Duluth and ARMER

tvdxer · #1 (**permalink**) 09-01-2009, 11:37 PM

Any idea on when the Duluth PS agencies (Police and Fire) and those in the surrounding area (St. Louis County Sheriff / Fire, Carlton County Sheriff, etc.) will be switching to the ARMER system? It seems like the State Patrol is the only agency locally that uses digital, while all the others are still full-fledged 155 MHz analog.

mmtstc · #2 (**permalink**) 09-05-2009, 03:08 PM

I wouldn't imagine it will be anytime within the next year and a half, but I have no clue. Right now it is only a partial simulcast of State Patrol's VHF asset and possibly the occasional traveling unit from elsewhere in the state. first stage is testing the system for holes and other issues before you give it to end users who rely on it for their personal safety... Money being as tight as it is, i would also assume that would retard that current pace also... In good time it will happen...

tvdxer · #3 (**permalink**) 09-05-2009, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mmtstc

I wouldn't imagine it will be anytime within the next year and a half, but I have no clue. Right now it is only a partial simulcast of State Patrol's VHF asset and possibly the occasional traveling unit from elsewhere in the state. first stage is testing the system for holes and other issues before you give it to end users who rely on it for their personal safety... Money being as tight as it is, i would also assume that would retard that current pace also... In good time it will happen...

The State Patrol is still on VHF?

I thought they were digital-only up here...I never hear anything on 154.920 any more, but then again, I rarely check. That was one of the most boring channels, pretty much all traffic stops.

jdm911 · #4 (**permalink**) 09-07-2009, 09:15 AM

mmtstc is correct, the only tg in use on a regular basis is 36500 and that is only the dispatch side of the conversation (sounds like an audio patch only).

NDRADIONUT · #5 (**permalink**) 09-07-2009, 08:51 PM

I doubt st louis co will switch over....

stcloudmn · #6 (**permalink**) 09-14-2009, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NDRADIONUT

I doubt st louis co will switch over....

The counties really don't have much of a choice. Its a STATEWIDE mandated plan. The whole point of it is to have every agency in the state on this system. It was adapted in 2002 as an anti-terrorism legislation. The system was to be completed in 2007 which obviously hasn't happened do to the economic deficit and technical issues but will expect it to be completed in the next several years.

NDRADIONUT · #7 (**permalink**) 09-14-2009, 08:15 PM

The state is out of money ... Their mandates mean nothing !

stcloudmn · #8 (**permalink**) 09-14-2009, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NDRADIONUT

The state is out of money ... Their mandates mean nothing !

I just read up on the financial situation and there is money set aside (grants) for this project and more money is on the way. I'm not an expert on this but have been following its progress pretty closely. There is still a long way to go. I also saw something about using 700mhz but who knows with this state.

mmtstc · #9 (**permalink**) 09-15-2009, 12:10 AM

There isnt any mandate that says they have to switch to ARMER, but the incentive is that if they join ARMER, they get Homeland security money for interop.

The only mandate is that they have to switch to Narrowband, and with federal monies to help, outfitting an entire county with radios can be rather spendy...

ARMER is a cheaper solution and more effective solution to the NFM mandate...

stcloudmn · #10 (**permalink**) 09-15-2009, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mmtstc

There isnt any mandate that says they have to switch to ARMER, but the incentive is that if they join ARMER, they get Homeland security money for interop.

The only mandate is that they have to switch to Narrowband, and with federal monies to help, outfitting an entire county with radios can be rather spendy...

ARMER is a cheaper solution and more effective solution to the NFM mandate...

Alright, i agree it would be a smart decision for both financial reasons and interoperability to switch to digital. I believe the state will have towers that will cover most of the state and the only thing they would have to buy is radios or repeaters for local enhancement. There is allot of information on this and it can get very confusing. Allot of good information on the SRB website. I wish it was more affordable for ham radio users. Its a very nice system.

vf702 · #11 (**permalink**) 09-15-2009, 08:54 PM

ARMER is not necessarily cheaper but you can't compare apples to oranges. Local agencies will have to make expensive improvements to the ARMER backbone to improve coverage and capacity, but counties are weighing the cost of improving their existing systems (many are in embarrassingly poor condition) and being in a communications black hole versus going to the ARMER system and being able to communicate with other users across the state. The decision process is not going to be easy, but grant funds and real interoperability is driving people to ARMER.

kb0nly · #12 (**permalink**) 09-18-2009, 02:58 AM

Just wanted to comment on this...

We vacation to the Duluth/Two Harbors area a couple times a year, have family up there. Last time i was up there, in the end of July, all the action was still on analog VHF. There was a little activity on the new Armer system, but not much. Mainly the HP talkgroup and a couple that sounded like city operations of some kind.

Down here Armer is going to be a while... Our county, Lincoln County, just upgraded to VHF Digital a couple years back and that took an act of god, well close to it, to get them to upgrade. We are actually the ONLY county in this part of the state using P25, everyone else is analog yet.

Looking at the Armer plans online, you can view the full system specs, tower sites, construction deadlines, etc, anyway i was looking at the plans for our area down here and they want to add another 4-5 tower sites along with a couple microwave relay sites to get the same coverage with Armer that we get now. It took them long enough to get the digital coverage decent and they had to add three voter sites to make that happen. Those sites are supposed to be revamped to support the Armer system if/when it happens. Problem is the county spent all their grant money upgrading the infrastructure, new radios throughout the county, and a new jail/dispatch center. So unless the state is paying for the whole project here they are saying its not going to happen.

The state is pushing for everyone to get on the new system, but its not a requirement or mandate. I read through the paperwork the county has on file for this debate. They are saying it won't be economically viable for the area and will not provide the needed coverage. They tried a 800Mhz test system years ago in a neighboring county, they gave up when nobody would use the new radios because they couldn't be heard, its takes a lot of sites to make it reliable in the hills we have around here.

The South Dakota statewide radio system is a bit of a joke in places too. Ask anyone in Moody County, the officers there usually resort to using their cell phones to get out, Verizon has better coverage then the statewide radio system does. I saw this first hand, we had our Amateur Radio Field Day in a city park in Flandreau, one of the sheriff's deputies was interested and visiting us, whenever he tried to use his radio to respond to dispatch or call them he got an out of range warning and went to his cell phone. And SD is on VHF! I couldn't imagine the finicky 800Mhz band doing any better.

I see a couple posts up the mention of 700Mhz, i heard them saying that at one time also but researched it, the plans are not to use that band, its all going to be in the public safety portion of 800Mhz, including the use of some of the vacated frequencies they regained with the death of analog cellular coverage in the state.