Allegan County is on M.P.S.C.S!!!!!!

itsaawgood · #1 (**permalink**) 01-31-2005, 04:32 PM

Today Allegan officially shut down the 155.55 freq. But Today...oh glorious day....Allegan Central Dispatch started broadcasting on their NEW MPSCS Talkgroup.......which is Talkgroup ID# 3211. How is this possible you ask...well Allegan just happened to purchase MA/COM's top of the line radios that do both EDACS Provoice AND is P25 interoperable!! It sounds very much like most of the county sheriff and ALL the State traffic is being dispatched from this talkgroup....and from what I heard a dispatcher tell a state trooper...this will be the way it is run. You do hear Dispatch asking county cars to occationally switch over to LEIN East or West...which IS on the Provoice system, and there was absolutely no EMS or Fire traffic on 3211....but I believe this talkgroup is going to be their MAIN channel....actually a state trooper checking in identified it as their main channel. So Allegan is NOT totally off the air to us Digital scanner users...I believe it will be a mix of the two systems....Provoice for more private county only traffic....but 3211 for most other traffic. And let me tell you 3211 was busy today! Another talkgroup that I heard this morning that MIGHT be associated with Allegan is 3357...but I can not confirm this at the moment...I only heard 2 transmission on it early this morning and it was not enough info to gather if it was Allegan Co. or not.

Remember folks...you heard it here first!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

newsdork · #2 (**permalink**) 01-31-2005, 05:01 PM

from where do you monitor? will i be able to get this in GR with a good ant.
please keep us updated. Thank You

itsaawgood · #3 (**permalink**) 01-31-2005, 05:58 PM

I work all through-out Allegan and live in South Haven and can moniter them perfectly. If you can receive traffic off the Wayland tower you probably will be able to moniter them.....all you can do is scan and see.

itsaawgood · #4 (**permalink**) 01-31-2005, 08:00 PM

I submitted this info to the RR Database and they added this statement "(rebroadcasted from County TRS)"....this is not true. Allegan has M/A-COM's newest equipment which is able to broadcast in both EDACS Provoice and P25 Digital modes BUT not at the same time. Talkgroup #3211 is Allegan Central Dispatch broadcasting DIRECTLY on the M.P.S.C.S. system...this is NOT a rebroadcast. The MSP have their radios programmed with 3211 and talk directly to Allegan Central. Talkgroup #3211 is Allegans MAIN channel, the direct replacement for 155.550...they are using their Provoice side of the system for LEIN East & West, EMS, dispatch of local PD's (ie Plainwell, Ostsego, Allegan, Saugatuck/Douglas) and private transmissions. I thought that Allegan was crazy going with a private system....but turns out they have the best of both worlds...a Private system AND an P25 system all in one. I'm just estatic that I can still listen to the majority of Allegans broadcasts with the old PRO-96.

gpp10x · #5 (**permalink**) 01-31-2005, 09:25 PM

Is it safe to say Allegan is being simulcast on MPSCS?

itsaawgood · #6 (**permalink**) 01-31-2005, 09:37 PM

No....because the State Troopers are talking to Allegan Central Dispatch directly on 3211....I heard a State Trooper call Allegan Central on their "MAIN" as he called it channel, he was just checking with them to see if his newly programmed radio was working on 3211. The dispatcher responded back that yes his radio was working and that they (Allegan) are now on the 800. MSP do not have Provoice radios in their vehicles...so NO this is not a simulcast...and their old conventional freq's were taken out of service today.

Thunderbolt · #7 (**permalink**) 02-01-2005, 08:27 AM

Then more than likely, what they are doing is "crosspatching/simulcasting" from the 9-1-1 Dispatch talkgroup on the ProVoice TRS over to/on the MPSCS talkgroup 3211. There are several other counties that do the same exact thing.

73’s

Ron

rdale · #8 (**permalink**) 02-01-2005, 11:22 AM

Agreed - if the Allegan officers' radios were transmitting on MPSCS then other ProVoice users would not be hearing them and vice versa. This is a simulcast.

itsaawgood · #9 (**permalink**) 02-01-2005, 10:27 PM

I'm not going to argue with you guys about this....you are not even within monitering range of this system and you are just guessing. I live here and moniter this system probably 16 hours a day. I have already explained it...Allegan went Provoice BUT to be compatible with the nearby agencies their MAIN broadcasts are on the MPSCS system DIRECT!!!!! Not simulcast. It is a very complex system...they have LEIN EAST and LEIN WEST on the MPSCS that is used by the MSP...and they have a totally seperate LEIN EAST and LEIN WEST that is on the Provoice side of the system....they use this for their own county boys. So until you jump in your car drive your butts over here and spend some serious hours monitering this particular system....don't go guessing and giving out FALSE information!!!!! Get out of the mindset that Allegan went Provoice....yes they purchased M/A-COM equipment...but they purchased the P7100 and M7100 units...which do both Provoice and P25. Allegan is using the MPSCS for its MAIN broadcasts for both its county cars and MSP dispatch. Allegan is using the Provoice side of the system for more private stuff and the LEINS for the county.

tarantir · #10 (**permalink**) 02-02-2005, 07:20 AM

Based on what I have heard Allegan County Dispatch is probably transmitting directly on MPSCS as well as their system based on the clear audio I’ve heard on MPSCS. However I would seriously doubt Allegan mobile units are transmitting direct because their audio is slightly garbled/distorted similarly to other departments that have been patched into MPSCS.

rdale · #11 (**permalink**) 02-02-2005, 08:16 AM

So are you saying that when they are transmitting on MPSCS, they are _not_ transmitting on their local system? In that case you are correct, they are not simulcasting. How would you confirm such a thing?

itsaawgood · #12 (**permalink**) 02-02-2005, 09:15 AM

The Allegan units ARE transmitting directly on the MPSCS....the M7100 and P7100 radios are not capable of transmitting on both systems at the same time. I also noticed the distortion on the county units transmissions and my figuring is that we are used to hearing Motorola radios transmitting on the MPSCS....this is a M/A-COM radio that is capable of transmitting in P25 mode....so I believe the audio quality difference is because of the different radio.

bodnarp · #13 (**permalink**) 02-02-2005, 12:56 PM

3211-Dispatch
3357-LEIN EAST
3358-LEIN WEST
3359-TAC Channel

Thunderbolt · #14 (**permalink**) 02-02-2005, 04:04 PM

Has anyone been able to confirm whether or not TG: 3355 is 03COM or not?

73's

Ron

mikey60 · #15 (**permalink**) 02-02-2005, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsaawgood

The Allegan units ARE transmitting directly on the MPSCS....the M7100 and P7100 radios are not capable of transmitting on both systems at the same time. I also noticed the distortion on the county units transmissions and my figuring is that we are used to hearing Motorola radios transmitting on the MPSCS....this is a M/A-COM radio that is capable of transmitting in P25 mode....so I believe the audio quality difference is because of the different radio.

According to the fact sheet on MA/COM's web site , the P7100 radio can do P25 Conventional, ProVoice and EDACS trunking (With an option for Aegis), DES and AES encryption, and analog conventional. P25 trunking is in development according to the fact sheet. Copyright date on the fact sheet says 2005 so it appears to be current.

The M7100 on the other hand does appear to support P25 trunking, so what you are saying there is possible, but I wouldn't expect that to be the case. If they were going to do that, they would have just added towers on the MPSCS, instead of building their own ProVoice system.

As others have said, they are most likely using their ProVoice system, which is linked/patched at the dispatch console to the MPSCS. That would explain the muddy sound from the mobile/portable units, and clear sound from the dispatcher.

This is a very typical configuration, as others have said. You can believe what you want, but until you can get a MA/COM or MPSCS tech to confirm your ideas, I think you'll likely be the only one that believes they are actually using the MPSCS directly.

The best way to confirm your findings, would be to run Pro96com on the tower (if you have a pro-96) where you hear the transmissions. Look to see what radio ID comes up on the talkgroup as transmissions occur. If it changes with each transmission, then they are using the MPSCS direct, if the ID is the same a high percentage of the time, regardless of who you're hearing, then you're hearing a patch between the systems.

Mike

digitalpimp_n · #16 (**permalink**) 02-02-2005, 07:24 PM

As a long time listener i can confirm what itsaawgood is stating. I have the pro-96 in addition to both uniden bearcat 296d and 796d and soon the pro 2096. I too live in Van Buren County and monitor these talkgroups at least 10-15 hours a day. I have a scanner in the cars and throughout the house. Two of which never get turned off. I go to sleep and wake to them. This is total non-sense that it is crosspatching/simulcasting/rebroadcasting ect. This is total stupidity on your part.

I don't try to tell you guy what going on in your neck of the woods for the simpile fact is i don't monitor your area with the same respect i hope that you would stop trying to explain whats going in my area. Not an expert but very experienced not due to the equipment that i own but, the time i've invest in this hobby.

mikey60 · #17 (**permalink**) 02-02-2005, 08:29 PM

Ok.. You want to end this? Prove it to me... It doesn't make sense for them to build a ProVoice system, and then use the MPSCS instead. How could anyone even come close to being able to justify that?

So how can you prove it to me?

Take your Pro-96, connect it to your computer and run Pro96com on the tower that is transmitting these talkgroups. Please be sure to turn on the option to save all log files including the affiliation logs and channel grant logs. When you've run the program for 20-30 minutes with some good traffic on those talkgroups, send those data files to me. If the data supports your beliefs, I'll be happy to say so.

In this area, there have been a number of crosspatches between systems. MA/COM has been pushing their "networkfirst" system for quite some time. This system will interconnect most if not all of the various radio systems together. Oakland county, farmington hills, and MSP did a demo of the system here. Farmington Hills is operating on the Oakland County Opensky system, Oakland County Sheriff is still on an analog Motorola Type II system for now, MSP is of course on the MPSCS.

There is a crosspatch into the MPSCS for Washtenaw county. It's similar to what you describe. Are the using the MPSCS?... NO. Can I hear them on the MPSCS? Yes. Pro96Com shows me the same radio ID on every channel grant because it's a patch. I have little doubt that the Allegan county system is a similar setup. A cross patch only.

Regardless of how it's done, enjoy it for as long as it lasts. I suspect that the dispatcher has the option to remove the patch at will.

Mike

rdale · #18 (**permalink**) 02-02-2005, 09:09 PM

"As a long time listener i can confirm what itsaawgood is stating."

How can you confirm that? Do you have access to a ProVoice radio and you monitor them transmitting on both radios at the same time? It's just not possible...

Thunderbolt · #19 (**permalink**) 02-02-2005, 10:46 PM

Now that "mikey60" mentioned it, I do remember reading somewhere that M/A-COM was going to use their "Networkfirst" technology on the Allegan County TRS. Likewise, they plan on using more it extensively with the future Ingham and Oakland County systems. This is how they promote interoperability with a high-tech patching system.

73's

Ron

garryd451 · #20 (**permalink**) 02-03-2005, 08:51 AM

On his last post Mike60 said this dosen't make sense! We are talking about a government agency spending tax payers money. Why would You think it would have to make sense? When have politicans worried about maning sense?

God, what happened to the good old days, when all you had to do was punched in a frequency or even the older days when all you had to do buy a crsytal and pop it in your scanner.