RadioReference on Facebook   RadioReference on Twitter   RadioReference Blog
 

Go Back   The RadioReference.com Forums > U.S. Regional Radio Discussion Forums > Missouri Radio Discussion Forum

Missouri Radio Discussion Forum Forum for discussing Radio Information in the State of Missouri.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 07-07-2011, 6:33 PM
kb0rpj's Avatar
Member
  Audio Feed Provider
Audio Feed Provider
Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: north central mo
Posts: 151
Default modot frequency changes?

does anyone know if modot will be changing frequencies to come into the line with the new districts?

in other words, will Harris and Avalon move from 151.040 to 151.130?
Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 07-21-2011, 9:12 AM
Member
   
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Clinton County, MO
Posts: 674
Default

My guess would be that they'll just remain on whatever frequency they're currently using, and add either additional control stations or wireline facilities so that whichever district office can talk on the towers in the areas they previously had no responsibility for.

If they were on a trunking system, this would probably be a simple matter of moving everyone to the same talk group.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 02-18-2013, 7:46 PM
Member
   
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Clinton County, MO
Posts: 674
Default MODOT District Map and Frequencies

With the possibility of winter weather mid to late week, I put together some MODOT repeater frequencies.

I haven't listened to MODOT in years and checked back in recently to see if anything had changed.

After monitoring a couple days, I noticed that the 156.7 tone that was once common was never logged. Another thing I noticed is that much of the truck-to-truck chatter seems to be simplex now.

All the simplex traffic I heard used a PL of 123.0 Hz ......mainly on 151.04 MHz in the Kansas City area.

I identified a PL tone of 141.3 Hz used on 151.13 MHz - Martinsville repeater in the NW District.
And identified a PL tone of 167.9 used on 151.07 MHz - Kansas City repeater in the Kansas City District.

It will take more listening to find a pattern, but I'm wondering if each district now uses a common repeater output tone throughout the district regardless of the repeater output frequency?.....and maybe the 123.0 PL is simplex statewide ?

In the past, district headquarters would broadcast winter weather advisories separately on each tower in the district, identifying the tower name before the advisory. The next few days might be a good time to collect that information.


MODOT District Map

MODOT highband repeaters sorted by county:
Code:
Call    City                 County      Frequency
--------------------------------------------------
KTQ252  MEXICO               AUDRAIN     151.07000
KJI573  RIDGELEY             BARRY       151.13000
WNZU579 COLE CAMP            BENTON      151.04000
WNZU579 COLE CAMP            BENTON      156.13500
KFN582  ASHLAND              BOONE       151.13000
WQPI268 ASHLAND              BOONE       151.12250
KFN580  SAINT JOSEPH         BUCHANAN    151.13000
KJI572  POPLAR BLUFF         BUTLER      151.13000
KJI572  POPLAR BLUFF         BUTLER      151.07000
KFN615  MACKS CREEK          CAMDEN      151.04000
KFN615  MACKS CREEK          CAMDEN      151.07000
KFN615  MACKS CREEK          CAMDEN      151.13000
WQPI268 MACK'S CREEK         CAMDEN      151.12250
KJI569  JERICO SPRINGS       CEDAR       151.13000
KLP804  FAIRMONT             CLARK       151.07000
WQAW717 JEFFERSON CITY       COLE        151.11500
KFK599  LEASBURG             CRAWFORD    151.04000
KFK599  LEASBURG             CRAWFORD    151.07000
WQPI635 LEASBURG             CRAWFORD    151.12250
KJI568  STRAFFORD            GREENE      151.04000
KGY337  MARTINSVILLE         HARRISON    151.13000
KFN616  URICH                HENRY       151.07000
KFN616  URICH                HENRY       151.13000
WNKK785 FAYETTE              HOWARD      151.04000
WQPI635 FAYETTE              HOWARD      151.12250
KFN583  ARCADIA              IRON        151.04000
KFN583  ARCADIA              IRON        151.07000
KFN583  ARCADIA              IRON        151.13000
KFN579  KANSAS CITY          JACKSON     151.10000
KFN579  KANSAS CITY          JACKSON     151.04000
KFN579  KANSAS CITY          JACKSON     151.07000
KJI570  AVILLA               JASPER      151.13000
WPKA630 HOUSE SPRINGS        JEFFERSON   151.38500
KFN618  HOUSE SPRINGS        JEFFERSON   151.04000
WPBM262 LEBANON              LACLEDE     151.04000
WQPI635 LEBANON              LACLEDE     151.12250
KLP805  AVALON               LIVINGSTON  151.04000
KLP808  MACON                MACON       151.04000
KFM318  FREEBURG             MARIES      151.13000
WQPI268 FREEBURG             MARIES      151.12250
KLP802  HANNIBAL             MARION      151.07000
KGY338  QUITMAN              NODAWAY     151.13000
KLP799  ALTON                OREGON      151.07000
KLP801  ROMANCE              OZARK       151.04000
WPBG964 ROMANCE              OZARK       151.07000
KJI571  WARDELL              PEMISCOT    151.13000
KEG752  PERRYVILLE           PERRY       151.13000
KFN617  HUGHESVILLE          PETTIS      151.13000
KFN617  HUGHESVILLE          PETTIS      151.07000
KFN617  HUGHESVILLE          PETTIS      151.04000
WQPI268 HUGHESVILLE          PETTIS      151.12250
KJI567  FLAT                 PHELPS      151.04000
KJI567  FLAT                 PHELPS      151.07000
WQPI268 FLAT                 PHELPS      151.12250
KLP803  EOLIA                PIKE        151.07000
WNDT954 PLATTE CITY          PLATTE      151.07000
WPTA220 HUMANSVILLE          POLK        151.04000
WPTD400 HUMANSVILLE          POLK        151.04000
KFO781  POLO                 RAY         151.07000
KFO781  POLO                 RAY         151.13000
KLP807  QUEEN CITY           SCHUYLER    151.04000
WQQN285 SIKESTON             SCOTT       151.13000
KLP800  WINONA               SHANNON     151.07000
WNMU761 TOWN AND COUNTRY     ST. LOUIS   151.38500
WQBF264 CHESTERFIELD         ST. LOUIS   158.99250
KJI565  BELL CITY            STODDARD    151.13000
KLP906  HARRIS               SULLIVAN    151.04000
KJI566  BRANSON              TANEY       151.04000
KFN581  WARRENTON            WARREN      151.04000
KFN581  WARRENTON            WARREN      151.13000
KFN581  WARRENTON            WARREN      151.07000
WQPI268 WARRENTON            WARREN      151.12250
KLP798  MOUNTAIN GROVE       WRIGHT      151.07000
KLP798  MOUNTAIN GROVE       WRIGHT      151.04000
Note: Some sites near district boundaries may serve 2 or more districts
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 02-18-2013, 8:30 PM
kb0rpj's Avatar
Member
  Audio Feed Provider
Audio Feed Provider
Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: north central mo
Posts: 151
Default

As of a couple weeks ago still hearing 156.7 tone on the output of the harris and the avalon towers, will have to listen during this next storm to see if they have changed and i just missed it?
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 02-21-2013, 8:03 AM
kb0rpj's Avatar
Member
  Audio Feed Provider
Audio Feed Provider
Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: north central mo
Posts: 151
Default

confirmed this morning modot is running a 167.9 tone on the 151.070 frequency in the KC area
Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 02-21-2013, 8:11 AM
kb0rpj's Avatar
Member
  Audio Feed Provider
Audio Feed Provider
Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: north central mo
Posts: 151
Default

also hearing the tone of 167.9 on 151.130
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 02-21-2013, 9:04 AM
Member
   
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 16
Default

Confirmed they are also using 151.0400 with no tone and 151.1 with 156.7 tone.
__________________
Uniden BCD396XT
P95

Last edited by kctek; 02-21-2013 at 9:15 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 02-23-2013, 11:39 AM
Starcom21's Avatar
IL/MO/MI Database Admin
  Shack Photos
Shack photos
RadioReference Database Admininstrator
Database Admin
Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Glen Carbon, IL (MetroEast-St Louis)
Posts: 715
Default Updated MODOT Page

I have updated the MODOT page with new districts and changed the Alpha Tags.

Also, just noted today, new tone on St Louis: (Confirmed "St Louis" and "KFN618")

151.04000 156.04500 KFN618 RM167.9 PLMOD STL-HSRoad Maintenance (House Springs-Jefferson 114.8 in) (was 156.7)
__________________
Terry Weatherford, WX9SAR
IL / MO / MI - RR Database Admin
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 02-23-2013, 12:07 PM
KC0CSE's Avatar
Member
  Shack Photos
Shack photos
Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: KANSAS CITY NORTH....
Posts: 714
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Starcom21 View Post
I have updated the MODOT page with new districts and changed the Alpha Tags.

Also, just noted today, new tone on St Louis: (Confirmed "St Louis" and "KFN618")

151.04000 156.04500 KFN618 RM167.9 PLMOD STL-HSRoad Maintenance (House Springs-Jefferson 114.8 in) (was 156.7)
I'm wondering why they are not going MOSWIN?...nothing about that in the works?
Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
        
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 02-23-2013, 12:58 PM
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: St. Louis County, MO
Posts: 1,731
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KC0CSE View Post
I'm wondering why they are not going MOSWIN?...nothing about that in the works?
With the amount of traffic on all the MODOT frequencies here in the St. Louis county area the other day, NO way would a MOSWIN site have been able to handle the traffic. They only have three or four useable voice channels per site and MODOT here was using way more than their normal licensed frequencies for this region. They were coming up on frequencies used only in other regions. A lot of the chatter was simplex or direct but much was on the repeaters.
At one time, a MODOT dispatcher came on the air and asked that everyone switch back to the House Springs repeater. That was only after they started getting a handle on the trouble spots along I-64 or US-40 whatever you want to call it. Same road but two names for those that have lived here for many years!

It was just like listening to CB Channel 19 it was so crazy with MODOT traffic. Another user pointed that out and was turning his radios off as it was too darn annoying just like a CB radio can be!
That person was out west in the KC area.
I found the same here and thought about MOSWIN and how it could never handle the amount of radio traffic I could hear on both simplex and the repeater outputs.
I did have a 996XT searching the four MOSWIN sites I can receive and no traffic heard whatsoever from anything DOT or weather related.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 02-23-2013, 1:38 PM
KC0CSE's Avatar
Member
  Shack Photos
Shack photos
Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: KANSAS CITY NORTH....
Posts: 714
Default MODOT - MOSWIN?

so I guess that's a "no" on MOSWIN..? at this time...
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 02-25-2013, 6:00 PM
Member
   
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Clinton County, MO
Posts: 674
Default

Quote:
They only have three or four useable voice channels per site and MODOT here was using way more than their normal licensed frequencies for this region.
The KC6343 license covers mobiles statewide for most of the original MODOT frequencies.

In the Kansas City district, they are using repeaters 151.100 MHz/ PL 156.7 in the metro area, and 151.07 MHz / PL 167.9 throughout the district.

For simplex operations 151.04 MHz / PL 94.8 and PL 123.0
as well as 151.07 MHz / PL 94.8 and PL 123.0

It's interesting that they have broken the repeater pair 151.13 MHz / 156.135 MHz into two simplex channels. The pair is used for repeater operations in the NW district, but as two simplex channels in the Kansas City metro area.
For 151.130 MHz / PL 123.0
For 156.135 MHz / PL 94.8
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 02-25-2013, 10:03 PM
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: St. Louis County, MO
Posts: 1,731
Default

I recall reading a story a couple years back about another states DOT bringing their new statewide system to its knees. The DOT guys must communicate with one another very often especially when running gang plows like they do on the interstates.
I don't recall reading what the other state did other than maybe limit the sites they could associate with. I'm not even sure they did that.
Using coventional simplex channels makes the most sense to me.

I know our MODOT guys cannot talk to one another when they are gang plowing and trying to use the repeaters. They are too close and one must back away from the other before the can talk if using the repeater(s).

I'd imagine that was one of the reasons they were using so many simplex channels here the other day. I heard more than one person come on and tell them to back away as they were too close to the other truck and the radios would not work. I guess the strong signal from the mobiles output frequency was causing the other trucks radios to desense the repeater output frequency.
I'd imagine the MODOT trucks carry pretty high power radios.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 02-25-2013, 10:11 PM
Member
  Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sedalia, MO
Posts: 101
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KC0CSE View Post
so I guess that's a "no" on MOSWIN..? at this time...
I mentioned this on the MOSWIN thread that moto techs were discussing outfitting MODOT with MOSWIN radios to test during hazardous conditions. I don't know if that will be permanent or not but I would think that they would try to move as many agencies as possible to it especially a state agency.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 02-26-2013, 11:23 PM
jeatock's Avatar
Member
  Audio Feed Provider
Audio Feed Provider
Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: 090-45-50 W, 39-43-22 N
Posts: 295
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kruser View Post
I know our MODOT guys cannot talk to one another when they are gang plowing and trying to use the repeaters. They are too close and one must back away from the other before the can talk if using the repeater(s).
(This is part of an over-simplified presentation I use in Firefighter training. Please take it in a good way. We Firefighters sometimes have a difficult time grasping technical concepts, hence the simplistic format. These numbers and frequencies are for explanation and have no real world value.)

Receiver desensing bites folks in the rear all the time. It goes like this:

A transmitter sends signals in strengths from 1 to a brazillion. The farther away from the transmitter you are, the weaker the signal gets like water pressure in a hose. No new news there.

For a receiver, any signal over 10,000 melts solder joints. 300 lets the smoke out of transistors. The FCC 'Safe Harbor Rules' limit signals to a maximum of 125. 100 is Binford strong. Anything above 5 is clear. Your squelch is set at 2, and mutes the receiver so you don't hear static for strengths of 0 to 2. Again, no news.

Every transmitter, without exception, sends off-frequency signals. It is unavoidable. The farther away / weaker the signal, the less off-frequency energy is received. Picture it as mist coming off an adjustable nozzle set to stream.

Simplex or talkaround: I transmit on 154 MHz. You hear me on 154 MHz. Simple, hence the name. I am hitting you directly with a master stream.

Duplex or repeaters: Mobiles transmit on 155 into the repeater. The repeater simultaneously 'repeats' whatever it hears on 155 back out on 154. A receiver listening to 154 will hear nearby simplex (if the signal is strong enough) or the repeater (again, if it is strong enough). All is well with the world.

Squelch codes: Picture the carnival ride with the sign "You must be this tall to ride." "This tall" equates to the receiver's signal squelch. Squelch codes add "This tall AND a green ticket." Green ticket, you go. Red ticket, blue ticket or no ticket, no go. Squelch codes are like tickets. Again, nothing earth-shattering.

Here is where it gets interesting: Say you and I are in different apparatus driving a hundred feet apart, and a fair distance from the repeater. Our squelch settings mute all signals less than a 2. The repeater is far enough away it comes in at a clear 5. No problem… so far.

I call you simplex on 154 MHz, and your radio receives me at a 70 signal. I transmit my signal with a green ticket. You hear me with no problem. Remember that my radio is also transmitting off frequency noise, and as close as we are it covers 2 MHz either side of 154 at a 10 signal for your radio, but we don't care... so far.

You answer back, but use the repeater; your radio transmits on 155 (with the same amount of off-frequency noise as mine did). My receiver hears your transmitter’s off-frequency 155 MHz noise at a 10 signal, but there is no green ticket so I hear nothing. The repeater kicks on and a 3rd truck 10 miles away hears you just fine through the repeater.

Here is where we get zapped: My receiver still hears your off-frequency noise at a 10. The repeater's signal hits my truck at a 5, but your off-frequency 10 covers up the repeater’s 5 signal. In that barrel battle I hear exactly zilch. I back off two hundred feet. The repeater signal may drop to a 4 but your garbage signal has dropped to a 1. We can talk again.

Bingo! Receiver desense.

Note that desense also takes place in situations where users aren't trying to talk to each other. Example: I, your friendly chief, use my 5-watt portable to call you, the poor schmuck on the wet end of the hose, to pass along the interesting information that the roof is collapsing. By order of the head of the IT and Communications Bureau (a fine fellow with a Cal-Tech Doctorate in SQL statistical database administration), all fireground communications must be on his spiffy repeated system. You are far enough away from the repeater and deep enough inside the house that your radio hears the repeater at a 5.

Nobody will ever explain to your widow that a long-winded taxi driver stuck at the road block was arguing with his dispatcher about overtime. His transmitter’s off-frequency noise was hitting your portable radio at a 10, so you didn't hear the repeater's 5 signal carrying my suggestion that you cut and run for your life.

Analog radios may let you hear something, probably just unintelligible noise, but maybe a word or two, perhaps sounding something like “EVACUATE!” At least enough ‘something’ to pique your interest. Digital radios simply flat fail. There is not enough frog DNA in the world to error correct the mess your receiver is hearing.

In the City’s defense, they will play the dispatch center recording clearly showing that I issued an evacuation order and that the repeater faithfully and crisply rebroadcast it. There will be testimony from a brother firefighter listening from across town that he heard everything perfectly. The blame falls on you, the dumb schmuck at the wet end of the hose, because your didn’t heed my suggestion.

Sounds silly, but over the past five years, this exact scenario has contributed to the death of half a dozen firefighters. Read the published firefighter death and injury reports.

Don't believe it? Grab three portables. and 'go inspect something' several miles away from the closest repeater site. Put two of the portables on repeated TAC3. Put the other on TAC4. Send a greenhorn jogging down the block with one TAC3 radio. Keep the other two. Have him talk to you on TAC3- he will come in just fine. Then, while he is talking on TAC3, key up the TAC4 radio in your other hand. I'll bet dish washing for a week that the TAC3 radio will go silent. Hand the TAC4 portable radio to someone else and find out how far away they have to go before TAC3 comes back. Then try it on different channels, and again with a truck radio transmitting on the different channel. That is useful knowledge.

Beware the evil receiver desense on repeated systems!


PS: With the planned number of MOSWIN sites, this will be a problem there as well. Maybe worse as MOSWIN is P25 digital and even with the latest-greatest error correction digital radios are troubled by strong off-frequency interference that can easily put the BER above the fail point.
__________________
COML, Public Safety Communications Consultant, Interoperability Crusader, Firefighter, and Slayer of Dragons (aka Proprietary Systems), K9PKE

Last edited by jeatock; 02-27-2013 at 12:23 AM..
Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 9:20 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
All information here is Copyright 2012 by RadioReference.com LLC and Lindsay C. Blanton III.Ad Management by RedTyger
Copyright 2011 by RadioReference.com LLC Privacy Policy  |  Terms and Conditions