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Military Monitoring Forum - Discussions regarding monitoring military communications on the ground, in air and at sea. Please keep USCG discussion to this forum also.

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Old 01-27-2017, 10:52 AM
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Lightbulb I heard a POACHER last night... on FM 68.45

I heard some POACHERs whispering last night... on FM 68.45, PL 151.4.

Apparently they're hunting something called a "pax". Must be outta season cause they let one pass by on the trail without shooting it.

OR.......

it could mean that Fightin' Season started early this year in central NC

The point you ask? (other than broadcasting my shameless pride over the vindication of my SIGINT TTPs?)

The point is folks, Low-Band is most often described as 30-54 mHz, but that, I suspect, is more a function of what the standard OTS equipment is capable of. Some groups think of it as 30-87mHz. The current reports I can find of 54-87 usage I can count on one hand. Once again I suspect this is because few have receivers that cover that range. But many do, ones that people may not realize are capable and are under-utilizing them ie: BC346XT, BR330T etc. And for nuts like me, I can personally confirm that there is a reason to track one down.

So there is something worthwhile on those "useless" frequencies, ya just gotta set the modulation properly, and have waaayyyy too much time to kill sitting in the middle of nowhere, waiting...dress warm.
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Old 01-27-2017, 11:22 AM
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I've noticed there are a few CCR's that will work in this range. Wondered if anyone unknowingly bought them and was using them.
Considering there is some public safety site to site linking in the 72MHz range around here, I'd say there is often something to listen to in this band.
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Old 01-27-2017, 12:31 PM
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In So Cal their used to be a lot of Army helo ops out of Los Alamitos air field on 65.05MHz and 62.85MHz is also listed. The PL tone would be 150.0Hz and not 151.4Hz.
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Old 01-27-2017, 2:24 PM
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Default thx for the replys

Quote:
I've noticed there are a few CCR's that will work in this range.
you can imagine where i get googling CCR and radio, so could you please educate the ignorant?


Quote:
Originally Posted by prcguy View Post
In So Cal their *****used to be***** a lot of Army helo ops out of Los Alamitos air field on 65.05MHz and 62.85MHz is also listed. The PL tone would be 150.0Hz and not 151.4Hz.
prcguy
*****used to be***** key phrase. current reports i find of this range are limited to basically the lowcountry guy in SC, previous KFBG NOTAMs mentioning 69.5, 6x.x75 used for RAPTOR tower and about a year ago overheard these same folks mention 68.75 as Battalion Cmd. i threw in the 151.4 (cause uniden doesn't do 150.0 as you know) so those in the know would know. don't want to burn up all my fun by not being discrete.

I appreciate the info nonetheless and actually don't recall having come across those two specifically, but will add them as i have found there seems to be a lot of duplication even when the options are near unlimited.

also i appreciate the lone sympathy chuckle on the SINGCARS boop/beep bit, which is related to my next question. the aforementioned Tx's were definitely ground to ground, you can just take me at my word on that. everything nice and in the clear, ie no encryption. one side nearly unreadable, the other nice and clear, enough that the 151.4 decoded, all this says simplex, no repeater and all of the other obvious parts.

now i have little experience with the manpack/handhelds of your average groundpounders, but am of the impression you are the prcguy for a reason. so the vast majority of milcom i hear is in the clear, non-SINGCARS. SINGCARS actually the exception. but in this case and considering the freq range i was really expecting it. any insight into what radios might have been used? MBTIR etc ? and with SINGCARS capable radios i have assumed that anything in the clear would have the beep/boop otherwise it would defeat the purpose. am i completely ignorant as to how these things are setup/operate as i fear i am?
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Old 01-27-2017, 2:27 PM
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Originally Posted by spacellamaman View Post
you can imagine where i get googling CCR and radio, so could you please educate the ignorant?

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Old 01-27-2017, 3:31 PM
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Yes, I am the prcguy for a reason. I suspect our local Army helo stuff is still on the air, I just haven't monitored in a few years. I'll set up a radio today and let it run on the 60MHz channels for awhile.

You mentioned the poachers were whispering and that kind of rules out an aircraft, so its probably ground grunts. The radios could be any of the modern manpacks or handhelds or from the several different versions of the SINCGARS manpacks to the PRC-117 series or MBITRs, PRC-152s or vehicle mounted versions of those.

How far do you live from a military base? I lived in Co Springs, CO for awhile and would hear guards on PRC-77s that were 30-40mi away. The other day I was listening to some Camp Pendleton traffic on VHF lo band that is a good 60mi from me.
prcguy


Quote:
Originally Posted by spacellamaman View Post
you can imagine where i get googling CCR and radio, so could you please educate the ignorant?




*****used to be***** key phrase. current reports i find of this range are limited to basically the lowcountry guy in SC, previous KFBG NOTAMs mentioning 69.5, 6x.x75 used for RAPTOR tower and about a year ago overheard these same folks mention 68.75 as Battalion Cmd. i threw in the 151.4 (cause uniden doesn't do 150.0 as you know) so those in the know would know. don't want to burn up all my fun by not being discrete.

I appreciate the info nonetheless and actually don't recall having come across those two specifically, but will add them as i have found there seems to be a lot of duplication even when the options are near unlimited.

also i appreciate the lone sympathy chuckle on the SINGCARS boop/beep bit, which is related to my next question. the aforementioned Tx's were definitely ground to ground, you can just take me at my word on that. everything nice and in the clear, ie no encryption. one side nearly unreadable, the other nice and clear, enough that the 151.4 decoded, all this says simplex, no repeater and all of the other obvious parts.

now i have little experience with the manpack/handhelds of your average groundpounders, but am of the impression you are the prcguy for a reason. so the vast majority of milcom i hear is in the clear, non-SINGCARS. SINGCARS actually the exception. but in this case and considering the freq range i was really expecting it. any insight into what radios might have been used? MBTIR etc ? and with SINGCARS capable radios i have assumed that anything in the clear would have the beep/boop otherwise it would defeat the purpose. am i completely ignorant as to how these things are setup/operate as i fear i am?
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Old 01-30-2017, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prcguy View Post
Yes, I am the prcguy for a reason. I suspect our local Army helo stuff is still on the air, I just haven't monitored in a few years. I'll set up a radio today and let it run on the 60MHz channels for awhile.
I appreciate it, I don't doubt that its in use, I just have not come across any reports in my area before.

Quote:
You mentioned the poachers were whispering and that kind of rules out an aircraft, so its probably ground grunts. The radios could be any of the modern manpacks or handhelds or from the several different versions of the SINCGARS manpacks to the PRC-117 series or MBITRs, PRC-152s or vehicle mounted versions of those.
yeah i am pretty certain of that it is ground comms, Air to ground low band I catch all the time and am very familiar with it and is simple enough to catch. this was a security/OP check in of some type "Roger, RNS control, 1 pax down the trail" "establish comms at 2345 over" etc. Perhaps a clue to the type of radio is there is a distinct steady grinding hum/oscillating buzz in the background as long as the mic is keyed down.

Quote:
How far do you live from a military base? I lived in Co Springs, CO for awhile and would hear guards on PRC-77s that were 30-40mi away. The other day I was listening to some Camp Pendleton traffic on VHF lo band that is a good 60mi from me.
prcguy
to help clarify things without directly mentioning them, the following link should explain all.

https://www.google.com/search?q=%22s...=nws&tbs=qdr:m

i live right smack in the middle of it, and one of my main hobbies is following it, or at least learning how to.

additional notes:

sitting on the edge of a river in the area of operations, with a 48" mag mount whip on the roof of my car, moving the car about 15 feet between Tx's improved reception of one side considerably and lost the other side completely. of course it was an hour between transmissions so my movement could have been irrelevant.

i am wondering if the hum is related to the radio or possibly to its power source, though the whispering/low voice and no backgound racket, like vehicle noise, kinda implies batteries.

during the last round, on top of a mountain with a long wire tossed in a tree i caught ground to ground on 41.5 but no hum, just clear voice comms, but it had the SINGCARS beep/boop too. I would like to try and figure out what all equipment is used specifically on the ground so i can better adjust my equipment utilization, more accurately estimate the range from the source, and, i suppose, just for my own gratification.

when i find pics like this:

http://i.imgur.com/368COGt.jpg

i start to wonder am i 10 miles away or two?
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Old 01-30-2017, 11:45 AM
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You mention they said "establish comms at 2345 over", that is known as "uniform sequence" or 234.5MHz. I suspect you may have heard comms on 234.5MHz soon after the comment. That is a common chit chat frequency as is "victor sequence" or 123.45MHz and the military guys have used the uniform or victor prefix to fool the enemy when selecting frequencies since the Vietnam war era.

All the military radios in the 30 to 90MHz range with 150Hz tone squelch have the tone deviation set around 3KHz and it makes a very loud buzz in most scanners or ham radios. In contrast the tone deviation in a commercial or amateur radio is closer to 500Hz deviation these days.

The picture in the second link you provided is of a Thales PRC-148 or MBITR which covers 30 to 512Mhz continuous AM and FM. There is a 1M blade antenna on that one which would usually mean they are using the 30 to 90MHz range. I love picking up military traffic and it looks like a lot of fun to be had monitoring in your area this week.

BTW, I've been monitoring my local 65.05MHz frequency continuous for several days (using a clear version MBITR) and nothing yet. I'll let it run for a week to see if anything shows up.
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Old 02-02-2017, 10:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prcguy View Post
You mention they said "establish comms at 2345 over", that is known as "uniform sequence" or 234.5MHz.
prcguy
Or that's known as "let's talk again at 2345 hours" local or Zulu.
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Old 02-27-2017, 5:21 PM
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If you change the IF filters in most scanners which cover the 30-88 MHz frequency range, you will be able to listen the (normal) wideband milcom without the annoying buzz.

But, keep in mind this change effects most all frequencies in a radio.
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Old 02-28-2017, 1:45 PM
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thanks for all the replies folks and sorry just now responding to them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by prcguy View Post
You mention they said "establish comms at 2345 over", that is known as "uniform sequence" or 234.5MHz. I suspect you may have heard comms on 234.5MHz soon after the comment. That is a common chit chat frequency as is "victor sequence" or 123.45MHz and the military guys have used the uniform or victor prefix to fool the enemy when selecting frequencies since the Vietnam war era.
interesting info, and i wasn't aware of the terminology or background story. however in this case,

Quote:
Or that's known as "let's talk again at 2345 hours" local or Zulu.
is presumably the right answer as it was 2245 local when this was said and the perimeter security elements usually do hourly check-ins. though i have punched in 234.5 into my scanners now as it sounded like a good one to try out and as of a few days ago got a hit on it, unrelated to the exercise of course, but clearly one i should have had already programed in.

Quote:
All the military radios in the 30 to 90MHz range with 150Hz tone squelch have the tone deviation set around 3KHz and it makes a very loud buzz in most scanners or ham radios. In contrast the tone deviation in a commercial or amateur radio is closer to 500Hz deviation these days.
ah well that explains that, much obliged.

Quote:
The picture in the second link you provided is of a Thales PRC-148 or MBITR which covers 30 to 512Mhz continuous AM and FM. There is a 1M blade antenna on that one which would usually mean they are using the 30 to 90MHz range.
excellent, the antenna is what got my attention the first time i saw it, and also why i wanted you to see it. i knew it had to be for lowband as it was rediculously cumbersome and i can't see anyone using a monster like that unless they needed to.

my setup at the time was a 48inch whip mag-mount fed through the sunroof, placed dead center of the roof metal of a honda civic. i was at the lowest elevation possible for the area, the waters edge, and therefore had no advantage of height for Rx. any speculation as to probable maximum distance i could have been if this was via a handheld PRC-148 or similar? it was a dead still eve with no wind but the signal, while good did vary enough to make me think it wasn't coming off a fixed/mast mount antenna. as i only know what i have read but have no real world experience, i realize the range numbers, say 5 to 10 kilometers, under these conditions would likely be much shorter range. does that sound about right?

Quote:
I love picking up military traffic and it looks like a lot of fun to be had monitoring in your area this week.
i agree completely, and it was. i am starting to think i need an assistant though as its getting to be too much for one person to juggle at once. more and more areas are being found that require attention such as 54-88 needing to be covered and having only one scanner capable, which i really need to utilize for other things, but oh well, thats why i bought it, its 54-88 capability.

68.45 was not a fluke. on 2/1/17 i picked up A2A of unknown helos on 69.275FM talking to and about transiting KVUJ enroute to KGSO. then i discovered the lo-band "beacons". whoops now another scanner has to be rededicated to a new task. my car looks so rediculous since i am now having to draft ancient base stations to plug the holes. a backseat lined with homemade battery packs running a hodgepoge of thrift store base-station scanners, each complete with its own antenna extended as far as the car roof will allow. it makes for interesting conversations at late night police license/DWI checkpoints.


Quote:
If you change the IF filters in most scanners which cover the 30-88 MHz frequency range, you will be able to listen the (normal) wideband milcom without the annoying buzz.

But, keep in mind this change effects most all frequencies in a radio.
thanks for the info but it doesn't bother me, i just see it as a data point and consider it actually helpful. plus my messing around with the innerds of any of my scanners.... quicker to just drive over it with the car cause the result would be the same
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Old 12-01-2017, 10:43 PM
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These radios will do 68.4500 MHz FM and i doubt that there would be any problem getting them from china and delivered to united states.
Ive purchased some FDC radios from china and they came wrapped in green paper and sticker called it a gift, i dont think they are inspected to the point of knowing if use in this country is illegal, the FDC radios i purchased in 2008 had no FCC stickers on them.
https://www.409shop.com/409shop_product.php?id=103342
https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/66-88mhz-radio.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baYpwvMz1sU

Chinese PMR transceivers such as the:
Wouxun KG-699E 4m (66–88 MHz)
KG-UVD1P1LV DUAL BAND (TX/RX 66–88 MHz / 136–174 MHz)
Handheld Transceivers to Western countries is mainly so far in the UK and mainland Europe.
Qixiang Electronics, the makers of the AnyTone and MyDel transceivers, have exported the AnyTone 5189 PMR 4m Mobile, and the AnyTone 3308 Handheld (66–88 MHz) transceivers from China to the UK and to Europe.
Both Transceivers have been selling extensively well in the UK and in Europe.

Countries in which operation is permitted:
Bahrain (69.900–70.400 MHz)
Belgium (69.950 MHz center frequency, 70.125–70.4125)
Bulgaria (70–70.5 MHz)
Croatia (70.000–70.450 MHz)
Czech Republic (70.100–70.300 MHz)
Denmark (69.9875–70.0625, 70.0875–70.1125, 70.1875–70.2875, 70.3125–70.3875 and 70.4125–70.5125 MHz)
Estonia (70.140–70.300 MHz)
Faroe Islands (69.950–70.500 MHz)
Finland (70.000–70.300 MHz)
Greece (70.000–70.250 MHz)
Greenland (70.000–70.500 MHz)
Hungary (70.000–70.500 MHz)
Ireland (Republic of) (70.125–70.450 MHz)
Italy (70.0875–70.1125, 70.1875–70.2125 and 70.2875–70.3125 MHz)
Latvia (70.000–70.500 MHz)
Luxembourg (70.150–70.250 MHz)
Monaco (70.000–70.500 MHz)
Namibia (70.000–70.300 MHz)
Netherlands (70.000–70.500 MHz)
Norway (70.0625–70.0875, 70.1375–70.1875, 70.2625–70.3125, 70.3625–70.3875 and 70.4125–70.4625 MHz)
Poland (70.1–70.3 MHz)
Portugal (70.1570–70.2125 and 70.2375–70.2875 MHz)
Azores (70.1570–70.2125 and 70.2375–70.2875 MHz)
Madeira (70.1570–70.2125 and 70.2375–70.2875 MHz)
Romania (70.000–70.300 MHz)
Slovakia (70.250–70.350 MHz)
Slovenia (70.000–70.450 MHz)
Somalia (70.000–70.500 MHz)
South Africa (70.000–70.300 MHz)
Spain (70.150 and 70.200 MHz)
UAE (70.000–70.500 MHz)
United Kingdom (70.000–70.500 MHz)
Gibraltar (70.000–70.500 MHz)
Guernsey (70.000–70.500 MHz)
Isle of Man (70.000–70.500 MHz)
Jersey (70.000–70.500 MHz)
St. Helena (70.000–70.500 MHz)
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Old 12-06-2017, 11:56 AM
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From your past postings, I understand you are near the KVUJ/ Uwharrie NF area of NC.
This is the Ft.Bragg/SF happy hunting area.
There are lots of small team infantry exercises in this area.

SF uses lots of low Vhf radios for tactical field comms.

The annual Peoples Republic of Pineland SFexercise occurs in this area.

Apparently you stumbled onto a field exercise on 68 Mhz.

I think what you heard were the "defenders" in a classic L shaped ambush setup along a trail
The talker you heard was the lookout is the foot of the L alerting the kill team to be ready., the kill team was the long arm of the L along the trail
The lookout was telling the main ambush team that one aggressor "one past" (PAX) had passed him going into to kill zone of the ambush.

He was whispering into the mike to cut down on the chance he might be overheard by the aggressor team.
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Old 12-07-2017, 8:19 AM
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In the US 72-76 mhz is still permitted, 2 watts max on mobile and portables, and up to 100 watts on a base or repeater. They were mostly used for links, but could be licensed for base mobile operation. I knew of a warehouse that had Midland mobiles on their forklifts. I still have about a dozen Midland Syntech I 30 watt 88 channel mobiles I used as receivers for my paging system in the 90's since a Mot Micor RX was about $1,800.00 and these mobiles were under $300.00 in bulk purchase.

May have to try and mod the programmer for under 70 mhz and make use of them for monitoring.
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