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Old 05-20-2012, 2:08 PM
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Default Cw id?

Here's a recording of the CW ID that occurs on the hour on both frequencies.
My CW decoding skills are rusty but what I come up with from the sample does not look like and FCC callsign to me.

There is also another data format the broadcast at the end of each CW ID and it is in the same sound clip I've attached.

Anyone have any idea what format that data is in?

This is in reference to the original thread I started at 152.690 & 158.700 license search?

I did two threads in case the sound thread is moved to a digital signals decoding forum if nobody can help here.
I had to zip up the sound file as it is in a AU format.
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File Type: zip CWID152690.zip (106.2 KB, 35 views)
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Old 05-20-2012, 2:27 PM
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I get CHC581 for the CW. What that is all about... I dunno. HTH.
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Last edited by trsundstrom; 05-20-2012 at 2:29 PM..
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Old 05-20-2012, 2:44 PM
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Originally Posted by trsundstrom View Post
I get CHC581 for the CW. What that is all about... I dunno. HTH.
Thanks, that is the same as I came up with.

So I have no idea who runs the paging transmitters and the CW ID is spitting out an ID that is not an FCC callsign. Odd.
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Old 05-20-2012, 3:26 PM
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If you know about where the tower is you can do a geosearch using lat/long and various radii. I find the License Search - Advanced License Search page turns up transmitter sites, not just the license sites, Combine that with a specific or tight range of frequencies and see what happens? HTH.
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Old 05-20-2012, 3:39 PM
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152.690 In Missouri

KNKJ555 WARDSVILLE, MO
WQZ610 Joplin, MO
both JOPLIN BEEPERS, INC.

158.700
KAA275 MOBILE RADIO COMMUNICATIONS, INC. 0002545077 CD Active 04/01/2019
2 KEK297 Joplin Beepers, Inc. 0002534873 CD Active 04/01/2019
3 KNKI509 MOBILE RADIO COMMUNICATIONS, INC. 0002545077 CD Active 04/01/2019
4 KNKK411 Joplin Beepers, Inc. 0002534873 CD Active 04/01/2019
5 KNKK522 Joplin Beepers, Inc. 0002534873 CD Active 04/01/2019
6 KNKO672 Joplin Beepers, Inc. 0002534873 CD Active 04/01/2019
7 KNKO708 Joplin Beepers, Inc. 0002534873 CD Active 04/01/2019
8 KNKO780 CENTRAL MOBILPHONE, INC. 0002529691 CD Canceled 04/01/1999
9 KQZ793 Mobile Radio Communications, Inc. 0002545051 CD Active 04/01/2019
10 KSV904 MOBILE RADIO COMMUNICATIONS, INC. 0002545077 CD Active 04/01/2019
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Old 05-20-2012, 3:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trsundstrom View Post
If you know about where the tower is you can do a geosearch using lat/long and various radii. I find the License Search - Advanced License Search page turns up transmitter sites, not just the license sites, Combine that with a specific or tight range of frequencies and see what happens? HTH.
That was my next attempt as I'm pretty sure they are located atop the several major hospitals that almost surround me on all but one side. I could probably just use my home lat/long and a few mile span and find it as powerful as the signals are. All the hospitals are within 4 miles the way the crow flies from me.
I think I'm off to try that type search now.
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Old 05-20-2012, 3:48 PM
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But kruser may be hearing something in Illinois. East Saint Louis was the home of a lot of college bars back in 1960. IL age for beer et al was 18 for girls, 21 for guys; guess who would go into the stores? :-)
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Old 05-20-2012, 3:52 PM
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Any chance it's a Canadian station?
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Old 05-20-2012, 4:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W2IBC View Post
152.690 In Missouri

KNKJ555 WARDSVILLE, MO
WQZ610 Joplin, MO
both JOPLIN BEEPERS, INC.
I did see the Joplin Beepers listing. They have several sites listed and at least one was kind of near this area but still not that close.
Not close enough to be causing the problems I'm getting anyway even if they were running 5KW ERP.
Both freqs aspit out that same odd CW ID at the same moment along with the odd sounding data after the CW.
I've also heard what is to be a CW ID but with no modulation at all. It just keys and releases the transmitter with the same rythm as the CW sound I posted.
My first recording was one with no modulation. I was ticked as I was hurrying to get recording setup before the top of the hour and then the top of the hour hits and all I heard was nothing other than the transmitter keying with dead silence!
So I waited another hour. They only send the CW at the top of each hour almost to the second.
I'm thinking it may be one of the nationwide paging companies and something in their license allows them to not actually list all the transmitter locations or maybe they list them only by the parent companies location.
I'm going to try a geo search next as that may produce results if they only list the license location in the FCC database. I would think their blanket license should still show the actual physical transmitter locations.
Of course their CW call should tell something so one could contact them if they were causing a true problem but that CW ID tells me nothing. Maybe they are a Canadian company and that is their call (CHC581) up there!
It looks as though a lightning storm is approaching so maybe that will "fix" them.
I hate paging signals and wideband receivers (scanner types). They just do not get along very well.
If it were not illegal, I'd decode them and see what kind of traffic they are passing and that may shed some light on the licensee but I'll leave that one go.

Thanks for everyones help. I'm off to try trsundstroms GEO search suggestion and see if it turns anything up.
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Old 05-20-2012, 4:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trsundstrom View Post
But kruser may be hearing something in Illinois. East Saint Louis was the home of a lot of college bars back in 1960. IL age for beer et al was 18 for girls, 21 for guys; guess who would go into the stores? :-)
I remember those days well! They are still known for their bars in which most are open nearly 24 hours still I think. I think they may have passed some law though that says the bar must close for something silly like just a couple hours from say 6 to 8 AM or something stupid. Just enough to get people to go home. And of course they are still well known for the strip clubs
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Old 05-20-2012, 4:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W2NJS View Post
Any chance it's a Canadian station?
I have considered that but have not searched the IC site yet on the odd callsign.
It would be pretty silly for a Canadian paging company to setup shop here in the US and broadcast their Canadian call. Unless they use a common control for all their paging sites and have no way of stripping the CH callsign from the transmissions in the states.
That would not surprise me actually the way everything is done outside of this country these days. I suppose I may hear a Chinese call some day!
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Old 05-20-2012, 5:05 PM
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Do you have a Coventry Health Care hospital near you? Missouri is mentioned on Coventry Health Care: Contact Us. ??? Maybe CHC is leasing a radio system?
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Old 05-20-2012, 6:22 PM
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Originally Posted by trsundstrom View Post
Do you have a Coventry Health Care hospital near you? Missouri is mentioned on Coventry Health Care: Contact Us. ??? Maybe CHC is leasing a radio system?
I'd say I do! At least nine area hospitals are members from quick research.
Do you think that is what the CHC part of the CW ID stands for?
It would make sense. Coventry Health Care paging site number 581!

I still would think the paging transmitters must follow FCC rules and broadcast their true callsigns in the clear. It seems like anything goes with FCC rules these days though. I'd bet 75% of the licensed systems here do not ever verbally say or use a CW call identifier. The state police are very good about it as are the county police. Most of the small muni's never say their calls and I doubt they even know what a call is. At least the dispatchers anyway.
The state will say their call with each transmission darn near. I think they do it because they know they are heard across the country and are licensed for tons of power. Makes them feel better!

Anyway, at least two of the hospitals nearest to me are a part of Coventry from what I could tell. I could not find an actual list but my guess is that almost every hospital here is a member otherwise they may lose a customer. BJC health and even one of the areas university hospitals are members plus I found mention of the hospital that is very near me being a member. If Coventry manages the hospital staff paging systems then that could very well be the deal. Now to figure out whom Coventry leases radio systems from. I did an FCC license search on Coventry but came up with a bunch of unrelated stuff like I expected if they do lease systems.

What made you think of Coventry Health Care!?

Oh well, this is another lead that may take me somewhere. I've still not ran a geo search at the FCC site but will do sometime soon before the day is out.
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Old 05-20-2012, 8:25 PM
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It looks like W2IBC may be correct and it is Joplin Beepers.

After doing a GEO search, I found many things including a recent transfer of ownership on both frequencies.
It is licensed as a market area so no specific frequencies or transmitter locations listed at all.
In fact, not much useful info for my needs at all.

I was at least hoping for coordinates of the transmitters but they just list is as market area BEA096. So when you do the map license function, you just get a map showing their coverage area similar to a cell company license. It covers down to the bootheel of the state darn near.

I came up with two callsigns if anyone knows how to search further and get coordinates of the antennas.
WPVE800 is the 152.6900 license
WPVH886 is the 158.7000 license

A lot of old logs showing ownership changes and other admin updates but no real technical info other than it was all part of an auction. Auction #40: Paging.

I also found reference to American Messaging which is who we still use but in the 930 MHz band. I'm pretty sure they bought out many of the old VHF paging companies back when paging started to die off. Then along came several others including Joplin Beepers who apparently bought some of this market areas VHF companies.

I guess my only hope now is to continue using the Icom R7000 and 9000 as they work just fine with no notch filters for the weak VHF signals I like to chase and then purchase additional PAR filters for the 152 and 158 paging bands and daisy chain them together for a deeper notch when using the scanners. I know when using two notch filters tuned for the same notch frequency that you must space them apart by a quarter wavelength of coax otherwise you will not increase the notch depth by much more than a single filter.
Does anyone know when using two filters like I am, set for 152 and 158 MHz, if they will work as they should when connected directly to one another or should they also be seperated by a quarter wavelength coax jumper?
From tests I've done, they both seemed to null the frequencies they are tuned for when coupled directly to each other but now I wonder being as they are still not that far apart in frequency.

Thanks again for everyone's help and suggestions and please do let me know if there is a way to dig deeper into a license such as the ones I listed if there is a way to still determine transmitter location info.
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Old 05-20-2012, 11:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kruser View Post
What made you think of Coventry Health Care!?

Oh well, this is another lead that may take me somewhere. I've still not ran a geo search at the FCC site but will do sometime soon before the day is out.
I searched Google for "CHC581" and nothing of interest. I split the search value to "CHC 581" and the first link was to Coventry with a bunch of "581-xxxx" numbers. Looking at the Web site itself I saw "Coventry of Missouri" that attracted my attention. I dunno... but I've been on the Web since 1993, and playing with search engines forever. Or I'm lucky :-) HTH.

By the way I was a Billiken for 2 years until Calculus II got the better of me. The one bar in East Saint Louis I remember had a huge back room, low ceiling, and the live band only played one song: Ray Charles' "What'd I Say". And there were some girls with tight red dresses.
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Old 05-21-2012, 2:09 AM
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Originally Posted by trsundstrom View Post
I dunno... but I've been on the Web since 1993, and playing with search engines forever. Or I'm lucky :-) HTH.

By the way I was a Billiken for 2 years until Calculus II got the better of me. The one bar in East Saint Louis I remember had a huge back room, low ceiling, and the live band only played one song: Ray Charles' "What'd I Say". And there were some girls with tight red dresses.
You did better than I did. I've been on the web since darn near day one but I've always fought search engines trying to phrase my search correctly or I am just un-lucky!

Billikens huh - I can remember going to Billiken games with my dad. I don't know how long they have been around but I was a young kid so it must have been back in the late 60's, early 70's when he used to take me to see them. Boy, that was ages ago!
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Old 05-23-2012, 9:13 PM
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possible location of st louis txmitter:

2 - Fixed LA CLEDE GAS BUILDING 8TH & OLIVE STREETS
ST. LOUIS, MO 38-37-43.2 N, 090-11-31.4 W (From WRD379)
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Old 05-23-2012, 10:02 PM
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possible location of st louis txmitter:

2 - Fixed LA CLEDE GAS BUILDING 8TH & OLIVE STREETS
ST. LOUIS, MO 38-37-43.2 N, 090-11-31.4 W (From WRD379)
I never gave thought to checking the 7x MHz link freqs. The one in that license does key with both transmitters here near me.
I did confirm today that 152.690 is on St. Lukes rooftop as I get full signal in their parking lot with no antenna. I'm sure that is my main culprit.
I've retuned one of the PAR filters so it notches that freq as deep as it can and it helped tons.
I had to put it back though as I also have a strong signal on 152.2400 that is on the same building.
That one is shown as having an ERP of 500 watts! Some show as well over 1000 watts (ERP). Why the heck they need so many transmitter locations for a single frequency is beyone me. One guy said they do it and brute force the power down into the hospital buildings so the emergency departments get the signal. They stick an antenna that radiates out on top of the building but they get poor coverage straight down so they run the high power. It would seem like they would do better locating the antennas away from the groups of hospitals so the signal naturally propagates into those buildings.
Oh well, not much can be done other than using filters or good radios I guess. I'm just lucky that I don't also have FM or TV broadcast towers near me!

Thanks for looking that one up, that gave me a new idea of using the link frequencies.

The 152.240 station has a call of KRS635 if you want to see what I'm up against! I suspect the stations on 152.690 and 158.700 have as many or more locations the way they seem to blanket the area so strong. I wish they would get rid of VHF paging.
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