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Motorola Forum For general discussion of Motorola land mobile radio equipment and their trunking technologies.

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Old 04-21-2013, 4:22 PM
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Default Are XTS 2500's out dated

Hello

I'm interested in possibly purchasing an XTS 2500 for public safety use. I like the ability to program conventional personalities on the go and the enhanced audio versus the HT1250 I have now.

My question is although the APX series is a bit too pricey for me at this point is it the better way to go versus the XTS. (My area uses analog 12.5 narrow band no trunking). I'm upgrading really just because its a hobby of mine.

I see that the APX can go up to 6.25 efficiency. Will that be something federally mandated in the near future? I see that motorola considers the XTS P25 ready but only currently goes to 12.5 efficiency. Will this shift make the radio useless like many of the HT1000's

When will the XTS series be discontinued?
Thanks.

Last edited by Mpanella; 04-21-2013 at 4:25 PM..
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Old 04-21-2013, 5:01 PM
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The XTS2500 is definetly NOT out of date! They are like the XTS5000 with similar capabilites, but the 2500 is a bit smaller in size. I can't predict when the XTS2500 will be discontinued, but I think you woudl satisfied with it, perfect for your situation. The APX radio is Motorola's flagship radio for Public Safety. In my opinion, an APX would not be neccessary for the radio system your department currently uses, an XTS would be fine, and plus the XTS also has digital capabilites. Unless your department is going to upgrade to an all P25 system in the future, and APX isn't the best option, an XTS2500 would suffice for the current system and even possibly an upgrade. I highly doubt the FCC is going to mandate 6.25 anytime in the near future. The shift will not make the XTS useless whatsoever.
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Old 04-21-2013, 5:35 PM
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The XTS2500 is still a current production model but will be going away soon. How soon is yet to be announced but factory support will continue for at least 5 years beyond when they actually discontinue them.

They are great radios but so are the APXs. Front panel programming (FPP, that you seem to want) is only legitimately available to federal government users but of course many, many are out there with FPP flashed into them. Just be aware that you might not be able to get support from Motorola if you buy a used radio and if you do, they'll remove those options and return a basic flash. Something to consider. You'll still need the CPS anyway to edit most parameters (button assignments, softkeys, etc).

Yes, both lines will do 12.5 kHz (modern narrowband) but the APXs will do 6.25 kHz (equivalent, actually) but only in TDMA digital. I seriously doubt that will be mandated any time soon (but probably will be many years down the road).

Regarding your HT1000 comment, FYI, all of them are capable of 12.5 kHz bandwidth and are still perfectly legal today. However, only the DN revision models are capable of the "splinter" frequencies but that's only an issue if you went to NB and changed channels.
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Last edited by KG4INW; 04-21-2013 at 7:03 PM.. Reason: typo
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Old 04-21-2013, 6:18 PM
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Based on your message and what little I know, if I was in your shoes I would keep the HT1250 unless you need to have P25 capability.

Front panel programming is a real sexy want, but rarely, if ever, a need. Heck, not many hams out there I know of hand program their amateur radios anymore, even though they are certainly capable.

If I had to pick between the XTS and APX largely based on wondering if the super narrow stuff will come into play anytime soon, I would stick with the XTS. Based on what I hear in industry circles, that is a long way out (many years if ever), and the sticker shock alone will likely push it out farther with protests/waiver requests if a date is ever announced.

Good luck.
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Old 04-21-2013, 6:41 PM
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My department just got the APX 6000 series and I like them a lot but in the near future can't see any use that they would provide aside from the styling for our system. We are currently completely analog.

Question for the experts. The 6.25 channel spacing would that be also on analog frequencies? In other words, if the Phase II came to be would that force all systems to implement some sort of digital trunking.

Last edited by Mpanella; 04-21-2013 at 6:46 PM..
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Old 04-21-2013, 7:07 PM
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6.25 is probably too difficult with analog so it will more than likely be digital. Whether or not it's trunked will be up to the user/agency.
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Old 04-21-2013, 8:28 PM
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Thanks for the replies.

As for release date are the XTS 2500 older than the HT1250's?
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Old 04-21-2013, 9:43 PM
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Default XTS 5000 & 2500

I have hear from several state systems administrations on MSWIN & LWIN that 2016 according to fcc all XTL & XTS 1500 2500 and 5000 will not work on the systems. Every thing is goin to apx 4000-7000

If you have any other question please e-mail me
parkfiredon@gmail.com
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Old 04-21-2013, 11:42 PM
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The HT-1250's are older than the XTS2500's, by a few years. The Professional series (HT/CDM) rolled in in 2nd quarter 1998 IIRC.

The XTS2500 platform (which includes the MT1500, PR1500 and XTS1500 and some other non-US versions) first showed up in 2003.

One note, the earlier versions of the XTS2500/1500/PR radios used a 4 MEG controller board, and are already on the end of support list last I checked, these haven't been made since 2006. These radios have limited memory so firmware updates past HOST 9 are not possible.

Most of them can be identified (in addition to the model number ending in AN versus BN) by the finger grooves in the side of the housing and the rubber PTT button (as opposed to the later BN radios with plastic PTT paddles).

Of course there are many thrown together radios on brokenstolenradios.com that are a mish mash- so make sure when buying you ask the seller which hardware version the radio is. If it has anything higher than HOST ver 9, it IS an 8 MEG radio.

I personally like the form factor of these radios versus the 5000. No, they are not as durable or serviceable. Break a knob off the board and it's done- but I think they look better and are easier to tote for a daily driver.

as someone else said, the 8 MEG versions (BN) are still in production and support will be available for at least 5 years once the last one rolls off the line.

and they are MILES above the Pro series in RF performance.
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Old 04-24-2013, 9:33 PM
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I attended a Public Safety presentation by "M" a couple of weeks ago. They now have that series as their mid tier radios. I asked the very question of when will they discontinue manufacture. The response I received non-committal, but the insinuation was at least two to three years, maybe longer.

We have a large number of XTS2500's in service as does several of our partner agencies. They are a pretty darn good and durable radio from my experience.
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Old 04-25-2013, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mpanella View Post
Question for the experts. The 6.25 channel spacing would that be also on analog frequencies? In other words, if the Phase II came to be would that force all systems to implement some sort of digital trunking.
FCC requirements for phase II of the narrow banding are not finalized yet but it has already been stated that it will be 6.25 spacing in DIGITAL mode.

Until then, there are very few radios that have the 6.25 available and even those that do, are working in digital format.

Will just have to wait a couple of years and see what happens for the 'newer' narrow banding rule.
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Old 04-25-2013, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by car5le View Post
I attended a Public Safety presentation by "M" a couple of weeks ago. They now have that series as their mid tier radios. I asked the very question of when will they discontinue manufacture. The response I received non-committal, but the insinuation was at least two to three years, maybe longer.

We have a large number of XTS2500's in service as does several of our partner agencies. They are a pretty darn good and durable radio from my experience.
WHile I was scanned the discontinued products that Motorola puts out on MOL, I noticed that the XTL5K consolette is there with a 2017 cancellation date. If that has any bearing on the portable & mobile products, we have a lot of time left.

Like you we have a lot in service as well in addition to a large amout of MT1500's in general gvt that we just never see come back from the field except for a bad battery or broken antenna from time to time.
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Old 04-25-2013, 1:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTS2000des View Post
One note, the earlier versions of the XTS2500/1500/PR radios used a 4 MEG controller board, and are already on the end of support list last I checked, these haven't been made since 2006. These radios have limited memory so firmware updates past HOST 9 are not possible.

Most of them can be identified (in addition to the model number ending in AN versus BN) by the finger grooves in the side of the housing and the rubber PTT button (as opposed to the later BN radios with plastic PTT paddles).
We've had some ANs come back from the depot in new cases but still with their AN controller - and vice versa, the old-style case but internally a BN. Only way to be sure is to power it up and put it into self-test or for the no-display models, read it with CPS.

This was a real issue when we were running around flash-upgrading them as we kept finding radios that were born as ANs, now BNs. For those not familiar, this does matter.
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