New Ameren 800 MHz P25 TRS

[kruser]

Originally Posted by semo

I am picking up site 3201 on 858.4625. Unknown location.

Look at site number 963 in the Ameren P25 database. AmerenMissouri (P25) Trunking System, St Louis Metro Area/E MO, Multi-State - Scanner Frequencies
It shows that frequency and is in Marston in New Madrid County.

I bet that is the site you are getting.

They are still using the Edacs sites here but the P25 activity seems to be picking up the greater of the talk now.

If you have two radios, you can listen to the edacs sites in your area and see if they are simulcasting the chatter from the P25 site you found back on one or more of the edacs sites.
That's a good way of determining the talkgroup as they are not very well documented on the P25 sites yet. Especially away from the St. Louis area.

Of course if the talkgroups are not listed in the Edacs database, that will not help you much.
Many of the P25 talkgroups that have been found are just using a generic description.
It is a hard system to figure out what a talkgroup is called going on what you hear alone.
When there are outages in my area at the substation I can see out my window, they can show up on many different TG's. I've always felt they may assign TG's to a "crew" working the area.

So when there is an outage here, I can't just monitor say North County as they may not use that TG that time. It seems very random around here.

Some TG's are commonly used like when a crew calls in that they are complete and ready to close a switch or something or calling dispatch so they can bring a line hot remotely.
Or crews working meter inspections in the city, they seem to always be on the same TG.

[wb0wao]

The Cape Girardeau site has switched over to P25 - I don't have a digital scanner to confirm this, but there is nothing on the old EDACS system, and the control channel has a much different sound to it now.

[semo]

Originally Posted by wb0wao

The Cape Girardeau site has switched over to P25 - I don't have a digital scanner to confirm this, but there is nothing on the old EDACS system, and the control channel has a much different sound to it now.

I have logged these the last few days. Pro96com doesnt show alt channels and they seem to change like edacs control channels do.

control site
854.0625 28-001
854.7625 24-001
855.9125 31-001

[kruser]

Originally Posted by semo

I have logged these the last few days. Pro96com doesnt show alt channels and they seem to change like edacs control channels do.

control site
854.0625 28-001
854.7625 24-001
855.9125 31-001

That's odd as the Alt's show up here on the Ameren P25 sites in Pro96com that I can receive. I can hear about 6 sites at least from my home location.
I also do not see them changing the CC's on the P25 sites here. Maybe they are still working out the bugs on that new P25 site?

Is your copy of Pro96com the latest version? I have seen some MOSWIN sites not show the Alt CC's but most seem to pull that data from the CC stream.

[Starcom21]

Please try to get site NAC tones too please.

Uniden - don't know

GRE - Shows up as Nxxx on Control Channel display or tune mode

thanks!

[kruser]

Originally Posted by Starcom21

Please try to get site NAC tones too please.

Uniden - don't know

GRE - Shows up as Nxxx on Control Channel display or tune mode

thanks!

I cannot get my Uniden 996XT to show NAC tones for anything. I even did a manual direct entry of the Starcom Madison County site and it asked what the audio type was so I selected digital. It then asked if I'd like to enter a NAC tone or search for the NAC. I told it to search but I sure can't find where that info may be displayed. All it shows is the system ID and tower ID. I even ran Pro96com on the CC data but no NAC displayed there either. I then tried Proscan logging but still no NAC shown.
The PSR600 does show the NAC as 14E for Madison County.
I guess I'll need to try and remember to fire up the PSR600 when I'm getting NAC codes.
I wonder if Unitrunker may display that info when using a Uniden. I may try that over the upcoming weekend.

[Unitrunker]

Originally Posted by kruser

I wonder if Unitrunker may display that info when using a Uniden. I may try that over the upcoming weekend.

Nope, sorry. You'll need discriminator audio, a PSR800, or an HP1E. Most inline models strip out the NAC when streaming control channel data.

[Chauffeur6]

Originally Posted by kruser

I cannot get my Uniden 996XT to show NAC tones for anything. I even did a manual direct entry of the Starcom Madison County site and it asked what the audio type was so I selected digital. It then asked if I'd like to enter a NAC tone or search for the NAC. I told it to search but I sure can't find where that info may be displayed. All it shows is the system ID and tower ID. I even ran Pro96com on the CC data but no NAC displayed there either. I then tried Proscan logging but still no NAC shown.

Are you trying that on the control channel frequency? If so, it's not going to work. Program some of the voice channel frequencies in conventional mode with NAC Search enabled, and when there is a transmission it will display the NAC that's in use. The NAC should be the same for all voice channel frequencies at a given site.

[kruser]

Originally Posted by Unitrunker

Nope, sorry. You'll need discriminator audio, a PSR800, or an HP1E. Most inline models strip out the NAC when streaming control channel data.

Gee, you took all the fun away! Na, just kidding and I thank you for letting me know before I wasted my time trying.

I'll just use the PSR-600 when I need the NAC info for Terry's needs.

Wait, if I'm reading your reply correctly, I can see the NAC as long as I'm using Unitrunker with true discriminator audio correct?
That's easy enough as I have a ton of non digital scanners with discriminator taps.

[kruser]

Originally Posted by Chauffeur6

Are you trying that on the control channel frequency? If so, it's not going to work. Program some of the voice channel frequencies in conventional mode with NAC Search enabled, and when there is a transmission it will display the NAC that's in use. The NAC should be the same for all voice channel frequencies at a given site.

Great! Thanks for that info. I knew there must be a way otherwise why even have the NAC search setting if it does not display the results on the screen.
Does the 996 or 396 need to be in a certain "display mode" in order to see the NAC. Like Mode 1 or 2? Mode 3 just shows the system activity on the 3rd line while mode 1 or 2 shows more useful info like the actual frequency the radio tuned to or the talkgroup. I always forget which display mode shows what info other than mode 3 which I never use.
I would think mode 1 as that shows other info like LNK, ENC, P25 etc. along with the tuned frequency. At least when you are scanning a P25 trunked system.

Edit: Wow, it worked! The display mode does not seem to matter.
As long as you are tuned to a voice frequency in conventional mode with the freq set as digital only and then select NAC Search like your instructions say.
I thought my Icom R2500 displayed the NAC also but I can only see the TG and Radio ID on its display.
Oh well, now I know how to get the NAC when I only have a Uniden running.

[Chauffeur6]

Originally Posted by kruser

Wait, if I'm reading your reply correctly, I can see the NAC as long as I'm using Unitrunker with true discriminator audio correct?

If you run Unitrunker on the control channel using a tapped scanner/receiver, you will see the NAC on the Info tab of the Site window. It usually shows up in two places on that screen, towards the top in the Access column, and towards the bottom in the NAC column.

Originally Posted by kruser

Great! Thanks for that info. I knew there must be a way otherwise why even have the NAC search setting if it does not display the results on the screen.
Does the 996 or 396 need to be in a certain "display mode" in order to see the NAC. Like Mode 1 or 2? Mode 3 just shows the system activity on the 3rd line while mode 1 or 2 shows more useful info like the actual frequency the radio tuned to or the talkgroup. I always forget which display mode shows what info other than mode 3 which I never use.
I would think mode 1 as that shows other info like LNK, ENC, P25 etc. along with the tuned frequency. At least when you are scanning a P25 trunked system.

Edit: Wow, it worked! The display mode does not seem to matter.
As long as you are tuned to a voice frequency in conventional mode with the freq set as digital only and then select NAC Search like your instructions say.
I thought my Icom R2500 displayed the NAC also but I can only see the TG and Radio ID on its display.
Oh well, now I know how to get the NAC when I only have a Uniden running.

The display mode shouldn't matter. The key is to monitor the voice channel frequencies in digital/NAC search mode so that the scanner can decode the NAC. When you listen to a P25 trunked system voice frequency in conventional mode, the scanner treats it no differently than a standard conventional P25 frequency. In fact, it doesn't even know it's part of a trunked system, nor does it care.

You can do the same thing with Motorola Type II systems that use the P25 CAI, if you want to figure out the NAC. Unitrunker does not decode the Site NAC for Motorola systems, so I'm pretty sure that's the only way to figure it out.