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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 12-14-2013, 11:02 AM
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I have been listening to Troop C for a while now. But seems like Talk group 5 covers most of the Metro area (ie St Louis area, Warren Co, Franklin County area). I am calling this Metro Dispatch.

Talk group 7 covers the area South (ie., Jefferson, St Francois, Ste Genevieve, and Washington Counties. So I am calling this Rural Dispatch.

But I do hear some Dispatches on 7 for some of the highways and Interstates in the St Louis area as well.

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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 12-14-2013, 6:39 PM
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Actually Talk Group 7 also covers St. Louis county south of I-64. This includes I-44, I-55 to the Jeffco line, I-270/255 (south of 64/40)...
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Old 12-15-2013, 2:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicknen View Post
Actually Talk Group 7 also covers St. Louis county south of I-64. This includes I-44, I-55 to the Jeffco line, I-270/255 (south of 64/40)...
Yes, this is correct for the most part. TG 5 and 7 can and are used for all areas in the troop at times. They were used for either when the system was first switched over and still are today.

For the most part, TG 5 is what was considered the 'Metro' dispatch channel before on Low band and TG 7 replaces what was considered the 'Rural' dispatch channel.

The big difference is that they now have exclusive talkgroups for car to car traffic and several of them for that matter. They also have more 'Dispatch" talkgroups then they did when they were on low band. TG's 5 and 7 are the most used by far though.

On low band, they did use 42.000 and 42.020 for car to car ops but I heard the mobiles talking with one another more on the dispatch frequencies than anything. The main exception to that was when they ran radar or aircraft speed checks. Then they usually used 42.000 or 42.020 so Dispatch would not cover over them.

I log Imperial and Weldon sites with several radios and Pro96com. The Imperial site gets just as much TG 5 traffic as it does TG 7.
If TG 7 were really only for Jefferson County, I think the Imperial site would have way more TG 7 traffic but it doesn't. It is about even with the amount of TG 5 activity when compared to the Weldon or Warrenton sites. Warrenton does get a fair amount of Troop F area talkgroup traffic also. Kind of like how Imperial gets some Troop E traffic or traffic out of the Sikeston area.

With all that said, I don't think I'd label Talkgroup 7 as just for Jefferson County as it is not just as nicknen stated.
When I compare total site traffic, the Imperial site does win over the Weldon site for the amount of traffic.
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Old 12-15-2013, 3:36 AM
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Originally Posted by kd0fmg View Post

3. I have heard conversations about a Troop A "Travel" Talkgroup. I'm curious to know if anyone else has heard anything like that in your Troops that you folks monitor.

5. Any word on a X2 TDMA upgrade anytime soon?
The 'Travel' talkgroups can come up for any troop or user anywhere in the state as long as that user radio is allowed to affiliate with the site they are in. I've heard several of the Travel TG's on the St. Louis area sites.
That's what they are for, for when a user needs to communicate back with his/her home area while travelling in other parts of the state.
If they allowed the 'travelling' users to come up on the normal dispatch talkgroups, that would cause a lot of sites to carry all the distant areas traffic which would tie up the local sites with distant area traffic. Remember that each site only has a limited amount of channels for voice traffic. If a Troop A user were allowed to come up on Troop A's dispatch channels while they were in say the Troop C area, you would hear much of Troop A's primary traffic on the Troop C sites. That would have a bad impact on the available channels for the Troop C area users.

It was fun monitoring when they finally started cutting things over here as they did allow other areas traffic to affiliate with the sites here. Not all of it but some. You could hear a lot of what was going on from across the state just like those users were right here in the St. Louis area!
Then they started activating the rules of what radio's and talkgroups were allowed on the local sites so most of that traffic dropped off and now you only hear the Travel talkgroups for the distant users when they are in this area. There are exceptions to those rules depending on what kind of user you are. Some of the sites that sit along the borders of two troops can allow users from either troop to affiliate. The Warrenton site here is an example of that. It allows Troop C and F users but can deny users from Troop F's area that are users located more on the western side of Troop F's area. Or it can deny those users of a county system that have moved onto Moswin if they are not near Warrenton or would never need its coverage.

If you setup Pro96com and watch the channel grant screen, you will see a lot of denied requests when a distant users radio tries to affiliate with one of the local sites. That can occur because a distant user has actually entered our area or propagation conditions have changed and the distant users signals are making it into our area. If those users need to get onto the site, they simply switch to the travel talkgroup.


For your X2 TDMA question, I'm not clear what you are asking.

If you are asking for a timeline when the 996XT will support X2 TDMA via an upgrade, the answer is never. The current Uniden models do not have the needed hardware to support X2 TDMA or P25 Phase II. The only scanner that will currently get X2 TDMA or P25 Phase II is the GRE PSR-800. The soon to be released new Uniden's will do both though.

If you are asking when they will upgrade Moswin to X2 TDMA, I'd also say never. They will go straight to P25 Phase II if needed and skip over X2 TDMA. Eventually, X2 TDMA systems will all be gone just like Edacs is fading away as support for it ends.

I thought I'd read that someone has seen Phase II traffic on one of the Moswin sites using DSD. That could have been a false indicator though as DSD will often show the wrong modulation scheme if not setup correctly or if the signal level is not correct into the soundcard input. DSD works but is far from perfect and can be kind of hard to setup correctly for many users.
I think that the majority of Moswin is P25 Phase II capable right now but I could be wrong on that. I'd guess that some of the early radios may not be capable of Phase II as it was not finalized when Moswin was getting started. Maybe some of the radios used in the pilot project part of the state. Phase II capable radios may be a part of the Moswin requirements.
I know that all the sites can handle Phase II.
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Old 12-15-2013, 6:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kruser View Post
The 'Travel' talkgroups can come up for any troop or user anywhere in the state as long as that user radio is allowed to affiliate with the site they are in. I've heard several of the Travel TG's on the St. Louis area sites.
That's what they are for, for when a user needs to communicate back with his/her home area while travelling in other parts of the state.
If they allowed the 'travelling' users to come up on the normal dispatch talkgroups, that would cause a lot of sites to carry all the distant areas traffic which would tie up the local sites with distant area traffic. Remember that each site only has a limited amount of channels for voice traffic. If a Troop A user were allowed to come up on Troop A's dispatch channels while they were in say the Troop C area, you would hear much of Troop A's primary traffic on the Troop C sites. That would have a bad impact on the available channels for the Troop C area users.


For your X2 TDMA question, I'm not clear what you are asking.

If you are asking for a timeline when the 996XT will support X2 TDMA via an upgrade, the answer is never. The current Uniden models do not have the needed hardware to support X2 TDMA or P25 Phase II. The only scanner that will currently get X2 TDMA or P25 Phase II is the GRE PSR-800. The soon to be released new Uniden's will do both though.

If you are asking when they will upgrade Moswin to X2 TDMA, I'd also say never. They will go straight to P25 Phase II if needed and skip over X2 TDMA. Eventually, X2 TDMA systems will all be gone just like Edacs is fading away as support for it ends.

I understand fully that there are County/City Travel TG's. However I heard a Troop A Car talking about switching to Troop A Travel. Those I haven't heard of nor seen in the DB.

I am sorry I mean Phase 2 TDMA I was apparently not thinking correctly when I posted that. I was referring to MOSWIN being upgraded. With some of the experiences I've had working with radios on the system, I highly doubt there will be a Phase 2 TDMA upgrade anytime soon. A lot of these municipal and county users are not using Phase 2 TDMA equipment, unless there is an update to older Motorola XTL radios that allows them to do it. Most of these users cannot afford the APX equipment. However the APX equipment does exist in these Municipal and County users from MOSCAP money. Just not in great enough numbers. Maybe 5 or 6 radios let's say. In some of the meetings I've sat in I've gathered that MOSWIN has sucked the state wallet dry just about. Phase 2 is going to cost a lot of $$$$$$$.
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Old 12-17-2013, 8:18 PM
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I just heard a unit assigned to Clinton County on tg 26002 call it Clinton County Travel and he said he was arriving at St Luke's on the Plaza (in KC)

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Old 12-18-2013, 7:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kd0fmg View Post
I understand fully that there are County/City Travel TG's. However I heard a Troop A Car talking about switching to Troop A Travel. Those I haven't heard of nor seen in the DB.
I've heard Troop C cars reference the Travel channel but was not near a radio to see if they did in fact come up on a TG that is not listed.

You are correct that the counties have assumed travel talkgroups but that actual state troop divisions do not.

Did you hear the Troop A car when they switched over by chance?
It would be interesting to see what TG comes up.
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Old 12-18-2013, 8:13 AM
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I think I heard it sometime ago on talk group 25 and at that time I thought itmay have been just for escorts. So least keep an ear out on that group to see if it is just for escorts or it is the travel channel for Troop C

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Old 12-18-2013, 9:01 AM
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I did not hear any thing I had the ID Search on. Maybe it wasn't affiliating with that site.

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Old 12-20-2013, 6:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kd0fmg View Post
I understand fully that there are County/City Travel TG's. However I heard a Troop A Car talking about switching to Troop A Travel. Those I haven't heard of nor seen in the DB.
Checking the logs for today and seen a new TG(20021) and heard a car say this: "718, Lee's Summit Troop A Travel". This was on the Eldon/High Point site.
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Old 12-22-2013, 2:06 PM
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Default what ?

Disregard;I misunderstood what I read. sorry.



Quote:
Originally Posted by kruser View Post
Yes, this is correct for the most part. TG 5 and 7 can and are used for all areas in the troop at times. They were used for either when the system was first switched over and still are today.

For the most part, TG 5 is what was considered the 'Metro' dispatch channel before on Low band and TG 7 replaces what was considered the 'Rural' dispatch channel.

The big difference is that they now have exclusive talkgroups for car to car traffic and several of them for that matter. They also have more 'Dispatch" talkgroups then they did when they were on low band. TG's 5 and 7 are the most used by far though.

On low band, they did use 42.000 and 42.020 for car to car ops but I heard the mobiles talking with one another more on the dispatch frequencies than anything. The main exception to that was when they ran radar or aircraft speed checks. Then they usually used 42.000 or 42.020 so Dispatch would not cover over them.

I log Imperial and Weldon sites with several radios and Pro96com. The Imperial site gets just as much TG 5 traffic as it does TG 7.
If TG 7 were really only for Jefferson County, I think the Imperial site would have way more TG 7 traffic but it doesn't. It is about even with the amount of TG 5 activity when compared to the Weldon or Warrenton sites. Warrenton does get a fair amount of Troop F area talkgroup traffic also. Kind of like how Imperial gets some Troop E traffic or traffic out of the Sikeston area.

With all that said, I don't think I'd label Talkgroup 7 as just for Jefferson County as it is not just as nicknen stated.
When I compare total site traffic, the Imperial site does win over the Weldon site for the amount of traffic.

Last edited by nicknen; 12-22-2013 at 2:09 PM.. Reason: error in interpretation...
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Old 12-24-2013, 5:49 AM
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Originally Posted by nicknen View Post
Disregard;I misunderstood what I read. sorry.
No problem! I was actually agreeing with your post. Sorry for not being more clear in my wording or punctuation as I can see how it could be taken wrong on your part!
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Old 12-26-2013, 7:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kruser View Post
The 'Travel' talkgroups can come up for any troop or user anywhere in the state as long as that user radio is allowed to affiliate with the site they are in. I've heard several of the Travel TG's on the St. Louis area sites.
That's what they are for, for when a user needs to communicate back with his/her home area while travelling in other parts of the state.
If they allowed the 'travelling' users to come up on the normal dispatch talkgroups, that would cause a lot of sites to carry all the distant areas traffic which would tie up the local sites with distant area traffic. Remember that each site only has a limited amount of channels for voice traffic. If a Troop A user were allowed to come up on Troop A's dispatch channels while they were in say the Troop C area, you would hear much of Troop A's primary traffic on the Troop C sites. That would have a bad impact on the available channels for the Troop C area users.

It was fun monitoring when they finally started cutting things over here as they did allow other areas traffic to affiliate with the sites here. Not all of it but some. You could hear a lot of what was going on from across the state just like those users were right here in the St. Louis area!
Then they started activating the rules of what radio's and talkgroups were allowed on the local sites so most of that traffic dropped off and now you only hear the Travel talkgroups for the distant users when they are in this area. There are exceptions to those rules depending on what kind of user you are. Some of the sites that sit along the borders of two troops can allow users from either troop to affiliate. The Warrenton site here is an example of that. It allows Troop C and F users but can deny users from Troop F's area that are users located more on the western side of Troop F's area. Or it can deny those users of a county system that have moved onto Moswin if they are not near Warrenton or would never need its coverage.

If you setup Pro96com and watch the channel grant screen, you will see a lot of denied requests when a distant users radio tries to affiliate with one of the local sites. That can occur because a distant user has actually entered our area or propagation conditions have changed and the distant users signals are making it into our area. If those users need to get onto the site, they simply switch to the travel talkgroup.


For your X2 TDMA question, I'm not clear what you are asking.

If you are asking for a timeline when the 996XT will support X2 TDMA via an upgrade, the answer is never. The current Uniden models do not have the needed hardware to support X2 TDMA or P25 Phase II. The only scanner that will currently get X2 TDMA or P25 Phase II is the GRE PSR-800. The soon to be released new Uniden's will do both though.

If you are asking when they will upgrade Moswin to X2 TDMA, I'd also say never. They will go straight to P25 Phase II if needed and skip over X2 TDMA. Eventually, X2 TDMA systems will all be gone just like Edacs is fading away as support for it ends.

I thought I'd read that someone has seen Phase II traffic on one of the Moswin sites using DSD. That could have been a false indicator though as DSD will often show the wrong modulation scheme if not setup correctly or if the signal level is not correct into the soundcard input. DSD works but is far from perfect and can be kind of hard to setup correctly for many users.
I think that the majority of Moswin is P25 Phase II capable right now but I could be wrong on that. I'd guess that some of the early radios may not be capable of Phase II as it was not finalized when Moswin was getting started. Maybe some of the radios used in the pilot project part of the state. Phase II capable radios may be a part of the Moswin requirements.
I know that all the sites can handle Phase II.
You can technically have a Phase II system and I have Phase I radios operating on it. When a Phase I radio affiliates on a Phase II TG it will default to Phase I (FDMA). All Phase II radios must be capable of Phase 1 operation per APCO. Point I'm making is that even if you see users on a Phase I system using XTS series radios, the system could very well be utilizing Phase II TGs. The South St. Louis City tower which is technically a MOSWIN tower and uses X2-TDMA TGs which is Motorola's version of Phase II.

That being said even if agencies are using APXs it doesn't mean a system is going Phase II. The APX are really the only series offered for sale by Motorola right now. The XTSs last order date was Oct 31 of this year. So if you have an agency who joins MOSWIN, they have little choice in radios when it comes to Motorola other than APXs.
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Old 12-27-2013, 2:16 AM
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How's it going Nick?

There was a thread from another state that mentions exactly what you said. I don't recall what state or system it was but it worked as you said. The system was using Phase II TG's but most of the radios were older and would not do Phase II so everything remained as if it was just a Phase I system. I wish I could recall who that was as I think it was a statewide system and I was watching it to see if they ever made the switch to APX radios. I only remember that it was going to cost them a fortune and the taxpayers were up in arms as it was a new system and they were already talking about spending tons more for new radios so it could be totally Phase II but for not much benefit.
It may have been a breaking news article.
I seem to recall they may have had some X2 TDMA radios in the mix and then very few true Phase II radios. It was just one of those interesting stories worth following to see what became of it but now I cannot recall who it was.

Speaking of the South site in STL City, have you noticed it has been listed as Failed for some time now? I noticed it listed as failed while looking at the Imperial sites neighbors I believe but never had the time to see if anyone had posted anything about it and why it is failed.

I've not tried to receive anything from that site but now that the leaves are gone, I should be able to get a decent signal from it so maybe I'll check it out over the weekend and see what it is or is not doing.
Please pass on any info if you know why it went to a failed listing!



Quote:
Originally Posted by nick1427d View Post
You can technically have a Phase II system and I have Phase I radios operating on it. When a Phase I radio affiliates on a Phase II TG it will default to Phase I (FDMA). All Phase II radios must be capable of Phase 1 operation per APCO. Point I'm making is that even if you see users on a Phase I system using XTS series radios, the system could very well be utilizing Phase II TGs. The South St. Louis City tower which is technically a MOSWIN tower and uses X2-TDMA TGs which is Motorola's version of Phase II.

That being said even if agencies are using APXs it doesn't mean a system is going Phase II. The APX are really the only series offered for sale by Motorola right now. The XTSs last order date was Oct 31 of this year. So if you have an agency who joins MOSWIN, they have little choice in radios when it comes to Motorola other than APXs.
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Old 12-28-2013, 3:01 PM
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Quote:
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Speaking of the South site in STL City, have you noticed it has been listed as Failed for some time now? I noticed it listed as failed while looking at the Imperial sites neighbors I believe but never had the time to see if anyone had posted anything about it and why it is failed.

I've not tried to receive anything from that site but now that the leaves are gone, I should be able to get a decent signal from it so maybe I'll check it out over the weekend and see what it is or is not doing.
Please pass on any info if you know why it went to a failed listing!
Not sure why it's listed as failed, I'm picking up City Fire Dispatch on the South Site as I write this.
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Old 12-28-2013, 3:15 PM
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2-001 is showing 2-005 774.08125 as connected, current.

774.08125 is coming in loud and clear in Glen Carbon IL, as it has been the last few months.



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How's it going Nick?

Speaking of the South site in STL City, have you noticed it has been listed as Failed for some time now? I noticed it listed as failed while looking at the Imperial sites neighbors I believe but never had the time to see if anyone had posted anything about it and why it is failed.

I've not tried to receive anything from that site but now that the leaves are gone, I should be able to get a decent signal from it so maybe I'll check it out over the weekend and see what it is or is not doing.
Please pass on any info if you know why it went to a failed listing!
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Old 12-29-2013, 12:11 AM
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In using Procom96 to monitor the Doniphan (317) and Bloomfield (307) sites on MOSWIN I noticed both had the same adjacent site failure to connect, namely, 199 (TO163) 774.30625 MHz. This was Saturday 12/28/13. However, the Poplar Bluff and Van Buren sites did not have this problem.

When I looked it up in the RR database I discovered it appeared to be the Zone 3 Site on Wheels. I suppose they set it up and then took it down.
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Old 12-29-2013, 4:44 PM
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Howdy folks, long time no talkie...

I've been busy with getting used to MARRS for work, and the ole GRE scanner has been somewhat neglected. I have MOSWIN programmed in, and it's working to monitor Troop A traffic, but here are a few questions that I have. I have searched and researched the best that my limited free time allows, but I'm hoping y'all don't mind that I'm going directly to the people who are most likely to know for your opinions.

Issue 1: Programming. With the GRE / Radio Shack scanners, how are you programming the system? Are you using multiple control channels from multiple sites on one "system" or are you programming one control channel / site per "system"? And, if it's multiple systems (one per cc / site) are you scanning them all at once, or one at a time?

Issue 2: Losing programming. This may be a specific problem with my scanner, but after several days (sometimes only hours) of success scanning MOSWIN, along with some MARRS and older local trunking systems (in different systems / scan lists) off and on, MOSWIN quits working in the scanner. The "T" trunking indicator stops showing, and if I disable all of the scan lists *except* the MOSWIN scan list, then "Nothing Enabled!" shows up. I've been correcting it by keeping my programming in a vscanner folder and re-flashing from that v-scanner folder when the error pops up.

Issue 3: Uniden Programming MOSWIN. I have a relative with a Uniden scanner, and I'm going to be programming MOSWIN for him soon. Are there any issues / pitfalls you can steer me away from programming the Uniden since I'm used to the GRE?

Thanks fellas,

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Old 12-29-2013, 9:24 PM
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Default MOSWIN Programming

Hi guys! Sorry if this is a repeated question. If it has already been addressed, please point me in the correct direction.

I am totally lost on what I need to do & how to program MOSWIN into my scanner. Truthfully, I am not even sure if my scanner will work. It is the Radio Shack Pro 2055 (I think, I will check to be sure).

My agency uses the MOSWIN system a little but we only have a handful of radios, issue is that our sheriffs office & other local PD have switched to MOSWIN 100% and I obviously no longer can hear them. Currently I would be happy if I could just pick up the Barry County (Cassville) talkgroups. Please let me know if you can help.
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Old 12-29-2013, 9:35 PM
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The Radio Shack Pro 2055 is an analog scanner you will need a digital scanner for MOSWIN.
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