idea what area or talkgroup I'm hearing. Is there an easy/automatic way to change the labels so it says what tower/site the frequency is, and an alpha description of the TG? Oh - and on these preprogrammed trunked systems, they didn't enter any dummy 1300FM frequencies inbetween any of the trunked frequencies. That's why I didn't on the bank that I programmed myself from RR.com.

With the PRO96 you can easily detremine what tower on system you're on by hitting MAN and monitoring the CC it will show the bit rate of the cc 96: the system ID SY796 and the tower eg T0213. the above example is from site 219 on MPSCS 9600 bps cc system ID 796 and site 219 because the Tower number is in a hex format with 02 as the zone and site 13 hex is 19 decimal, the far right will give the percent decode of the cc which indicates how well you're receiving it. If you want to put more than one site in a bank you need to put a dummy freq in between sites. Range for 800mhz is a lot less than VHF and antenna makes a big difference. I would suggest that before you put everything in, you start with one site at a time and see if you can receive it. Programing one site at a time will let you know which sites you can receive, and when your done you will know what sites to program in, I would also suggest that you don't program in talkgroups at first, but leave the bank open to see which tg's your getting first, then you'll know whose in your area. Allegan Co. is an EDACS system and cannot be scanned as a CC only system, CC only works with MOT 800mhz systems, with an EDACS system you must program in all the freqs in the correct LCN order starting with ch 1 and not 0, the little number next to each freq is the channel number it must be in. For more information see the WIKI on trunking. The problem with using the preloaded data is you don't know which site you're getting, the CC's are reused across the state, whenever they are far enough apart.

[MichMar]

OK, so to summarize...

Yes, I do need to put a dummy channel inbetween different site locations. (So list the Control channel, then Alternate channel(s), then a DUMMY, and repeat.)

I did start my Allegan Trunking bank (EDACS) on Channel 0, so if I keep all the freq's and just move them down one channel, so they start with 1 (in same channel number as the the little number says), that should then be okay.

There's no easy/automatic way to convert the pre-loaded MI SPD UPPER and MI SPD LOWER information to Alpha channel descriptions and talkgroups...I'd have to look them up and change those manually, either in WinStar or on the scanner itself.

[seamusg]

Originally Posted by MichMar

OK, so to summarize...

Yes, I do need to put a dummy channel inbetween different site locations. (So list the Control channel, then Alternate channel(s), then a DUMMY, and repeat.)

I did start my Allegan Trunking bank (EDACS) on Channel 0, so if I keep all the freq's and just move them down one channel, so they start with 1 (in same channel number as the the little number says), that should then be okay.

There's no easy/automatic way to convert the pre-loaded MI SPD UPPER and MI SPD LOWER information to Alpha channel descriptions and talkgroups...I'd have to look them up and change those manually, either in WinStar or on the scanner itself.

With Allegan you should be ok if you have the 10 freqs in ch's 1 thru 10 of a bank with the bank set to EDACS and each channel set to EDACS. I never use the pre-loaded data, unless it's a new scanner that I don't know how to program and then only to see how to program it. I don't think I've ever looked at the MI SPD UPPER or LOWER files. I've already played with my scanners enough to know which sites and systems I can receive, and what I need when I visit my daughter. I save all the different cofigs so I can reload whenever I need.

[fmon]

Originally Posted by MichMar

.So am I supposed to instead put a dummy 1300FM channel inbetween each set of tower sites, like this?

Yes to the question. Reason, RS/GRE never did the extensive test conducted by the group in this Pro-96 sticky (closed) forum.

Originally Posted by MichMar

2) I programmed the Allegan County trunked system into its own separate bank from RR.com. I only selected the Control and Alternate frequencies to download, but for some reason it downloaded ALL of the frequencies, which are all "Simulcast". When my scanner does stop on something in that bank, 80% of the time it seems its one of the channels where all I hear is an annoying buzz/fax-y type sound. Why did it download all of the channels even though I only selected the Control and Alternate ones? Can I delete all of the ones that are not Control or Alternate?

It appears you are using Web import with Win96 and selected "First 10 characters of site description plus LCN" by the info provided in your first question. However, Web Import with your EDACS CC only checked imports only in channel 1 and 2 and is likely the cause of your problem as pointed out by seamusg. But when CC only is left unchecked the system wll correctly import.

BTW, checking the "Custom text" option and typing in Allegan CO, would produce the following:
Bank 3 Ch 00 0.00000 FM 0.0 D
Allegan Co01 857.93750 EDACS 0.0
Allegan Co02 858.23750 EDACS 0.0
Allegan Co03 858.26250 EDACS 0.0
Allegan Co04 858.43750 EDACS 0.0
Allegan Co05 858.48750 EDACS 0.0
Allegan Co06 858.93750 EDACS 0.0
Allegan Co07 859.23750 EDACS 0.0
Allegan Co08 859.26250 EDACS 0.0
Allegan Co09 859.43750 EDACS 0.0
Allegan Co10 859.93750 EDACS 0.0

[MichMar]

Thanks! And thanks for the tip on Custom Text

[Shackman]

With the Allegan County system being ProVoice, would it not be better to program the frequencies and talk groups off the state system? from what I understand they simulcast on the state system and I do not believe you will hear anything off a provoce system. Please correct me if I am wrong.

[bigbluemsp]

You can't scan or monity a Provoice system w/o a actual Provoice capable radio.

There isn't a scanner made that will pick it up.

[MichMar]

I have noticed that I don't think I've actually heard anything come thru the Allegan County EDACS trunked system that I put in Bank 3. Since I have the MPSCS area site towers programmed in my other bank (Fennville, South Haven, Paw Paw, Coloma, Allendale, & Cannonsburg, which I've gotten reception on all of them at some point), I do get a lot of traffic in the Allegan/Hamilton/Wayland areas thru that. And there are a few conventional frequencies for Allegan County also, which I have programmed into Bank 2.

So should I just clear out Bank 3 which contains the Allegan County trunked EDACS info? Sounds like I'm not going to be able to get anything on it, due to "ProVoice" (whatever that is).

[seamusg]

Originally Posted by MichMar

I have noticed that I don't think I've actually heard anything come thru the Allegan County EDACS trunked system that I put in Bank 3. Since I have the MPSCS area site towers programmed in my other bank (Fennville, South Haven, Paw Paw, Coloma, Allendale, & Cannonsburg, which I've gotten reception on all of them at some point), I do get a lot of traffic in the Allegan/Hamilton/Wayland areas thru that. And there are a few conventional frequencies for Allegan County also, which I have programmed into Bank 2.

So should I just clear out Bank 3 which contains the Allegan County trunked EDACS info? Sounds like I'm not going to be able to get anything on it, due to "ProVoice" (whatever that is).

You won't be able to get any digital TG's on that system only analog, the digital are provoice which no scanner will receive.

[bigbluemsp]

You can scan EDAS but not EDACS ProVoice.

There are a few different EDACS systems. Provoice is the one that is unmonitorable

[seamusg]

Originally Posted by bigbluemsp

You can scan EDAS but not EDACS ProVoice.

There are a few different EDACS systems. Provoice is the one that is unmonitorable

The system is EDACS Standard, with mixed analog and provoice talkgroups.

[bigbluemsp]

Ok so then only the standard ones can be monitored.

[MichMar]

Another question: I separated the different tower sites in my trunked bank with a DUMMY 1300.00 FM frequency, like you guys said. But every now and then the scanner will stop on that frequency. I don't hear anything, and it just flashes on it, and then continues on scanning, but it IS slowing up the scanning. Can I "Lock Out" those 1300.00 FM dummy frequencies so this doesn't happen, without afffecting whatever benefit put the 1300's inbetween each tower site provides?

[fmon]

Originally Posted by MichMar

Another question: I separated the different tower sites in my trunked bank with a DUMMY 1300.00 FM frequency, like you guys said. But every now and then the scanner will stop on that frequency. I don't hear anything, and it just flashes on it, and then continues on scanning, but it IS slowing up the scanning. Can I "Lock Out" those 1300.00 FM dummy frequencies so this doesn't happen, without afffecting whatever benefit put the 1300's inbetween each tower site provides?

Loosen the squelch (counter clockwise) just a hair. locking them out will be the same as having zero's in the same slot - thus defeating the purpose.

[KD8FSJ]

I would suggest using some more useful frequencies as seperators. Some of the ones I like use are.

154.2950 FM MI DNR Fire
155.8650 FM MEPSS
155.3700 FM Innercity/Point to Point
173.0750 FM Lojack

I use 4 spacers between towers and have no problems.