What is required to get set up to program Motorola industrial radios

[cbanzet]

I am new to this forum and if there is a more approprite forum in which to post this, please let me know.

My company is interested in being able to program its own radios. We have a proper, recently obtained, FCC license for the frequencies we use. We are not interested in cutting in corners or doing anything shady.

We use primarily Motorola PR400s and CP200s and are in the UHF frequency range.

[cmdrwill]

You will need a account at Motorola online. Then a signed license for the software to purchase.

You will also need programming cables, battery blocks and a regulated power supply. A wattmeter and RF cables.

You will have to have a way of verifying the programming.

LOTS of MONEY..........

[cbanzet]

Thank you cmdrwill for your prompt response. I have a couple of radio geeks on staff that probably have some of the stuff we need hardware-wise.

I was also concerned about the FCC. I would think they have some oversight on who has the capability to program radios.

Depending on how much LOTS of money is, it will probably still be worth it. Our business really depends on these radios and we have really bad luck trying to find a dependable radio service shop. We gladly pay to have radios serviced, but can't accept the uncertainty of when or if the repair facilities we have near us will get around to repairing our radios.

[W2NJS]

Originally Posted by cmdrwill

You will need a account at Motorola online. Then a signed license for the software to purchase. You will also need programming cables, battery blocks and a regulated power supply. A wattmeter and RF cables. You will have to have a way of verifying the programming.
LOTS of MONEY..........

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Sounds scary, but it needn't be.

You need the program which is licensed to you by Motorola, with updates for about three years included,
and it will cost you between $200 and $350.
You will need a programming cable, again from Motorola, which might be $50 to $150.
You will need a, hopefully, dedicated laptop computer which works with your program from Motorola. You can estimate the cost of this on your own.
You will need battery chargers, probably multi-unit ones, for charging batteries.
You need two reliable people, both of whom can run the program and set up the radios. Some programs are very simple, but much more complicated ones (often requiring formal training) are common these days.
You probably should also have a decent piece of test equipment, such as a service monitor, which will cost you upwards for $2,000 in used form and a lot more if new. These units are customarily sent back to the factory once or twice a year for testing and calibration.

I've left out anything about antennas, repeaters, mobiles, portables, etc. because they were not a part of your question, but they're still integral parts of your system.

[cg]

For minor programming only (changing IDs, scan settings, etc) , you wouldn't need meters or a service monitor. That would assume any calibration or problems go out to a vendor.
I would imagine it would add up quickly of you need to change IDs or alias lists every few months and have to use a radio shop.

chris

[Wyandotte]

By any chance, are you a multi-plant company, and another plant has already bought the software, even if they are in another state? That's what happened to us. I bought the Trbo software. A year later another plant in another state tried to buy it. Moto told them "You already own that, get a copy".

I don't think you need to buy a service monitor just yet. What exactly are you doing?
If you're just running a bunch of simplex handhelds, the programming is pretty straight forward.
You're going to be into about $600 for two software subscriptions, I'm pretty sure your two radios you listed take different software packages. Same with the cables, two different cables, about $80 a piece.

Since you already have radios and antennas, I don't see an additional cost there. I do suggest you get a six bank charger for each battery you use. When you get new batteries in, give them an overnight charge yourself. Don't depend on the user to do it, they generally are not going to wait much longer than the green light to use the radio.
The initial cost of buying the chargers will be more that offset down the road by the savings on batteries.

If you are using a repeater or some sort of trunking system, I suggest you let a shop maintain the repeater. It's going to cost less to go that route, instead of buying the equipment needed to maintain a system like that.

And finally, if at all possible, try to not tell your users the radios will scan. My biggest headache, as far as the radios, is everyone wants their radios to scan this and that, but not that and this, all different.

[R8000]

Wouldn't it be easier to just have your local vendor take care of this for you ? Sure you can get software, but if you don't know what your doing you can make things worse.

[n5ims]

Assuming that you plan correctly, programming your radios is probably something that's only done once when they're added to the system, perhaps again when you decommission the radio prior to selling to remove your details. Commercial radios are not something that you "tweek", but something that you set up and use until they die so you may not really need the expense of programming equipment and training. If you have a very large system with many radios, frequencies, and users you probably can justify having your own radio shop, but small businesses with only a few radios and only one or two frequencies it's quite difficult to justify the expense.

When you purchase the radios from a dealer, you can often get them to program them for you as part of the purchase agreement (it may not be free, but should be reasonable since they're making money off the radio and want to sell you more of them later). Often even eBay sellers provide a one-time programming service (10 channels or less generally) with their radios. Another advantage of using a dealer for your programming is if things are wrong, it's generally them that has to fix things and may even give you some liability transfer if the FCC sends you a violation letter. They should program the radios to the license and not add channels or modes that aren't licensed. If you do it yourself, it's you that are totally on the hook for the violation.

The FCC will happy to accept your excuse of "Sorry, I didn't know.", but they'll still want a check for the full amount of the violation. If you have a dealer do all of your setup, repairs, etc. you can tell the FCC that you really don't know anything about radios, you only use them as instructed. If there are issues, please contact our radio shop to see why they set them up improperly. You may still face a fine, but you can most likely pass that cost on to the dealer (it may require a lawsuit, but you should be able to force them to be responsible for damages they caused).

[Wyandotte]

Originally Posted by R8000

Wouldn't it be easier to just have your local vendor take care of this for you ? Sure you can get software, but if you don't know what your doing you can make things worse.

I think the answer to that question depends on how many radios you are running, and how often changes are being made. My vendor don't program for free, and we use well over a thousand radios.

[cbanzet]

I'm very, very sorry for my delayed responses, but I am on "posting probation" right now as I just recently signed up. You are all being very helpful and I would like to respond in a timely fashion to help keep the conversation going. For example, I am composing this reply at 4:05 pm PDT, but I'm not sure when it will show up in the forum.

We already have MANY radios, batteries, chargers, mikes, antennae, base stations, etc. so we are not starting this endeavor from scratch.

@Wyandotte - You are remarkably perceptive. We are an international company with sites in Canada and the US. I am only concerned with 3 sites in the state of Washington about 60 miles apart. None of the sites own any software. My counterpart in our Oregon mills might go halfsies with me on the software.

@R8000 - We would definitely prefer to use an already established vendor. There is one a stone's throw from our mill. However, they provide such HORRIBLE customer service we simply cannot use them. We tried a vendor in Tacoma, WA and they are no better. In our business, we simply would not be here if treated our customers like that. We have drawn the conclusion that all vendors in the radio business are flakes and we're better off to become self reliant. We would happily ship our equipment clear across the country to be serviced if we could find a responsible vendor. We would get our radios back sooner even iwth the shipping time.

@N5ims - the idea of the liability transfer is very appealing, but see above. We HAVE purchased radios on eBay from people I'm sure are competent and they have pre-programmed them to our frequencies. However, when they arrive, they don't work. It turns out the aforementioned vendors programmed our radios with a "tone" (not sure what that means, and it certainly was not requested) that keeps the other radios from working with ours.

@cg - it would certainly be our intention to keep the programming "minor". Mostly it would be to re-program any used radios we purchased and perhaps fix the programming that our aforementioned wonderful vendors have done.

Once again, thank you all for helping out a newbie. When I am off of probation, I'll be able to keep the dialog going better.

[MTS2000des]

doing it right means spending a bunch of money, as others have covered the basics, e.g. legitimate licensed software subscriptions, OEM programming cables/hardware, a stable laptop computer solely for programming/flashing, and a service monitor.

One thing left out is the proper training to use all of the above. Motorola has classes on how to use CPS, but anyone who is going to be tuning/aligning radios or using a service monitor should have at least at minimum an RF background (and sorry, a 2 day course on WiFi at the local tech school doesn't cut it), and preferably a CET (certified electronics technician). None of these classes are free, and neither is a CET certification or electronic engineering degree. Expect to offer a salary accordingly.

See how this adds up? You did say, not cutting corners? A good local shop with a service agreement might be a more realistic option.

Or you can half-a$$ it like I see thread after thread, but I am not gonna get into that- I am sure dozens of people will come in with their homebrew maker methods of programming radios.

My advice: if your life, your your business, your income depends on the radios to work- don't screw around, and continue down the path of doing it the right way- or seek someone who can do it for you for a fair price.

[firefive76]

Originally Posted by cbanzet

I am new to this forum and if there is a more approprite forum in which to post this, please let me know.

My company is interested in being able to program its own radios. We have a proper, recently obtained, FCC license for the frequencies we use. We are not interested in cutting in corners or doing anything shady.

We use primarily Motorola PR400s and CP200s and are in the UHF frequency range.

If you are only wanting to program your radios (I don't see anything about aligning, batteries, etc. mentioned here) you will need to do the Motorola Online account setup and software license agreement. The PR and CP are the same software package (commercial series CPS) and use the same cable.
Software-(RVN4191) $265
RIB- $200
RIB to serial cable- $52
Cable- $50

[Wyandotte]

I'm sorry, but I just can't get my head around why people are bringing service monitors and tuning and aligning into this conversation.

The OP wants to program his own radios.
Once again, just program his own radios.
What's with talking about tuning and aligning and the big bucks associated with getting a service monitor and extensive training and all that?

I've been programming my own radios since HT600's and P200's came out.
Never have owned a service monitor. The closest thing I got is a SWR meter for tuning the mobile antennas.
Here how I test radios:
I call someone else on the radio "How do I sound?" "You sound fine".

Based upon the radios he listed, I'm thinking the OP is running a bunch of handhelds on simplex. If anyone here has a really hard time programming simplex frequencies into a radio, let me know. We can help. Now if this is some sort of system, I agree that the system management is best left to a shop with the proper equipment.

[cmdrwill]

You are missing a very important point. As a licensee you are required to certify that the radios are on the correct frequencies and that the radio meets all specs.

So that means a check on a calibrated service monitor.

[MTS2000des]

Originally Posted by Wyandotte

I'm sorry, but I just can't get my head around why people are bringing service monitors and tuning and aligning into this conversation.


I've been programming my own radios since HT600's and P200's came out.
Never have owned a service monitor. The closest thing I got is a SWR meter for tuning the mobile antennas.
Here how I test radios:
I call someone else on the radio "How do I sound?" "You sound fine".

.

and that's all great, until one of those radios you program has a problem and generates a spur that interferes with someone else, and you get a letter from Gettysburg, or a visit.

The OP said he wanted to do it right.

[W2NJS]

Sorry but I have to take issue with "How do I sound? You sound fine." That simply does not cut it when discussing a commercial LMR user's installation. The fact is that when the FCC decided that it was NOT necessary to have person with a First Phone license adjust/program your radios they transferred the responsibilty to the individual who decides personally to take on the responsibility. There is no way to properly set up an analog FM transmitter without knowing the deviation of the signal,to mention only one of several parameters, and for that you need a service monitor. The OP has a large installation and a large responsibility and prudence would require that whatever LMR setup is installed it be done properly.

[cabletech]

cbanzet comtact me at cabletech03@hotmail.com. I think I can help put your mind at ease.

[davidzimmerman]

wow so many people here attacking this guy with a good question.
hands off to the ones helping him with out pounding him into the ground.
i use to work for a Motorola shop and many of our departments did their own programing and always asked me for help i would always help them out.

[gtaman]

Originally Posted by davidzimmerman

wow so many people here attacking this guy with a good question.
hands off to the ones helping him with out pounding him into the ground.
i use to work for a Motorola shop and many of our departments did their own programing and always asked me for help i would always help them out.

Seriously people need to stop. These post would scare me away from radio. I would go to Nextel instead. Currently I use mototrbo with self programming and no service moniter all eBay radios.

[cbanzet]

Thanks again everyone for your replies. I'm probably still on "posting probation", so this response will be delayed. (I think this post will get me off.)

I definitely did not mean to start a flame war. I did say I wanted to do it right, but for me that would exclude the service monitor and "fancy stuff". I am content with making a "best effort" to do things legally and right. I am in an area that is fairly sparsely populated so even if my own programming left my radios with "anomalies" they're not going to cause any problems. My intention is very similar to what gtaman is doing.

However, I DEFINITELY appreciate EVERYONE'S willingness to share their expertise with a newbie, even if I don't incorporate all suggestions. What a great forum with such helpful members.

As I alluded to in my second post, I would be happily forego the headache of doing it myself if I could find a reliable radio service vendor. I can probably hand off my anomolies to my unreliable vendors, and still have a stable full of working radios.