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Old 02-09-2014, 12:46 PM
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Default Kansas City metro area MARRS P25 System (2014)

Please post all related questions and discussions here
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Old 02-09-2014, 1:01 PM
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Default New KC P25 to replace EDACS

To Whom It May Concern:
Kansas City, MO currently operates on an eight site, 24 channel EDACS Analog Simulcast 800 MHZ trunked system that has been in operation since 1993. This system, operating under call signs WPMJ627 and WPMP439 has reached its end of life.
The age of the system make parts either no longer available or hard to come by, which increasingly puts the system at risk of a disruption to Public Safety communications.
The City has contracted with Motorola to replace this system with a Project 25 compliant digital simulcast system that will be expanded to nine radio sites and 30 radio frequencies. Replacing the existing legacy system with the new APCO Project 25 compliant simulcast radio system, will allow a new consolidated frequency plan that will
improve communications through its digital operation, as well as allow enhanced ground communications for fire and police using digital vehicular repeaters.
Likewise, this expansion will accommodate the 6151 units operating for Kansas City, MO, plus the additional 375 units being supported on the system for the Cities of Riverside, Gladstone, and North Kansas City, MO. The system is to be used for police, fire, KC metropolitan ambulance system, hospitals, and other local government and
public safety personnel for the greater Kansas City area and surrounding cities, as noted. It will improve overall communications capability for all public safety agencies, which in turn will greatly support the protection and safety of lives and property of this
large metroplex.

Kansas City has completed its rebanding plan and has received Sprint/Nextel notification that they have cleared the “replacement frequencies” that the City is to
receive through their permanent application filing that is being filed
with APCO under
separate applications. Sprint/Nextel’s letter is attached.
Before the Public Safety users can be transitioned to the new system it must be tested and its functionality verified. In order to facilitate an orderly cutover to the new system in the time frame required by the rebanding agreement this testing had to be constructed. In order to do so, the City of Kansas City, MO
was granted two STAs under FCC Rule Section 1.931.
The City continues to operate under the STAs (Call Signs WQOC757 and WQOC760) that they will continue to renew until grant of their permanent license

Application - 0006129858 ULS Application - PubSafty/SpecEmer/PubSaftyNtlPlan,806-817/851-862MHz,Trunked - 0006129858 - KANSAS CITY, CITY OF - Administration

Add 1 - Fixed 414 E. 12TH ST.
KANSAS CITY, MO JACKSON County 39-06-02.0 N, 094-34-39.0 W
Add 2 - Fixed 75TH & HOLMES
KANSAS CITY, MO JACKSON County 38-59-25.0 N, 094-34-55.8 W
Add 3 - Fixed 46TH & NE BRISTOL
KANSAS CITY, MO CLAY County 39-11-00.7 N, 094-29-53.7 W
Add 4 - Fixed 9205 NW 112TH ST
KANSAS CITY, MO PLATTE County 39-17-41.0 N, 094-41-15.4 W

Frequency
000851.48750000
000852.05000000
000852.07500000
000851.32500000
000851.60000000
000851.82500000
000851.86250000
000852.17500000
000852.22500000
000852.41250000
000852.43750000
000852.58750000
000852.66250000
000852.73750000
000852.87500000
000852.96250000
000852.98750000
000853.15000000
000853.23750000
000853.48750000
000853.73750000


Simulcast - Application - 0006130488 http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/Appl...applID=8112154

Add 1 - Fixed 5100 ROCKHILL ROAD
KANSAS CITY, MO JACKSON County 39-02-00.0 N, 094-34-30.8 W
Add 2 - Fixed 6801 BOOTH AVENUE
KANSAS CITY, MO JACKSON County 39-00-01.9 N, 094-29-11.9 W
Add 3 - Fixed 113TH & BENNINGTON RUSKIN WATER TOWER SITE
KANSAS CITY, MO JACKSON County 38-55-13.0 N, 094-30-45.0 W
Add 4 - Fixed NR INT BARRY RD & US HWY 169 N
KANSAS CITY, MO CLAY County 39-14-40.0 N, 094-35-31.0 W
Add 5 - Fixed 4001 NW TREMONT RD
RIVERSIDE, MO PLATTE County 39-10-02.9 N, 094-37-22.0 W

Frequency
000851.32500000
000851.60000000
000851.82500000
000851.86250000
000852.17500000
000852.22500000
000852.41250000
000852.43750000
000852.58750000
000852.66250000
000852.73750000
000852.87500000
000852.96250000
000852.98750000
000853.15000000
000853.23750000
000853.48750000
000853.73750000
000851.05000000
000851.48750000
000852.05000000
000852.07500000
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Old 02-09-2014, 1:10 PM
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Default Fixed& Simulcast

could you explain to me the deference between what the term "Fixed" location" and fixed Simulcast location means for me? thank you...
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Old 02-09-2014, 1:21 PM
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On FCC licenses and applications a location that is Fixed means a transmitter installed at a permanent location (tower, etc.) that doesn't move. The latitude, longitude, height above ground and height above average terrain must be included on the application.

Mobile normally means vehicle or hand held radios that can move around to various locations for various periods of time, they are licensed to operate in a radius around a particular latitude/longitude point or other geographical area like a county or state.

Simulcast means several stations transmitting the same signal at the same time on the same frequency.
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Last edited by nd5y; 02-09-2014 at 1:33 PM..
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Old 02-09-2014, 1:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Starcom21 View Post
To Whom It May Concern:
Kansas City, MO currently operates on an eight site, 24 channel EDACS Analog Simulcast 800 MHZ trunked system that has been in operation since 1993. This system, operating under call signs WPMJ627 and WPMP439 has reached its end of life.
The age of the system make parts either no longer available or hard to come by, which increasingly puts the system at risk of a disruption to Public Safety communications.
The City has contracted with Motorola to replace this system with a Project 25 compliant digital simulcast system that will be expanded to nine radio sites and 30 radio frequencies. Replacing the existing legacy system with the new APCO Project 25 compliant simulcast radio system, will allow a new consolidated frequency plan that will
improve communications through its digital operation, as well as allow enhanced ground communications for fire and police using digital vehicular repeaters.
Likewise, this expansion will accommodate the 6151 units operating for Kansas City, MO, plus the additional 375 units being supported on the system for the Cities of Riverside, Gladstone, and North Kansas City, MO. The system is to be used for police, fire, KC metropolitan ambulance system, hospitals, and other local government and
public safety personnel for the greater Kansas City area and surrounding cities, as noted. It will improve overall communications capability for all public safety agencies, which in turn will greatly support the protection and safety of lives and property of this
large metroplex.

Kansas City has completed its rebanding plan and has received Sprint/Nextel notification that they have cleared the “replacement frequencies” that the City is to
receive through their permanent application filing that is being filed
with APCO under
separate applications. Sprint/Nextel’s letter is attached.
Before the Public Safety users can be transitioned to the new system it must be tested and its functionality verified. In order to facilitate an orderly cutover to the new system in the time frame required by the rebanding agreement this testing had to be constructed. In order to do so, the City of Kansas City, MO
was granted two STAs under FCC Rule Section 1.931.
The City continues to operate under the STAs (Call Signs WQOC757 and WQOC760) that they will continue to renew until grant of their permanent license

Application - 0006129858 ULS Application - PubSafty/SpecEmer/PubSaftyNtlPlan,806-817/851-862MHz,Trunked - 0006129858 - KANSAS CITY, CITY OF - Administration

Add 1 - Fixed 414 E. 12TH ST.
KANSAS CITY, MO JACKSON County 39-06-02.0 N, 094-34-39.0 W
Add 2 - Fixed 75TH & HOLMES
KANSAS CITY, MO JACKSON County 38-59-25.0 N, 094-34-55.8 W
Add 3 - Fixed 46TH & NE BRISTOL
KANSAS CITY, MO CLAY County 39-11-00.7 N, 094-29-53.7 W
Add 4 - Fixed 9205 NW 112TH ST
KANSAS CITY, MO PLATTE County 39-17-41.0 N, 094-41-15.4 W

Frequency
000851.48750000
000852.05000000
000852.07500000
000851.32500000
000851.60000000
000851.82500000
000851.86250000
000852.17500000
000852.22500000
000852.41250000
000852.43750000
000852.58750000
000852.66250000
000852.73750000
000852.87500000
000852.96250000
000852.98750000
000853.15000000
000853.23750000
000853.48750000
000853.73750000


Simulcast - Application - 0006130488 http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/Appl...applID=8112154

Add 1 - Fixed 5100 ROCKHILL ROAD
KANSAS CITY, MO JACKSON County 39-02-00.0 N, 094-34-30.8 W
Add 2 - Fixed 6801 BOOTH AVENUE
KANSAS CITY, MO JACKSON County 39-00-01.9 N, 094-29-11.9 W
Add 3 - Fixed 113TH & BENNINGTON RUSKIN WATER TOWER SITE
KANSAS CITY, MO JACKSON County 38-55-13.0 N, 094-30-45.0 W
Add 4 - Fixed NR INT BARRY RD & US HWY 169 N
KANSAS CITY, MO CLAY County 39-14-40.0 N, 094-35-31.0 W
Add 5 - Fixed 4001 NW TREMONT RD
RIVERSIDE, MO PLATTE County 39-10-02.9 N, 094-37-22.0 W

Frequency
000851.32500000
000851.60000000
000851.82500000
000851.86250000
000852.17500000
000852.22500000
000852.41250000
000852.43750000
000852.58750000
000852.66250000
000852.73750000
000852.87500000
000852.96250000
000852.98750000
000853.15000000
000853.23750000
000853.48750000
000853.73750000
000851.05000000
000851.48750000
000852.05000000
000852.07500000
I thought we were already on the a Apco 25 ?....Why are they changing the control channels already?..So we will be re-programing KCMO soon? in our scanners?....I know I'm asking a lot of questions sorry...

Last edited by KC0CSE; 02-09-2014 at 1:49 PM..
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Old 02-09-2014, 2:10 PM
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I didn't see a date when is this supposed to be complaint?
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Old 02-09-2014, 3:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KC0CSE View Post
I thought we were already on the a Apco 25 ?....Why are they changing the control channels already?..So we will be re-programing KCMO soon? in our scanners?....I know I'm asking a lot of questions sorry...
They are applying for a permanent license for 10 years...before the FCC gave them a temporary license for only a few years once they started the system.

I was studying the site locations earlier, and got it in layman's terms figured out, I think. The sites are all connected via microwave. When someone transmits in the area of a tower they're "affiliated" with it gets broadcasted on each of the other sites on that frequency. With each site using the same frequencies, it's quite easy to simulcast it. They are just thinking it's best for their coverage around the city, that's why eastern Jackson County has their own, but can roam onto KC's, and JOCO, and soon to be Cass County. Cass County will be simulcasted throughout many sites throughout the county.

The lower the frequency, the longer distance it travels; therefore, 800mhz travels not as far as VHF so they need more tower sites. They're using 800 since it's a metropolitan area, but other areas use mainly VHF to get the distance they need which is why the state went to MOSWIN being VHF and not 800mhz (cost efficent too).

Is this all making sense? If it doesn't PM me and I can try to explain it better.
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Old 02-09-2014, 3:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scannerowner View Post
They are applying for a permanent license for 10 years...before the FCC gave them a temporary license for only a few years once they started the system.

I was studying the site locations earlier, and got it in layman's terms figured out, I think. The sites are all connected via microwave. When someone transmits in the area of a tower they're "affiliated" with it gets broadcasted on each of the other sites on that frequency. With each site using the same frequencies, it's quite easy to simulcast it. They are just thinking it's best for their coverage around the city, that's why eastern Jackson County has their own, but can roam onto KC's, and JOCO, and soon to be Cass County. Cass County will be simulcasted throughout many sites throughout the county.

The lower the frequency, the longer distance it travels; therefore, 800mhz travels not as far as VHF so they need more tower sites. They're using 800 since it's a metropolitan area, but other areas use mainly VHF to get the distance they need which is why the state went to MOSWIN being VHF and not 800mhz (cost efficent too).

Is this all making sense? If it doesn't PM me and I can try to explain it better.
Yes it does...they are using an alternate control channel for some time now 851.6000...instead of there CC they started out with...thanks. May still have to re-program CC channels in the future maybe ....maybe not.. oh by the way your not investing in the new uniden scanner yet? have not talked to you in a while...Mike
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Old 02-09-2014, 8:41 PM
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I took the 436HP up I-35 from Franklin County to about 93rd and Metcalf today. I used both the RadioShack 800 antenna and an external non optimized for 800 antenna. I noticed no simulcast errors and everything was rock solid and clear. Most of the KCMO monitoring was from about 135th and Metcalf to 93rd and Metcalf and back South when the KCMO sites were out of range somewhere in the Olathe area. It reminded me of EDACS again coverage wise. The PRO-197 would often fluctuate and drop in and out with pockets of clean decode and broken voice. I did not experience that with the 436. It was rock solid reception the entire way.

Thought you guys might be interested.
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Old 02-10-2014, 3:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mancow View Post
I took the 436HP up I-35 from Franklin County to about 93rd and Metcalf today. I used both the RadioShack 800 antenna and an external non optimized for 800 antenna. I noticed no simulcast errors and everything was rock solid and clear. Most of the KCMO monitoring was from about 135th and Metcalf to 93rd and Metcalf and back South when the KCMO sites were out of range somewhere in the Olathe area. It reminded me of EDACS again coverage wise. The PRO-197 would often fluctuate and drop in and out with pockets of clean decode and broken voice. I did not experience that with the 436. It was rock solid reception the entire way.

Thought you guys might be interested.
Thank you for taking the time to do this...Mike
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Old 02-13-2014, 7:30 AM
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436HP for KCMO MARRS site works great downtown, near the Stadiums, 63rd and I435. Also, down at 135th and Holmes. Those last two locations I've previously had the most problems with simulcast on HP1, 396T and PSR-800. After about 10 hours of mobile use with a RS800 antenna, I did not hear any of the usual issues with simulcast.
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Old 02-13-2014, 7:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KCoax View Post
436HP for KCMO MARRS site works great downtown, near the Stadiums, 63rd and I435. Also, down at 135th and Holmes. Those last two locations I've previously had the most problems with simulcast on HP1, 396T and PSR-800. After about 10 hours of mobile use with a RS800 antenna, I did not hear any of the usual issues with simulcast.
like to here more reports like that...thank you for taking the time out of your day to do so...
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Old 02-16-2014, 11:08 AM
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MHP was testing on TGID 34045 last week. I wonder if Troop A will use KC area MARRS same as KHP
on the Kansas side?
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Old 02-16-2014, 11:01 PM
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Does Parkville PD have their own talkgroup? I know they are dispatched by Platte County but if itty-bitty Randolph has their own talkgroup I thought surely Parkville has their own, too. But I don't see it in the database. Anyone know if Parkville has a tg and what it might be? Thanks

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Old 02-17-2014, 7:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgolden2 View Post
Does Parkville PD have their own talkgroup? I know they are dispatched by Platte County but if itty-bitty Randolph has their own talkgroup I thought surely Parkville has their own, too. But I don't see it in the database. Anyone know if Parkville has a tg and what it might be? Thanks

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To my knowledge, they don't have their own. They use 34100 for dispatch and the other county talkgroups for tactical and car to car needs. I believe their radio numbers are in the 600's.
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Old 02-24-2014, 9:50 AM
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Yeah, 34045 is MHP Troop A Lee's Summit Dispatch. Lots of DB updates this week.
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Old 03-30-2014, 10:41 AM
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Found this article in the KC star which was published yesterday:

With the help of friends in government, Motorola achieves telecom supremacy - KansasCity.com

If you scroll down to the last part of the article, you'll find some very interesting information about the KC Metro MARRS system.
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Old 03-30-2014, 10:52 AM
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Oh man. They have Motorola looking like the bad guy. I thought they were a little tought on them, however they didn't even mention too many competitors. The usual KC Star one-sided story.
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Old 03-30-2014, 1:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bchappuie View Post
Oh man. They have Motorola looking like the bad guy. I thought they were a little tought on them, however they didn't even mention too many competitors. The usual KC Star one-sided story.
Perhaps, but that quote in one of the captions about the KDOT system is a rather interesting.
"was competitively bid" because bids were taken in 1991.


"Kansas City’s Metropolitan Area Regional Radio System is known as a sparkling success story in the nation’s push for seamless communication among public safety workers."

Yeah, heard this on the scanner this morning.

Dispatcher: Calling Unit
Different unit calling back: "He can hear you, radios don't work at station."

Would of like to of seen some user feedback in the article.
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Old 03-30-2014, 10:02 PM
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I think it's funny they want to be "interoperable", but Jackson County and IPD are encryped on dispatch channels, which means more money to be spent on encryption keys. I really forsee them reversing the encryption if the agencies can't hear what's going on in a neighboring community due to encryption.

A perfect system, in my eyes, allows all users to roam between sites seamlessly and communication to other departments without the use of going through dispatch centers to get information spread quickly and efficiently. Here's my little rant:

I have a vision that MARRS will intertie with MOSWIN, KSICS, and Buchanan County and Joplin P25. The thing is spending money to upgrade radios to be able to roam onto "foreign" sites. What I would do is get all the P25 radio systems in the state change their system IDs to match MOSWIN's that way it's easy to allow roaming. From there all troopers and local officers will have dual band radios (yes MSHP does) to be able to use these sites, all with one radio! If I remember correctly, you can scan all the channels to monitor, but when you key your mic, it goes to your dispatch channel assigned. The State of KS has their own, which ties in via ISSI. Sounds easy to me to keep state's with different system ids?! The next thing I'd do is keep all dispatch channels in the clear so you're not wasting money on encryption keys, but then to keep tactical stuff 100% encrypted. If there's a bad enough circumstance, switch to another channel. There should be tactical channels that can be used within multiple jurisdictions and kept encrypted for safety reasons. Dispatch channels remain in the clear so other agencies can monitor without worrying about who does what. I think MOSWIN is doing great with interoperabilty, but there are still gaps that need covered.

Again, this is just my two cents worth, but that's just me!
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