XTS 3000 programming problem

surfsup28 · #1 (**permalink**) 02-03-2012, 06:22 AM

Just wondering if anyone can help me in programming an xts 3000 properly. I know how to basically program these radios but are these radios smart enough to only work from the control channels or do they require all voice and control frquencies to be entered.

Im guessing maybe you would need the system keys from a sytem to follow the coversations and to fuction properly...

p.s im wanting to follow a p25 trunking network

radioman2001 · #2 (**permalink**) 02-03-2012, 07:28 AM

This is not the forum for asking these kinds of questions. Putting a radio on a trunking system is computer trespass in some jurisdictions. Your best bet is to do a lot of reading and searching the internet, the info is out there, but you will not find anyone in their right mind who is going to give you step by step procedures.

surfsup28 · #3 (**permalink**) 02-03-2012, 08:22 AM

Radioman2001, .i did ask a simple question on a MOTOROLA forum...Radioman2001 your answer is not warranted here, And dont think you own this forum to be telling people what they can put on here...thankyou.
(An exceptional amount of expletives had to be removed from this post to make it G Rated)

radioman2001 · #4 (**permalink**) 02-03-2012, 09:30 AM

Don't bother getting upset, that's the company line here. System keys are propriartary and you risk getting into big trouble with them. I put radios on trunking systems all the time, and if you don't know what you are doing your are more likely to get your radio bricked, and that nobody but Motorola can fix. Like I said try Yahoo groups for the info.
BTW I don't get upset at people's expletives, it just means that I definitely won't give you the answer you are looking for.

oemctx4 · #5 (**permalink**) 02-03-2012, 06:41 PM

surfsup28
Back in the day repeater owners charged rent by the radio. You had 5 radios you paid so much. You added more radios you paid more to use them. Well it was easy to buy radios from say John's radio and not tell the owner of the repeater you did that so you would only pay for 5 radios. Well when Motorola wrote the software for 800 Mhz. trunking provided the key to the owner of the system so you couldn't add more radios with out being billed for them. That is where the key began in the late 70's 80's 90 etc with Type I trunking since Motorola Network Services owned the most community repeaters . Most of the SMR systems went off the air around 2000 and Nextel purchased those freqs.

Nowadays it's used to prevent you from programing your non authorized radio's control channels and ids and talk groups into that radio. Where I work we scan for radios that aren't part of our network and send the inhibit command to them via the control channel. I hope that helps you some.
#4

surfsup28 · #6 (**permalink**) 02-03-2012, 08:58 PM

First of all Radioman2001,whats with the attitude ? Seems as though you have a bee in your bonnet about something.
Did you read the actual question ? it was quite simple, or did you just jump to a conclusion that i was going to ask someone for an sytem key or something. pfffttt
The actual question was about a radios functionality and what capabilties it had.
My simple response is, if you dont like a question , go somewhere else and not ruin a good forum where people come to exchange ides...
Thanks

If theres anyone out there with genuine answers or who are willing to share, your welcome to answer it..

MikeOxlong · #7 (**permalink**) 02-04-2012, 07:44 AM

Surfsup, you do realize that your xts3000 will not follow a p25 trunking system without special firmware?

There's not many of them out there with this firmware.

Skypilot007 · #8 (**permalink**) 02-04-2012, 11:47 AM

Surfsup: I use an XTS3000 for monitoring. Like mentioned above if this is a true P25 system you're probably out of luck as that firmware is pretty rare. Though you can have a look at this chaps video Motorola ASTRO 25 Radios, How to scan a trunking network - YouTube and it might provide some insight but he's using an astro25 portable and CPS. If its a legacy 3600 system it will work just fine. Set up your trunking system with the control channels only, no need for voice channels. Shoot me a PM if you need further help...to many wanabe radio cops on here for me to deal with. Cheers!

XTS3000 · #9 (**permalink**) 02-05-2012, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by radioman2001

Don't bother getting upset, that's the company line here. System keys are propriartary and you risk getting into big trouble with them. I put radios on trunking systems all the time, and if you don't know what you are doing your are more likely to get your radio bricked, and that nobody but Motorola can fix. Like I said try Yahoo groups for the info.
BTW I don't get upset at people's expletives, it just means that I definitely won't give you the answer you are looking for.

System Keys are propriartary, but not copyrighted or trademarked in any way. It is not illegal to make or posses them. A System Key is nothing but a string of about 40 characters with an extension of .key. A system key can be made in notepad. A System Key is not encrypted. Motorola's System Key Generator is copyrighted, but making a System Key with notepad is not.

Radios don't get bricked, but inhibited. When a radio gets inhibited, it goes in a state of hibernation. In this hibernation state, the radio will not RX or TX normal radio traffic, but is still listening to the control channel for a revival hit to bring the radio back to life.

When a radio gets inhibited, only 2 bytes of data are changed in the dynamic block of the codeplug. That's it, 2 bytes in the codeplug prevent the radio from working. Smart people figure out where these 2 bytes are, and change them back to bring an inhibited radio back to life.

surfsup28 · #10 (**permalink**) 02-05-2012, 07:06 AM

thanks guys for all your comments...Maybe i should have written my question without the words SYTSEM Id KEY in it...
I can listen to this network on my XTS radio by entering a few channels and scanning them. i just wasnt sure if the radio could follow these properly or not.

RKG · #11 (**permalink**) 02-05-2012, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by surfsup28

. . . . I know how to basically program these radios but are these radios smart enough to only work from the control channels or do they require all voice and control frquencies to be entered. . . .

I hope you won't take this the wrong way, but the quoted question discloses that your knowledge of how Motorola trunked system work is such that you should not be programming such radios.

surfsup28 · #12 (**permalink**) 02-05-2012, 07:28 PM

RKG, I hope you won't take this the wrong way, but your quoted question discloses that your knowledge and understanding of how these forums work, is such that you should not be posting such posts.

Forums are for learning, and swapping ideas right ?

Swapping information here doesnt mean that people are using the forums for illegal purposes. Does this mean, a company trying to buy and program its own radios, shouldnt be able to come to a place like this to get hints and tips.

n7lxi · #13 (**permalink**) 02-05-2012, 08:15 PM

Hey Surf, I understand wanting to use an XTS to follow a trunked system, but it's just a bad idea.

For one, programming a radio onto a system that you're not authorized to be on is a crime.

Second, most system admins routinely monitor the system and stun/inhibit unauthorized radios, effectively turning your radio into a Motorola shaped paperweight.

Lastly, your radio can disrupt comms on the system. And that's not something you want to do.

If you're coming to radio reference to ask for help on how to program the radio to monitor a trunk system, it's beyond your scope. And nobody here will tell you how to do it.

Buy a scanner. It's easier, legal and won't end up bricked.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk. Sorry for any spelling errors.

MTS2000des · #14 (**permalink**) 02-05-2012, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by surfsup28

RKG, I hope you won't take this the wrong way, but your quoted question discloses that your knowledge and understanding of how these forums work, is such that you should not be posting such posts.

Forums are for learning, and swapping ideas right ?

Swapping information here doesnt mean that people are using the forums for illegal purposes. Does this mean, a company trying to buy and program its own radios, shouldnt be able to come to a place like this to get hints and tips.

because programming trunking radios, especially on someone else's network, is not just as simple as asking a few questions on a forum.

Motorola and Kenwood both give week long classes on it. I know, I've been to many. They also cost a ton of money. (at least with Motorola, Kenwood OTOH, didn't charge us).

Improper programming can create problems for the network management, the network itself, and in the case of public safety users, even jeopardize legitimate users on the system safety.

Many of us work in the industry, are power users of said systems, or have other vested interests in keeping the integrity of such networks intact.

As it was said before, too often well meaning hobbyists who lack proper expertise, and proper software and hardware, create headaches they are completely unaware of "just trying to listen".

a scanner never affiliates or attempts to affiliate, with anyone's network.

your question is the automotive equivalent of getting on a racing forum and asking "how do I rebuild my engine of my 1978 Pontiac Firebird" without even the basic knowledge of what kind of motor you have, how to use tools, or general mechanic work.

the links provided above are great info, but it's for people who have a basic knowledge of programming software, Astro 25 radios, differences in flashcode options and firmware- etc.

if all that appears above your head, then you've got lots more reading and studying to do before you get into this.

mancow · #15 (**permalink**) 02-05-2012, 09:36 PM

Yes and no. It depends what you mean by properly following. Sure, you can enter the voice channels as a conventional zone and scan those. You will hear the audio but it won't be mapped to any talkgroups of course. In a busy system you will be lost very quickly. If the system you are listening to has fairly light traffic and you are familiar enough with it then it's not that big of an issue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by surfsup28

thanks guys for all your comments...Maybe i should have written my question without the words SYTSEM Id KEY in it...
I can listen to this network on my XTS radio by entering a few channels and scanning them. i just wasnt sure if the radio could follow these properly or not.

surfsup28 · #16 (**permalink**) 02-06-2012, 04:47 AM

Ok thanks guys...

commscanaus · #17 (**permalink**) 02-06-2012, 06:13 AM

I will chime in here due to being another RR member from the same country as Surfsup.

Our local market has been flooded with cheap XTS3000's since most state governments have upgraded from type II Smartzone systems to Astro P25 systems.
They can be had for as little as AUD$150 with battery and antenna.

The system that Surfsup is most likely interested in is the New South Wales GRN, which is now an Astro P25 system.
The XTS3000 he has purchased will not be capable of Astro trunking.

Surfsup, you have asked a question, though quite legitimate, regarding a very touchy subject which is one with the potential to cause legal issues, both here in Australia and in the U.S.
You are basically asking how to hack into a private network.
That is why you got the answers as posted above!

Most of us (myself included!) would ideally like to have a proper Motorola radio to listen in with, but it is just not practical. Besides, you can only scan 16 talkgroups per zone anyway.

The GRN has a huge list of TGID's so a good scanner is the way to go.

Commscanaus.

surfsup28 · #18 (**permalink**) 02-06-2012, 09:26 AM

Thanks comscan...actually i dont own one...people assumed i owned one and was going to use it unlawfully..im just interested in the hobby and how these radios work. i do have scanners n stuff but thought about buying an XTS. Yes it is a very touchy subject but i guess i wont be asking questions like that anymore..hehe

P.s i guess there shouldnt be a motorola forum, if people cant use it for geniune discussions.

n7lxi · #19 (**permalink**) 02-07-2012, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by surfsup28

i guess there shouldnt be a motorola forum, if people cant use it for geniune discussions.

The majority of questions/discussion in the Motorola forum are "genuine". I have several Motorola radios and have found answers to several questions here (and at Batlabs) but its important to know that some topics are off limits. Specifically, "can you send me RSS/CPS" and "how do I program my radio to a TRS".

If you really want to find it, the info is out there... You just won't find it here.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk. Sorry for any spelling errors.

KD0NDO · #20 (**permalink**) 02-10-2012, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skypilot007

Surfsup: I use an XTS3000 for monitoring. Like mentioned above if this is a true P25 system you're probably out of luck as that firmware is pretty rare. Though you can have a look at this chaps video Motorola ASTRO 25 Radios, How to scan a trunking network - YouTube and it might provide some insight but he's using an astro25 portable and CPS. If its a legacy 3600 system it will work just fine. Set up your trunking system with the control channels only, no need for voice channels. Shoot me a PM if you need further help...to many wanabe radio cops on here for me to deal with. Cheers!

so would that work on a 9600 baud system?