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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 02-09-2014, 8:53 PM
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Default CPS software?

I called Motorola and attempted to do the right thing. I wanted to purchase the software from them and be legal about it. I know understand why some people choose to go the other way. First I tried to create an account and to fill out all the needed information. When that wouldn't work, I called and talked to a human. She was not so nice...

So, my question for you guys is...
For all of you guys that have this software, how did you get it? I am on a fire department and wanted to buy it so that I could learn how to do the radios since our "radio guy" is somewhat of a >>>>>>>. I was told that if I listed the department on the information, that they would own the software.

Anyone have any suggestions on how I should move on at this point?
Thanks
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Old 02-09-2014, 9:00 PM
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What model radios are you talking about here?

Also, when you say...
Quote:
First I tried to create an account and to fill out all the needed information. When that wouldn't work,
.... what the hell does that mean? You can't just fill out a form online and be done with it. There is a process which is outlined on MOL and it must be followed.

I would also be a bit concerned about what you mean when you say "learn how to do the radios" but that's none of my business. If it were me, I'd be talking to my BC if we weren't getting what we needed from the "radio guy".
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Old 02-09-2014, 9:36 PM
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I have a few ht1250's.
The information page to create an account, once I created the account I attempted to log in. It let me try 2 times then told me that my account was locked and I need to contact a local admin to unlock my account.

The department radio guy is just very difficult to deal. I was wanting to "learn" how to program my radios so I can just bypass him. I'd like to learn, so that I dont have to keep asking other to do things for me.
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Old 02-09-2014, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by KY_FF_EMT View Post
...When that wouldn't work, I called and talked to a human. She was not so nice...
That's highly unusual. The MOL people have always been as nice as pie to me. What was it you said to her that elicited a not-so-nice response?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KY_FF_EMT View Post
So, my question for you guys is...
For all of you guys that have this software, how did you get it?
It depends. For work purposes, our purchasing agent buys the subscription for the software we require. We then just download it from the MOL site.

For my ham projects working with obsolete radios that are NLA and unsupported, there is a secret network of technical people who will get you what you need. But you have to suffer through the initiation process, and it can take years. Few outsiders make the grade, or even survive the ordeal.

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Originally Posted by KY_FF_EMT View Post
I am on a fire department and wanted to buy it so that I could learn how to do the radios since our "radio guy" is somewhat of a >>>>>>>.
So... um. Are you authorized by the department to purchase software on their behalf? If not, and you're trying to get past the "radio guy", then no wonder he's being a jerk. "Radio guys" are not known for their patience or magnanimity when dealing with rogue firemen trying to bypass normal procurement channels, and get company frequencies programmed onto personally owned radios. Just saying...

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Originally Posted by KY_FF_EMT View Post
I was told that if I listed the department on the information, that they would own the software.
This is correct. Is that a problem?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KY_FF_EMT View Post
Anyone have any suggestions on how I should move on at this point?
1. Get your ham ticket, and tell the MOL folks you're programming amateur frequencies in the radios. That way, when you sound like you don't know what you're doing, there will be a plausible reason, as opposed to representing a fire department, and sounding like you don't know what you're doing.

2. Cozy up to "radio guy", make your peace with him, and buy him pizza and beer in return for programming your radios. If he's not the pizza and beer type, a bottle of Seavey Cabernet Sauvignon, oh, 2002 was a good year, will do the trick. It'll cost you around $100/bottle, which is a bargain when you're trying to soften up a "radio guy".

3. Crack into the secret technical persons network, and figure out where the infamous Russian websites are, and just download whatever the heck you want. Make sure your anti-virus and anti-malware software is up to date. There are two in particular that I've yet to have fail me when I'm looking around for something otherwise impossible to find.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KY_FF_EMT View Post
I have a few ht1250's.
The information page to create an account, once I created the account I attempted to log in. It let me try 2 times then told me that my account was locked and I need to contact a local admin to unlock my account.
I've heard of people having problems, but I just don't understand why. Did you actually read and follow the instructions on how to sign up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KY_FF_EMT View Post
The department radio guy is just very difficult to deal. I was wanting to "learn" how to program my radios so I can just bypass him.
You keep mentioning this... is it just me, or does anyone else think that's the root of your problem? The "radio guy" is probably just protecting his livelyhood, and protecting the department from what he feels may be a rogue fireman trying to bypass the process - oh, wait... You ARE trying to bypass the process, you just said so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KY_FF_EMT View Post
I'd like to learn, so that I dont have to keep asking other to do things for me.
That's an admirable goal, stated just that way. In a professional environment, however, when it comes to things like radio programming, it's best to go with the established accepted processes, unless you are authorized to change them. When trying to bypass the process, expect the processors to dig their heels in and resist. Or worse.

You want to learn the right way? Get your ham ticket, practice on your radios on ham frequencies, and have a blast learning. Maybe, at some point, they'll eventually let you program department radios, but in the meantime, I'm on the "radio guy's" side... keep your mitts off the damned radios. I, for one, get awful damned tired of firemen monkey effing with the radios.

Last edited by zz0468; 02-09-2014 at 10:44 PM..
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Old 02-09-2014, 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted by zz0468 View Post
You keep mentioning this... is it just me, or does anyone else think that's the root of your problem? The "radio guy" is probably just protecting his livelyhood, and protecting the department from what he feels may be a rogue fireman trying to bypass the process - oh, wait... You ARE trying to bypass the process, you just said so.
I don't know what it is about RR, but is it just me or are there quite a few rogue radio folks these days? Think for a minute, that what the OP is wanting to do is circumvent the authority of others, and disregard the chain of command. Throw out ICS. Just do it "my way" because I "know better".

These rogues do not fathom the tremendous "L" word: liability. There are reasons aside from just having on on staff "radio guy" to do programming, one of them is liability. The agency wants a name and a face to hold accountable when something goes wrong. Every radio or part that he/she touches becomes his/her responsibility. It is a big part of what he/she gets a paycheck for.

These people are territorial for a reason. They are the ones who get called into courtrooms when, God forbid, something tragic happens. A "sentinel event" where I work is what it is called. These are the people who's records gets turned upside down and they get put in the hot seat.

This isn't just programming radios, there is a process, training, certifications and experience needed, along with tremendous responsibility. Fire ground radios are what you rely on for your life. They are not to be toyed with by untrained people. Period. They require more than just some pirated software and Ebay program cables to be certified as fit for life safety duty.

They should be regarded as serious as your breathing apparatus, your hoses, your turnout gear. It needs to be handled and regularly PM'ed not just for programming, but proper RF performance. The physical stresses placed on the radios from being exposed to extreme heat, water and physical shocks of the rough handling require them to be taken apart and inspected for water/debris ingress, damage to chassis, and housings. Seals need to be replaced. Water tightness need to be checked. All of this require specialized tools and training.

Why?

Well, when a radio you programmed or touched fails and someone dies, do you want to be the one in the defendant's chair?

Do it right or don't do it all. If you have someone at your agency, let them take all the liability. Otherwise you are on your own. Go outside your scope of authority and find out what it means to be a lonely man.
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Old 02-10-2014, 12:46 AM
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Originally Posted by MTS2000des View Post
I don't know what it is about RR, but is it just me or are there quite a few rogue radio folks these days? Think for a minute, that what the OP is wanting to do is circumvent the authority of others, and disregard the chain of command. Throw out ICS. Just do it "my way" because I "know better".

These rogues do not fathom the tremendous "L" word: liability. There are reasons aside from just having on on staff "radio guy" to do programming, one of them is liability. The agency wants a name and a face to hold accountable when something goes wrong. Every radio or part that he/she touches becomes his/her responsibility. It is a big part of what he/she gets a paycheck for.

These people are territorial for a reason. They are the ones who get called into courtrooms when, God forbid, something tragic happens. A "sentinel event" where I work is what it is called. These are the people who's records gets turned upside down and they get put in the hot seat.

This isn't just programming radios, there is a process, training, certifications and experience needed, along with tremendous responsibility. Fire ground radios are what you rely on for your life. They are not to be toyed with by untrained people. Period. They require more than just some pirated software and Ebay program cables to be certified as fit for life safety duty.

They should be regarded as serious as your breathing apparatus, your hoses, your turnout gear. It needs to be handled and regularly PM'ed not just for programming, but proper RF performance. The physical stresses placed on the radios from being exposed to extreme heat, water and physical shocks of the rough handling require them to be taken apart and inspected for water/debris ingress, damage to chassis, and housings. Seals need to be replaced. Water tightness need to be checked. All of this require specialized tools and training.

Why?

Well, when a radio you programmed or touched fails and someone dies, do you want to be the one in the defendant's chair?

Do it right or don't do it all. If you have someone at your agency, let them take all the liability. Otherwise you are on your own. Go outside your scope of authority and find out what it means to be a lonely man.
This would be good advise if you knew or bothered to ask questions. Whats the old saying about when you assume?
The radios that I have are not PUBLIC SAFETY RADIOS! I have spoke to the owner (or believed to own) of the frequency that I plan on transmitting on and and I do have permission to do so. The reason, I have bought my own unit is that they do not have enough radios so that everyone can have one. We have grown quicker that the budget to add more radios.
I had asked my fire department's radio guy to program them for me. He and I have not been able to come to a deal for him to do so since the department owns the software and he is just the latest person to be in charge of using it. He is asking me to pay him for him to do so... This is the reason that I want to by pass him.

I guess most of you assume that since my id is what it is that I am just using it for public safety. This is not the case.
Thanks for the help,
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Old 02-10-2014, 12:59 AM
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I came here to ask the community of radio people who either do this for a living or as a hobby questions of how to do things right. I am not the person that is looking for the quick answer, or the back door the system. I could very easily go to the web and look for the software like someone else mentioned and buy a eBay cable. If that was what I was going to do, I wouldn't have came here...
Then I get an lecture from MTS2000des on fire ground tactics. If I want information of what to do on the fire ground, I'll go to a firefighting forum. I'm not some green rookie that is looking to be a 3/20 guy. (three years on the department, twenty years of service) I have learned may thing from the fire service, most of them from older firefighters. I have learned to ask questions, or advice. Just FYI, the best thing a old firefighter can teach a new firefighter, is how to be a old firefighter... But thanks for your concern... If I have question on how to flip a burger at McDonald's, I'll come find you...
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Old 02-10-2014, 1:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KY_FF_EMT View Post
I came here to ask the community of radio people who either do this for a living or as a hobby questions of how to do things right. I am not the person that is looking for the quick answer, or the back door the system. I could very easily go to the web and look for the software like someone else mentioned and buy a eBay cable. If that was what I was going to do, I wouldn't have came here...
Then I get an lecture from MTS2000des on fire ground tactics. If I want information of what to do on the fire ground, I'll go to a firefighting forum. I'm not some green rookie that is looking to be a 3/20 guy. (three years on the department, twenty years of service) I have learned may thing from the fire service, most of them from older firefighters. I have learned to ask questions, or advice. Just FYI, the best thing a old firefighter can teach a new firefighter, is how to be a old firefighter... But thanks for your concern... If I have question on how to flip a burger at McDonald's, I'll come find you...
Unfortunately many people on these forums are very negative when it comes to people programing their own motorola equipment, while many of these same people do it themselves... go figure. I do not have the answer you seek. I have programed the XTS 3000 & 2500. Both use different CPS programs (though very similar). I am sure the one for your radio will also be different. I can tell you that programing conventional frequencies (which it sounds like you are doing?) is relatively easy. Just make sure you get all your info and zones in correctly and you should be fine. Since you are trying to do this on the level, I would urge you to give Motorola another shot. You will likely get a different person who might be more willing to help.
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Old 02-10-2014, 1:53 AM
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Originally Posted by KY_FF_EMT View Post
The department radio guy is just very difficult to deal. I was wanting to "learn" how to program my radios so I can just bypass him. I'd like to learn, so that I dont have to keep asking other to do things for me.
Well, from your own words, you go on a public forum asking to bypass the "department radio guy".

What did you expect?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KY_FF_EMT View Post
This would be good advise if you knew or bothered to ask questions. Whats the old saying about when you assume?
The radios that I have are not PUBLIC SAFETY RADIOS!
Hmm..so why did you involve your "department" at all? Logical conclusion, "KY_FF_EMT"

Quote:
Originally Posted by KY_FF_EMT View Post
. The reason, I have bought my own unit is that they do not have enough radios so that everyone can have one. We have grown quicker that the budget to add more radios.
I had asked my fire department's radio guy to program them for me. He and I have not been able to come to a deal for him to do so since the department owns the software and he is just the latest person to be in charge of using it. He is asking me to pay him for him to do so... This is the reason that I want to by pass him.
Now you're talking in circles. So are these for firefighting use or personal use?

Personal use means they have to be licensed. Part 90 or otherwise. After all, you did say "I want to do this right" correct?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KY_FF_EMT View Post
I guess most of you assume that since my id is what it is that I am just using it for public safety. This is not the case.
Thanks for the help,
Uhm, yeah, that and your constant mention of your department involvement, and the "radio guy" who you admit to want to "bypass" so it is logical that you, like hundreds of other folks, just want to "put some extra radios on our system" without the "hassle" of dealing with your "radio guy".

Quote:
Originally Posted by KY_FF_EMT View Post
Then I get an lecture from MTS2000des on fire ground tactics. If I want information of what to do on the fire ground, I'll go to a firefighting forum.
No, I was merely offering you friendly advice. Sounds like you don't like the answer because I was dead on about everything I said. As someone else says, you know how right you are by the number of insults you receive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KY_FF_EMT View Post
I'm not some green rookie that is looking to be a 3/20 guy. (three years on the department, twenty years of service) I have learned may thing from the fire service, most of them from older firefighters. I have learned to ask questions, or advice. Just FYI, the best thing a old firefighter can teach a new firefighter, is how to be a old firefighter... But thanks for your concern... If I have question on how to flip a burger at McDonald's, I'll come find you...
So when you are given the advice, don't bite someone's head off for trying to teach you something you should already know.

You came here asking for advice. You got it.

Would you like fries with that?
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Old 02-10-2014, 9:21 AM
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Anyone have any suggestions on how I should move on at this point?
Thanks
I know of very few hobbiests who pay for CPS although I do know of a few who do go through the process and pay the price. The rest, myself included, either have others program their radios for them (ask MTS2000DES all about that) or it is very common to obtain pirated copies which sometimes end up on ebay or warez sites.

There. I said it.

If you don't like the inconvenience or expense of having to do that, then what the rest of us do is we use other brands of radios where if a copy of the software isn't given to you by the dealer you buy the radio from for free by asking nicely and using a puppy dog face, you can buy a legal copy from a dealer for under $80 and the cables are much more reasonably priced and don't change with every new model.

If you want the batwings on your radio, there are some barriers to entry. But just think.... once you do, you'll have a MOTOROLA!
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Old 02-10-2014, 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by KY_FF_EMT View Post
This would be good advise if you knew or bothered to ask questions. Whats the old saying about when you assume?
The radios that I have are not PUBLIC SAFETY RADIOS!
Bull*cough*it. You came on here stating that you were with a fire department trying to get around the "radio guy". Facing that incontrovertible fact, doesn't it seem a bit silly to expect us "radio guys" to help?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KY_FF_EMT View Post
I have spoke to the owner (or believed to own) of the frequency that I plan on transmitting on and and I do have permission to do so.
I'm calling BS on this, too. Going to the "owner of the frequency" and getting "permission" isn't how it works.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KY_FF_EMT View Post
The reason, I have bought my own unit is that they do not have enough radios so that everyone can have one. We have grown quicker that the budget to add more radios.
The fire department, you mean? Yes... we thought so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KY_FF_EMT View Post
I had asked my fire department's radio guy to program them for me. He and I have not been able to come to a deal for him to do so since the department owns the software and he is just the latest person to be in charge of using it. He is asking me to pay him for him to do so... This is the reason that I want to by pass him.
So, you're asking a guy to subvert the rules for nothing in return, and you're calling HIM a jerk? Well... I just don't know what to say about that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KY_FF_EMT View Post
I guess most of you assume that since my id is what it is that I am just using it for public safety. This is not the case.
Thanks for the help,
You have as much as said so. You told MOL it was for the fire department, and your first post in this thread says...

Quote:
Originally Posted by KY_FF_EMT View Post
... I am on a fire department and wanted to buy it so that I could learn how to do the radios since our "radio guy" is somewhat of a >>>>>>>.
So, we didn't assume you're just a fireman trying to subvert the system and get on with your own radio... YOU CAME OUT AND TOLD US THAT IN THE BEGINNING.

The suggestions I gave you in my first post to you are as good as you're gonna get. I'd take it and run with it, if I were you. You pissed off the people you want to help you by doing exactly the thing that pisses those people off the most.

Maybe you can learn from it?
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Old 02-12-2014, 3:38 AM
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What ^^^^^ they said.
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Old 02-12-2014, 12:25 PM
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Okay so why do you need CPS from Motorola?

Because in your post on December 4, 2012 you stated that "We both have the software to program the radios so that isn't a problem".

Sounds like you are up to no good, and can not even keep track of your lies.

Goodluck!

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Old 02-17-2014, 5:10 PM
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Okay so why do you need CPS from Motorola?

Because in your post on December 4, 2012 you stated that "We both have the software to program the radios so that isn't a problem".

Sounds like you are up to no good, and can not even keep track of your lies.

Goodluck!

At one time, I had a very old copy of the software on an old laptop. Yes it was an ebay copy. I work a private security job as a part time job, and the owner of the company is not interested in purchasing any more units. As far as I know, he is the owner of the freq that we use on the job and he has said that If we buy our own, we can use them. No PUBLIC SAFETY/LAW ENFORCEMENT/FIRE DEPARTMENT freqs will be used... I have since upgraded my laptop and i no longer have said copy of the CPS. Have you ever upgraded equipment... I did and lost a bunch of old programs hince the question about obtaining it the correct way. As far as the "radio guy", our old "radio guy", had in the past programmed my radio's for me and had even helped me program them for myself. The person who took over when he (old radio guy) took another job is not willing to program them for me with out charging me. Since the FD owns the software, he is not the one to be paid. If anyone should get the money, it would be the FD.

When I was working part-time for my last FD, I was the one who worked with our local Motorola dealer, and was interested in having that department purchase a copy of the CPS instead of paying them to do basic programming. I was asked to do the research and the leg work to make it happen. So I applied, I had took another job doing security for more money before we bought the software. That is way, I was asking can I just buy it for myself.
No lie to remember, just didnt feel the need to go into useless information to muddy the waters

Sorry for asking questions that upset some of you, but I thought that was what this whole thing was for...

For all of you that want to help and continue to provide information, I thank you. All others can kiss my Fat Irish ***...
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Old 02-17-2014, 5:48 PM
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Originally Posted by KY_FF_EMT View Post
At one time, I had a very old copy of the software on an old laptop. Yes it was an ebay copy. I work a private security job as a part time job, and the owner of the company is not interested in purchasing any more units. As far as I know, he is the owner of the freq that we use on the job and he has said that If we buy our own, we can use them. No PUBLIC SAFETY/LAW ENFORCEMENT/FIRE DEPARTMENT freqs will be used... I have since upgraded my laptop and i no longer have said copy of the CPS. Have you ever upgraded equipment... I did and lost a bunch of old programs hince the question about obtaining it the correct way. As far as the "radio guy", our old "radio guy", had in the past programmed my radio's for me and had even helped me program them for myself. The person who took over when he (old radio guy) took another job is not willing to program them for me with out charging me. Since the FD owns the software, he is not the one to be paid. If anyone should get the money, it would be the FD.

When I was working part-time for my last FD, I was the one who worked with our local Motorola dealer, and was interested in having that department purchase a copy of the CPS instead of paying them to do basic programming. I was asked to do the research and the leg work to make it happen. So I applied, I had took another job doing security for more money before we bought the software. That is way, I was asking can I just buy it for myself.
No lie to remember, just didnt feel the need to go into useless information to muddy the waters

Sorry for asking questions that upset some of you, but I thought that was what this whole thing was for...

For all of you that want to help and continue to provide information, I thank you. All others can kiss my Fat Irish ***...
No one "owns" the frequencies. Licenses to operate on a specific frequency is provided by the FCC the form of a grant. In that license grant, that fall under specific rules such as Part 90 for land mobile radio, the licensee is totally responsible for those who are licensed to both their frequencies and any other frequencies by agreement or separate authority.

If you are no longer employed by the licensed entity then there is no requirement for you to acquire the software except for possible personal usage to program frequencies that you are not authorized for.

Last edited by KS4VT; 02-17-2014 at 7:24 PM..
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Old 02-17-2014, 6:12 PM
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OK, so wrong terminology, MY CURRENT EMPLOYER is the licence holder not "owner" for the frequency that I/we will be using.

My apologizes.

Thank you KS4VT for taking the time to explain it.
So, with that being said, I can only purchase the CPS if my current employer ie the licence holder is listed on the application to purchase, and they will be the owner of said software. I will talk to him the next time I work there.

Again, thank you for taking the time to explain this without being condescending to a newbie...
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Old 02-17-2014, 7:32 PM
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Kentucky:

Sorry you had a problem with buying from Motorola.
It always interest me when people talk here about having problems buying radio software from Motorola.
Through the years, I have bought the software for GP300's, P1225's, the Pro Software (HT750, CDM1250) and currently have a 3 year subscription for the Trbo software.

In each instance, I simply called Motorola's toll free number, said what I needed, gave them a charge card number, and got the software. I have never been asked by Motorola "What do you want it for" or "Are you authorized to use it?"

Quite frankly, the only time you'll ever hear "Are you authorized to program radios" or "Are you licensed for the frequency you will be transmitting on" or "Do you have a legitimate need for that software" will be here on Radio Reference. It's true. Like others have noted, and as you will notice as you frequent this board, there are many users who feel their sole purpose is to be an online lawyer.

Ask how to modify your ham handheld to talk on your "work" frequencies?
You'll get a dozen replies telling you it's illegal, immoral, and will stunt your growth before one person just tells you how to do it.

Wanting to know how to go about putting up a repeater?
The first dozen replies will be legality queries.
It's not what you asked, but that's what you get.

Never used to be like that on here.

Last edited by Wyandotte; 02-17-2014 at 7:41 PM..
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 02-17-2014, 8:04 PM
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The reason for all the questions and legal opinion is because the professional and serious radio hobbyists try to keep the people who do not have the reason or knowledge off systems and frequencies that they do not belong on. Because they can and will interfere with legitimate users and public safety.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 02-17-2014, 11:01 PM
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If you really want this software for the right reasons than I more than support you. Most of the people on here, myself included, who have negative comments regarding CPS requests have had just one too many bad experiences. As the administrator of a medium-sized system, nothing in the world annoys me more than personnel attempting to modify the equipment that I have issued them. On the same note attempting, to use their own equipment on a system that may not have been designed for such uses.

Now as far as getting CPS from Motorola. I have two accounts; one for personal use and one for work. For my personal account, I created an account online and within a few days was contacted by a Motorola rep to verify some information. (Use, location, shipping info) Once my (Personal) account was created I went into -> Resource Center -> Software Support and signed the "General Software License Agreement.

Once you sign this it will take about a week or two, depending on MOL order load, and then you will be able to search for CPS in your catalog. Search: HVN9025AB and for the MSRP of 265.00 a 3-year subscription will be all yours!

Enjoy!
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