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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 03-31-2014, 3:18 AM
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There's encryption for dispatch calls In Jackson county? Boo..hiss.
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Old 03-31-2014, 9:13 PM
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Biggest issue is the ADP encryption being used by all the agencies currently using full time encryption.
ADP is not "inter-operable" with open P-25 encryption used by other manufacturers radios.

All those that are using full time ADP encryption are essentially orphaned to those that are using open P-25 encryption.

Plus key management can be a hassle as well.

ADP encryption is a Motorola proprietary item.

All those agencies that chose the ADP encryption ignored the requirements that its radios fully interact with other brands.

Might be worth an investigation if federal $$ were used to buy them as they were required to fully interact with other brands in order to level the playing field.

JMHO....

Last edited by hkrharry; 03-31-2014 at 9:30 PM..
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 04-01-2014, 1:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scannerowner View Post
I think it's funny they want to be "interoperable", but Jackson County and IPD are encryped on dispatch channels, which means more money to be spent on encryption keys. I really forsee them reversing the encryption if the agencies can't hear what's going on in a neighboring community due to encryption.
You could be right about them reversing the encryption so that other agencies can monitor, but I wouldn't get my hopes up. I do know that most of the municipal police departments (Lotawana, Grain Valley, Oak Grove, Greenwood) can't monitor the county guys right now because their radios aren't loaded with the appropriate software and/or keys. Frustrates the hell out of them!

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Originally Posted by scannerowner View Post
The next thing I'd do is keep all dispatch channels in the clear so you're not wasting money on encryption keys, but then to keep tactical stuff 100% encrypted. If there's a bad enough circumstance, switch to another channel. There should be tactical channels that can be used within multiple jurisdictions and kept encrypted for safety reasons. Dispatch channels remain in the clear so other agencies can monitor without worrying about who does what. I think MOSWIN is doing great with interoperabilty, but there are still gaps that need covered.
Johnson County, KS law enforcement agencies got this one right. All of the police departments over there keep their dispatch talkgroups open. I don't think this was done so much for the public benefit, but enables surrounding agencies to monitor without having to worry about jacking around with the swapping of encryption keys. All of the "secondary" and tac stuff is locked down as it should be. It doesn't take but 2 seconds to switch over to a secure channel when one is needed.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 04-01-2014, 1:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkrharry View Post
Biggest issue is the ADP encryption being used by all the agencies currently using full time encryption.
ADP is not "inter-operable" with open P-25 encryption used by other manufacturers radios.

All those that are using full time ADP encryption are essentially orphaned to those that are using open P-25 encryption.

Plus key management can be a hassle as well.

ADP encryption is a Motorola proprietary item.

All those agencies that chose the ADP encryption ignored the requirements that its radios fully interact with other brands.

Might be worth an investigation if federal $$ were used to buy them as they were required to fully interact with other brands in order to level the playing field.

JMHO....
Excellent point!
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Old 04-01-2014, 6:56 AM
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It'll just take one time of no shared communication, or someone saying something and they'll change their minds!! PVPD730, we'll just wait and see what happens! If dispatch remains in the clear it makes everyone's life a little easier...
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 04-25-2014, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkrharry View Post
Biggest issue is the ADP encryption being used by all the agencies currently using full time encryption.
ADP is not "inter-operable" with open P-25 encryption used by other manufacturers radios.

All those that are using full time ADP encryption are essentially orphaned to those that are using open P-25 encryption.
Might as well add Cass County to the list of ADP users:

http://www.casscountyesb.com/CCESB%2...1-22-2014.docx

Under section 4: " All PSAP related police agencies have encrypted their talk groups. There is a minimal cost to upgrade the dispatch consoles, back up radios, and suitcase repeaters."

I've also heard that KCKPD will do the same. Moto $alesmen must really be pushing this...
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 04-25-2014, 3:35 PM
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An interesting read that pretty much sums up what hkrharry has written:

The Use of ADP Encryption in Federal Grant Funded Programs
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 04-25-2014, 7:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by talkpair View Post
An interesting read that pretty much sums up what hkrharry has written:

The Use of ADP Encryption in Federal Grant Funded Programs
Yes, very interesting indeed. If the feds find out these agencies are using non P25 compliant encryption gear (and they care enough to actually enforce it), that could definitely be a problem. Bet that's something Motorola conveniently "forgot" to tell people when those contracts were signed.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 05-02-2014, 10:51 AM
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Interoperability was put in place for mass casualty/emergency management scenarios. There are probably over one hundred TGs set aside in MARRS alone, just for this purpose. From PD/Fire/EMS all the way to Public Works divisions, each facet has multiple TGs available to which they would be assigned during any such incident. The TGs are layered by geographics and service, with numerous TGs under each section.

Regional Comm TGs will be utilized (theoretically) from cross-border pursuits and mutual aid fire responses all the way to 9/11 and Hurricane Katrina type events.

Using proprietary encryption which limits Agency X from being able to switch over and tell Agency Y directly that a pursuit is headed their way on their primary TG is more time consuming and frustrating for the end-user because of the delayed relay of information, but interoperability wasn't designed around that type of immediate cross talk. It is in place to establish a common platform for multi-agency responses to large scale and disaster type incidents. The availability of those Regional Common TGs ensures that interoperability is in place, just as it is required. Nobody operates encrypted on the Regional TGs.

I'm not here to discuss whether or not agencies using ADP are following Federal guidelines to receive grant money. I'm simply pointing out the fact that every radio on MARRS will cross-talk on the appropriate TGs when needed, and that's all that matters when SHTF.
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Old 05-13-2014, 9:40 PM
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Cass County Radio IDs are now showing up on the Cass County part of the MARRS system
cc is 851.1000

Talkgroups IDs logged so far:
34559 - Encrypted radio traffic heard - this one is fairly active not sure of the agency.
34615 - Encrypted radio traffic heard
34623 - South Metro Fire Dispatch (Added to RR DB today)
34634 - Encrypted radio traffic heard
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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2014, 10:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkrharry View Post
Cass County Radio IDs are now showing up on the Cass County part of the MARRS system
cc is 851.1000

Talkgroups IDs logged so far:
34559 - Encrypted radio traffic heard - this one is fairly active not sure of the agency.
34615 - Encrypted radio traffic heard
34623 - South Metro Fire Dispatch (Added to RR DB today)
34634 - Encrypted radio traffic heard
Some how I can decode Cass Co with Pro96com up here by Liberty, talkgroups are 34550 - 34699, almost all of them 100% ENC, some fire and city works are in the clear.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2014, 10:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wbigcount View Post
Some how I can decode Cass Co with Pro96com up here by Liberty, talkgroups are 34550 - 34699, almost all of them 100% ENC, some fire and city works are in the clear.
What ones have your heard?

The only one I have heard in the clear is South Metro Fire.

and how do you know the range of Ids?

Care to share?

hh
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 05-14-2014, 12:17 PM
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Here are 3 talk groups I have heard.

34564- Belton Fire
34623- South Metro Fire (Raymore)
34672- Emergency Managment/Public works Belton I think or Raymore
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 05-14-2014, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkrharry View Post
What ones have your heard?

The only one I have heard in the clear is South Metro Fire.

and how do you know the range of Ids?

Care to share?

hh
I will do my best here,

All Id's 34550-34699 are new, they all are only allowed to affiliate with Cass county towers and denied affiliation with KC or Jackson towers, All the new radio Id's go along with the new talkgroups.

MARRS has been good keeping radio id's in blocks for each agency, same thing with talkgroups.

Right now I have 1,020 talkgroups and over 14,000 radio Id's in Proc96com, I have most of the Id blocks identified to at least the agency and many of them are unit specific, it is easy to see the patterns and or groups with this many Id's

I will add the clear talkgroups here in a few (crazy children premiting)

Edit
Here is some of the active talkgroups today that are in the clear

34564
34573
34577
34683
34594
34596
34615
34618
34619
34620
34621
34623
34649
34665
34672
34684

Last edited by wbigcount; 05-14-2014 at 1:16 PM..
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 05-21-2014, 10:42 PM
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Is Belton PD or Belton Fire encrypted?

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk
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Old 05-21-2014, 11:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgolden2 View Post
Is Belton PD or Belton Fire encrypted?

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk
Belton PD and all other Cass County LE agencies are encrypted. Belton Fire is in the clear. From what I understand, everyone cutover to the new system today.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 05-22-2014, 11:00 AM
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I'm at MARC downtown for a training class (MARC is who controls all the PSAPS and radios in the region) and I'm hearing a rep talking about a serious lack of coverage with their new radio system between Harrisonville and Belton. Doesn't sound like a good thing to have spent 14 million dollars on new radios to not have them work.

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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 05-22-2014, 6:57 PM
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Not to get off topic, but i too have heard what sounded like Belton FD; from where i was It dd not rx very well, then heading south from Springfield they were asking area units to switch to low band to check ? tower (i forgot which one ) several units were called and switch over - could not hear anything on the 42 megs; did not have a good low band antenna for it.....
What radios do they use ? not many manufactures of low band equipment out there
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 05-27-2014, 9:56 PM
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There are 2 KC MARRS threads
Not sure where to post this?

I'm in Olathe off of 159th St.,


Picking up Tower 303, not listed in DB.
It's not sending a CWID
Well just as I typed this..Broadcasting Changeme CWID (LOL)
Happy Hunting guys, lol.



Code:
System ID             : 2B0
System Name           : Kansas City Metro - Metropolitan Area Regional Radio System (MARRS)
WACN                  : BEE00
Tower Number (Decimal): 3-3
Tower Number (Hex)    : T0303
Tower Description     : 
Control Capabilities  : Data,Voice,Registration
Call Sign(s)          : CHANGEME
Timestamp             : Tue May 27 21:55:32 2014

-Tables
#Format: Table ID,Base Freq,Spacing,Input Offset,Assumed/Confirmed,BandWidth,Slots
00,851.00625,0.00625,-45.00000,"Confirmed",0.00625,1
01,762.00625,0.00625,30.00000,"Confirmed",0.00625,1

-Frequencies
#Format: Channel,Usage,Frequency(/Slot),Input Channel,Input Frequency(/Slot),Input Explicit(1/0),Hit Count
"00-0705","c",855.41250,"00-0705",810.41250,0,0
"00-0861","a",856.38750,"00-0861",811.38750,0,0
"00-1021","a",857.38750,"00-1021",812.38750,0,0
"00-1181","a",858.38750,"00-1181",813.38750,0,0
"00-1333","i",859.33750,"00-1333",814.33750,0,5
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Last edited by BaLa; 05-27-2014 at 10:05 PM..
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 05-27-2014, 10:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaLa View Post
There are 2 KC MARRS threads
Not sure where to post this?

I'm in Olathe off of 159th St.,


Picking up Tower 303, not listed in DB.
It's not sending a CWID
Well just as I typed this..Broadcasting Changeme CWID (LOL)
Happy Hunting guys, lol.



Code:
System ID             : 2B0
System Name           : Kansas City Metro - Metropolitan Area Regional Radio System (MARRS)
WACN                  : BEE00
Tower Number (Decimal): 3-3
Tower Number (Hex)    : T0303
Tower Description     : 
Control Capabilities  : Data,Voice,Registration
Call Sign(s)          : CHANGEME
Timestamp             : Tue May 27 21:55:32 2014

-Tables
#Format: Table ID,Base Freq,Spacing,Input Offset,Assumed/Confirmed,BandWidth,Slots
00,851.00625,0.00625,-45.00000,"Confirmed",0.00625,1
01,762.00625,0.00625,30.00000,"Confirmed",0.00625,1

-Frequencies
#Format: Channel,Usage,Frequency(/Slot),Input Channel,Input Frequency(/Slot),Input Explicit(1/0),Hit Count
"00-0705","c",855.41250,"00-0705",810.41250,0,0
"00-0861","a",856.38750,"00-0861",811.38750,0,0
"00-1021","a",857.38750,"00-1021",812.38750,0,0
"00-1181","a",858.38750,"00-1181",813.38750,0,0
"00-1333","i",859.33750,"00-1333",814.33750,0,5
WQTA969 (JOHNSON, COUNTY OF) FCC Callsign Details

Looks like Olathe has there own tower or something.
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