new scanner..

[kruser]

Originally Posted by kb0rpj

Thank you!

Im hoping that I will still be able to do it without worrying about the base/offset/steps to make it work. if not I will see what i can rig up using win96/procom to make it work once my cable gets here tomorrow.

Kruser did you find out anymore information?

No but I will. I ran into some serious computer issues which are taking hours of troubleshooting.

I'll post back as soon as I can find the time. Hopefully tomorrow after work (today now!).

Edit: after I get the local sites in, it may take me a few hours to confirm anything, MOSWIN traffic is still very light here and most chatter occurs when I'm at work so I may need to take the 96 into work and keep an eye on it there when they start talking.
I've not once seen more than one active talkgroup at a time and they are always on the same frequency when they talk according to my Proscan logs I have running. Even if it follows just one channel should be enough to confirm if it will work though.

[kruser]

Originally Posted by kb0rpj

Thank you!

Im hoping that I will still be able to do it without worrying about the base/offset/steps to make it work. if not I will see what i can rig up using win96/procom to make it work once my cable gets here tomorrow.

Kruser did you find out anymore information?

I programmed my Pro-96 last night with Weldon Spring and Imperial. I can get both of those well at work. I have it scanning both sites now so I will let you know if it tracked them if they ever talk!

[kb0rpj]

Today the princeton tower was off the air for the most of the day i came back and checked it and it's now showing

161.925
Bank 3 Ch 04
96: SY1CE | BEE00 | T0124

it keeps changing that information.
A little google search said that is the system id, connect tone, and Tower ID.. im only getting that information on the Princeton tower.

Kruser, thank you for you help, im looking foreword to your information.

[kruser]

Originally Posted by kb0rpj

Today the princeton tower was off the air for the most of the day i came back and checked it and it's now showing

161.925
Bank 3 Ch 04
96: SY1CE | BEE00 | T0124

it keeps changing that information.
A little google search said that is the system id, connect tone, and Tower ID.. im only getting that information on the Princeton tower.

Kruser, thank you for you help, im looking foreword to your information.

Nother user reported a site doing odd things and switching info like you saw.

I did take the 96 into work today and let it scan Weldon Spring and Imperial and did not hear a single peep.
I was worried that it was not working. I came home and checked my logs from my 996XT which I had also left scanning the same two sites all day and the logs were empty. Not a single conversation on either site today or this evening. I knew it was going to take a while but I did not expect no communications at all!
I'll try again Friday and over the weekend. I can watch them both over the weekend as I don't recall if the 96 shows what frequency it is told to tune too but I think it does. I recall trying to monitor a 700 MHz site that the 96 did not work correctly on and I think I remember the display showing the frequency it was tuning too. That's what I need to see in order to tell if it needs custom tables or not.

I'll post back here as soon as I can confirm anything.
Surely someone will get on one of the sites between now and Sunday evening!

[kruser]

Originally Posted by kb0rpj

I have pulled the plug and bought a PRO-2096. reading the manual i see it says for VHF/UHF trunked systems i need to enter more settings such as the base frequency and offset. how/where do i find that information for MOSWIN?

I've confirmed that just programming the PRO-96 straight from the database using Starrsoft's Win96 does not work. I had some rangers talking on one of the two sites I programmed into the 96 and the 96 remained silent while the 996XT was getting the rangers.

Now I went back into Win96 and set both sites to use "Multi Table" in the MOT 9600 CC box and then under that, I selectedthe "Extended Tables" button.
I then selected VHF under the 9600 CC heading in the Extended Trunking Tables window that opened and will see if that works. It adds a very simple table with a LO Channel of 0 and a High Channel of 655353. NO Offset and a step of 25.000. Hopefully they will talk again and I'll hear them on the 96.
One thing I'm not sure of is if you can enter that extended table info from the scanners keypad or if you must use software. There is also another VHF choice but it is for 3600 bps CC data and I think MOSWIN is 9600bps.

[kb0rpj]

I did find if u use procom96 to get the frequency tables you can program hi-low into the 2096 using win96. When i get back home i will post my channel table. I dont however know if it works.

[kruser]

Originally Posted by kb0rpj

I did find if u use procom96 to get the frequency tables you can program hi-low into the 2096 using win96. When i get back home i will post my channel table. I dont however know if it works.

How did you figure out which lines to use? Pro96com gives out 16 lines of info and Win96 will only allow 6 lines for a custom table.

I do have the two sites here running with different tables in the PRO96. But as luck would have it, they have stopped talking. I had a few DNR Rangers talking but I think they went in for the night as I've not heard them for a while now.
Figures as they were talking when I was dumping the new settings into the scanner and it finished uploading about two seconds after I last heard them!

I hope to get active follows on one of my custom table entries when they start talking again which may not be until tomorrow now unless someone reports some spotlight dear hunting or something! I actually have three sites running now but one of them only has two different table settings as I can only scan 10 banks.
I don't know if the 96 sill handle more than one site in a bank or not. Never tried that before with the 96. I think it may just stop on the first good CC signal it gets and then jumps to the next bank instead of searching the current bank for more control channels.

I guess they do not publish custom tables here for those with the older scanners like the PRO96 and 2096. I recall needing to figure out a custom table for a rebanded site before that I wanted to monitor with the 96. They did have a custom table listed but it did not work on the 96, only worked on the 996XT or maybe it was the GRE PSR500 or 600. Don't remember for sure.

[kb0rpj]

I programmed the following into the PRO-2096 (I just took the first 6 VHF tables. hopefully as the system gets more use people will start posting what works and what doesnt.)

ID CH LO CH HI OFFSET STEPS
4 16834 20479 16834 12.5
5 20480 24575 20480 0.50
6 24576 28671 24576 0.50
7 28672 32767 28672 0.50
8 32768 36863 32768 0.50
9 36864 40959 36864 0.50

[kruser]

Originally Posted by kb0rpj

I programmed the following into the PRO-2096 (I just took the first 6 VHF tables. hopefully as the system gets more use people will start posting what works and what doesnt.)

ID CH LO CH HI OFFSET STEPS
4 16834 20479 16834 12.5
5 20480 24575 20480 0.50
6 24576 28671 24576 0.50
7 28672 32767 28672 0.50
8 32768 36863 32768 0.50
9 36864 40959 36864 0.50

Well, let me know if it worked or not!

They still have not spoke today. I figured someone would with all the snow we have but I guess I was wrong. Not a peep on the radio tiday.
I plug yours in as soon as I confirm mine work or not.

[kb0rpj]

I may have errored on those step sizes, it might be 5.0 not 0.5. Im still not sure how to convert it from the format that pro96com uses and put it into win96. so if 0.5 doesnt work, try 5.0

[kb0rpj]

I discovered several errors in that file.. here is the correct verison
table ch lo ch hi base offset step.
4 16384 20479 136.0000 16384 12.5
5 20480 24575 142.4250 20480 5
6 24576 28671 145.32 24576 5
7 28672 32767 140.115 28672 7.5
8 32768 36863 139.575 32768 7.5
9 36864 40959 137.2775 36864 7.5


so far decoding eagville and princeton with pro96com has shown only one table (table 5) being used.

[kruser]

Originally Posted by semo

The tables DO vary by site. When I did try to manually enter them I often got errors in the arc500software I was using. This was discussed somewhere on here. FYI, I found that p25 auto works best and you dont have to mess with the tables. Not sure for a 96 though.

Just an FYI but it does appear the PRO-2096 and 96 do need custom tables when trying to monitor MOSWIN or other VHF systems and sites.
I put two of the MOSWIN sites in my 96 using a direct import from here with Win 96 from Starrsoft and my 96 did not receive a thing while my 996XT or PSR 600 were talking away.
So the 96 must need some type of custom table to work with these VHF systems. Myself and others have not found wht works yet as there is no talk on the system. I setup my 96 last night with the same two sites in the 96 in muliple banks. Each one is using a different table so I'm hoping I'll hear talk on one of the banks! I just need someone to use the sites I put in so I can test!

[talkpair]

How did you figure out which lines to use? Pro96com gives out 16 lines of info and Win96 will only allow 6 lines for a custom table.

Is the 6 line limit a limitation of the programming software or the radio itself?

Can you enter more than 6 if you key them in to the radio manually ?

It looks like I may be able to use P25 MANUAL mode in my PSR600 to emulate your radio.
It appears 16 entries can be made to the table on my radio at least.

As kruser said, there's very little traffic on the system yet to experiment with.

[kb0rpj]

Radio only supports 6 groups.

Anyone using pro96com been able to see any channel grants?

5-2268 was granted for CWID on eagleville 17 times.
5-2514 was granted 80+ time for CWID.

Im hoping maybe we will get lucky and most sites use table id 5 for assigning channels.

if anyone has channel grant information please post it into this thread so we can maybe get list of groups going.

Princeton: "05-2514","i",154.99500,"05-2514",160.25500,0,81
Eagleville: "05-2628","i",155.56500,"05-2628",160.82500,0,17

Im listening to Milan right now to see what it channel grants, however, my decode rate on Milan is in the single digits.

anyone else use pro96com and care to share there channel grants?

[kb0rpj]

thanks to someone sending me there grant logs, i see masman(kc) and lawson are assigning channels out of group/id 4. so with that information I'm able to program the scanner with two confirmed tables that will work (groups 4 and 5) now we just need others to post there channel grants to see if there is a statewide pattern. Im wondering if they are assigned by region. Troop A uses group 4 Troop H uses group 5.

which would make a bit of sense. there are 16 groups and 4 of them are 700/800 Likely for KC, springfield, Stl Systems. that leaves 12 groups for 9 troops?

well if you know anyone who can run pro96com on a moswin tower have them post some of there channel grants here so we can see whats up

[talkpair]

I discovered several errors in that file.. here is the correct verison

table    ch lo    ch hi    base        offset    step.
4       16384     20479    136.0000    16384    12.5
5       20480     24575    142.4250    20480     5
6       24576     28671    145.32      24576     5
7       28672     32767    140.115     28672     7.5
8       32768     36863    139.575     32768     7.5
9       36864     40959    137.2775    36864     7.5

Does the radio actually ask for the table line number to be entered?........That's a good thing if it does......Otherwise, I would have to assume the first entry to be 0 and it's table entry match line 0 from the table that the site broadcasts.

[kb0rpj]

No it does not matter what the table number is. I simply put the table number for reference sake

only requirement is that the lowest channel number goes the lowest slot. ie, if table 6 has the lowest channel number then table 6 would go into slot 00 on the software.

[talkpair]

I was a little sceptical about this working at all, but the more I look at it, the more I think it will work.

It may not work state wide, but I think you could create a custom table for a single site easily.

I couldn't wrap my head around the idea of being able to just skip over the first 4 lines in the table.

To put your logic to the test, I programmed in the Independence PD site the hard way into my PSR600 and created a custom table.
The PD's table in Pro96Com contains only 2 entries, which are the same as the first 2 entries from the HP's table. Because Independence PD is a 700 Meg system, line "00" which contains the 851.00625 entry is not used.
I built a custom table with only a single entry using 4096 as low channel and offset, 8191 as the high channel, 762.00625 as the base, with 6.25 KHz spacing.
I set it for Wildcard and it works !

In my case, it appears that the lines you've selected from the table will work for the 3 sites I can receive.

I'll set my scanner up manually using your custom table and monitor the Massman site for a while.

[kruser]

Originally Posted by kb0rpj

No it does not matter what the table number is. I simply put the table number for reference sake

only requirement is that the lowest channel number goes the lowest slot. ie, if table 6 has the lowest channel number then table 6 would go into slot 00 on the software.

Your table is working here on at least the Weldon Spring site with my Pro-96!
I missed where you had changed the table after I pointed out the errors in the step size from your original table. Not sure how I missed your correct table but I did. Talkpair's post this morning made me look at it again so I decided to try the new version. It worked!!
I do have a desense issue with the Weldon Spring site though on my 96. Being a GRE, it most likely has the front end overload issue that the GRE's are known for. When something in my area is transmitting, I lose reception of the Weldon Spring control channel. I thought it was the normal paging transmitters located all around me within a mile or two from me. I live with tall hospitals in three directions from my location and each of those hospitals has a transmitter on 152.240 MHz that causes desense on all the digital GRE radios I have. My Unidens are not normally bothered by the paging signals but last night when I was looking at the Channel Grant logs for you, I noticed Pro96com was going in and out of recption on the Weldon Spring site but the Imperial site was fine. That I found odd as the two use control channel that are close to one another. Weldon uses 152.6600 and Imperial uses 152.6000. Both fall darn near smack dab in the middle of the 152 MHz paging band. In theory, if the paging transmitter messes with one site, it should also mess with the other as both sites give me identical signal strengths. I maen exact! If I attenuate one site down to 0.5 on the Icom R9000's s meter, the other site is also dead on 0.5 for signal strength. So now I'm very confused and have no clue what changed that did not affect both sites. I can see it also with the Pro-96 even when it is scanning both sites, it will sit on the Imperial site way longer than the Weldon Spring site. Usually when it checks Weldon, it only sits on it for a split second before going back to the Imperial site where it will sit on that sites control channel for a couple seconds before trying Weldon again. If it was getting a valid control channel signal from both sites, it would sit on both for the same amount of time.
I'd say it spends 95% of the time on the Imperial site indicating no or very poor recption from Weldon. I confirmed that by hitting manual and going to the control channel for Weldon. It will show 95% or better only to drop down to 20% or less. I think it stops decodeing at 20%.
The Imperial site shows a constant 95+%. The times when the decode drops out for Weldon, the s-meter on the R9000 stays at its normal S-9 so the actual signal is not getting weak. Something else is killing the CC data. I now wonder if they did not add a simulcast tower for Weldon as I never had these issues before since the site came online. I may be a victim of multipath distortion from the Weldon Spring site.
I watched the local paging signal levels when Pro96com reported it had lost the CC signal from Weldon and the CC drops do not coincide with the times the paging transmitters come online. I even checked the paging signals in the 158 MHz paging band but those are a lower level here and usually don't cause overload problems for me. Either way, the 158 pagins signals also did not coincide with the loss of the Weldon CC signal. I then checked one of the counties VHF transmitters that is also very near me and that signals timing did not coincide with the CC signal loss either so I'm stumped! I even retuned my PAR 152 MHz paging band notch filter down in frequency so it would lower the signal from the worst paging signal on 152.240 but not mess with the Weldon or Imperial sites CC levels. No help by doing that either. I guess I need to hookup a crude spectrum analyzer I have and see if there is another local signal that has the same timings as the CC signal loss from Weldon Spring.
I'm really worried it is going to be some type of multipath distortion though and it is affecting GRE's and Uniden's. Just three days or so ago, I had perfect reception from both MOSWIN sites.

On another note, I saw the CWID channel come alive for the first time on the Weldon Spring site today.
So for your table notes, the CWID channel was on channel 05-1948 with a freq of 152.16500. That new CWID channel now lights up all five Weldon Spring channels in Pro96com. With what I sent you last night and the new CWID channel today should give you all 10 channels used for the two sites, Imperial and Weldon Spring.

Ok, I'm gone and am going back to try and solve my new Weldon Spring reception problem! That one is bugging the heck out of me. Nothing in the database suggests that Weldon Spring is simulcast.

[kb0rpj]

kruser, what channels did you have for imperial? so far for me i've confirmed i will need groups 4 and 5. I think you said imperial is using 12?

anyone else out there watching this feed have group-channel numbers to supply?