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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 07-09-2018, 10:57 PM
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Default What Are Typical Costs Involved w/ a Business Radio System?

Say a small number of user, <10 on an APX type system?
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Old 07-10-2018, 6:13 AM
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You have not listed near enough information. Your little project could run you upwards of $40,000.00 and get minimum results in range.
1. APX Walkies new used $1000 each or more used.
2. Are you wanting to buy or rent repeater space?
3. What is the range you are expecting?
4. Analog or P25?
5. 180 foot Rohn 25 tower $4000.00 plus the cost of putting it up. This will give you 20 miles or so.
6. 7/8 hardline 200 foot $1000.00
7. DB420 antenna $1500.00 to $2000.00 depending on vendor.
8. Quality duplexers $1500.00 or more.
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Old 07-10-2018, 7:35 AM
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Or you could go to a radio provider, & rent radios, & repeater time, & pay for it like a cell phone w/o having to get licenses, or buying equipment.
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Old 07-10-2018, 7:49 AM
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Default Buisness frequency $

also....

9- Frequency coordination and licensing, $500-2000
10- Permits/fees to build tower $500-1000+
11- Engineering review of tower (may be required for permit) $1000-2000+
12- Required liability Ins for tower location $ ????
13- Repeater (radio, p/s, etc) $2000-7000 (used/new)
14- Shop time to setup/align repeater/duplexer $200-500
15- Install of all of this on site $ ????
16- Maintenance (annual site check, tower inspection, radio system checks & repairs, etc.)
17- Lightning mitigation stuff
18- other stuff
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Old 07-10-2018, 8:27 AM
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I can only give you an idea based on what I spent 4 years ago for TRBO system. The orignal system installed included an XPR8400 VHF Repeater with dynamic mixed mode enabled, 5 CM200D's and 5 CP200D's all with digital entitlement, a 20 foot fiberglass antenna, duplexer and all cabling and connectors installed on a pre existing 140 foot tower. FCC coordination and licensing was also includued. The grand total was just shy of $14,000.00.
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Old 07-10-2018, 8:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clbsquared View Post
I can only give you an idea based on what I spent 4 years ago for TRBO system. The orignal system installed included an XPR8400 VHF Repeater with dynamic mixed mode enabled, 5 CM200D's and 5 CP200D's all with digital entitlement, a 20 foot fiberglass antenna, duplexer and all cabling and connectors installed on a pre existing 140 foot tower. FCC coordination and licensing was also includued. The grand total was just shy of $14,000.00.
Thanks for this info and all the other replies. Good questions posted.

I came here just to get an idea if it was even something I wanted to consider before finding/talking to an actual service provider. We have two manufacturing facilities, located approximately 11 miles away (line of sight). I wanted to see if radios were a realistic option to consider from a technical/practice and costing standpoint.
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Old 07-10-2018, 2:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MFG_rrt View Post
Say a small number of user, <10 on an APX type system?
If cost is a concern, there's two things you can do to save money.

1. Don't use APX radios. They are a public safety grade radio and overkill for anything a business would be doing. Yes, even security guards. You can get perfectly suitable radios for $300 and up.

2. Don't use Motorola. Anytime you use Mother M, add a zero on to the cost. Partly sarcastic, partly true. There are vendors that are just as good and won't cost as much.

And it depends entirely what you mean by "system". You need to clarify and fill in a lot of details about exactly what you are looking for.
If that's the only info you can provide, you are looking at anywhere from $4,000 to $1 million+, depending on what sort of coverage and features you want.
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Old 07-10-2018, 9:06 PM
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Originally Posted by mmckenna View Post
If cost is a concern, there's two things you can do to save money.

1. Don't use APX radios. They are a public safety grade radio and overkill for anything a business would be doing. Yes, even security guards. You can get perfectly suitable radios for $300 and up.

2. Don't use Motorola. Anytime you use Mother M, add a zero on to the cost. Partly sarcastic, partly true. There are vendors that are just as good and won't cost as much.

And it depends entirely what you mean by "system". You need to clarify and fill in a lot of details about exactly what you are looking for.
If that's the only info you can provide, you are looking at anywhere from $4,000 to $1 million+, depending on what sort of coverage and features you want.
Thanks for the reply. I had already replied to the thread before you posted, but since I'm a new member my posts are moderated and therefore won't post immediately.

1. Noted

2. Noted

3. So I would just be looking to communicate between sites. As I said, the distance is approximately 11 miles between both sites.
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Old 07-11-2018, 12:07 AM
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Originally Posted by MFG_rrt View Post
3. So I would just be looking to communicate between sites. As I said, the distance is approximately 11 miles between both sites.
Well, depends.
Do you need coverage long the route between both sites?
Or do you need coverage around Site A and coverage around Site B?

There's some pretty neat stuff you can do with internet linking. You could have a base radio at each site connected over your data network. That would permit talking between sites while utilizing the internet connection you probably already have. You can do that using basic analog only radios.

If you need coverage all along the 11 miles as well as at each site, this will be a challenge. Repeaters would be needed, and the number and location will depend entirely on the topography of your area.
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Old 07-11-2018, 8:10 AM
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IP Site Connect. One SLR5700 repeater at each location with duplexer and antenna. CP200d subscribers. Simple, done!
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Old 07-11-2018, 8:30 AM
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Originally Posted by mmckenna View Post
Well, depends.
Do you need coverage long the route between both sites?
Or do you need coverage around Site A and coverage around Site B?

There's some pretty neat stuff you can do with internet linking. You could have a base radio at each site connected over your data network. That would permit talking between sites while utilizing the internet connection you probably already have. You can do that using basic analog only radios.

If you need coverage all along the 11 miles as well as at each site, this will be a challenge. Repeaters would be needed, and the number and location will depend entirely on the topography of your area.
Thanks for the information.

Both locations are fairly small, one is approximately 10,000sqft building, the other is approximately 30,000sqft building. So I don't think we would need anything special at each site for that site, only what's required to talk to the other site.

I'm assuming we could utilize 3 channels? One for each site, and a third for intra-site? How does that work?
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Old 07-11-2018, 8:51 AM
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Assuming you only need coverage around each site, it depends on how many "channels" you need at each location. If you only need one or 2 repeated channels, the IP Site Connect is the ticket. If you need 4 or more, the Capacity Plus Multi Site (aka Linked Capacity Plus). TT
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Old 07-11-2018, 9:16 AM
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Time slot 1 is linked as wide area so both repeaters will come up. Slot 2 is kept as local so it only stays at that site. No enhancement required on the repeaters, it's included. You don't need the IPSC enhancement in the radios since you don't need to auto roam.
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Old 07-11-2018, 12:00 PM
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N1GTL has done this before....... he is exactly right. I have put many of these in. Your costs will be repeaters (SLR5700 or SLR1000 if you feel adventurous), licensing, duplexes, cabling, mast, and antennas. If you mount the antennas and cabling inside the facility, then you won't have to worry about lightning protection. TT
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Old 07-11-2018, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N1GTL View Post
Time slot 1 is linked as wide area so both repeaters will come up. Slot 2 is kept as local so it only stays at that site. No enhancement required on the repeaters, it's included. You don't need the IPSC enhancement in the radios since you don't need to auto roam.
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N1GTL has done this before....... he is exactly right. I have put many of these in. Your costs will be repeaters (SLR5700 or SLR1000 if you feel adventurous), licensing, duplexes, cabling, mast, and antennas. If you mount the antennas and cabling inside the facility, then you won't have to worry about lightning protection. TT
Thanks. Any idea what this might cost, ballpark?
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Old 07-11-2018, 1:39 PM
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Cheap side -with DiY installations of repeaters & networking @ little under $5000 per repeater & a little under $500 per user for CP200d portable radios - so @ $14,000 +/-

High side, with professional install, setup, remote RDAC, full tilt networking setup and configuration - figure on doubling that. Professional side would probably try to up-sell you on a radio capable of IP site connect roaming also - giving seamless operation between sites to users that travel to/from both locations. XPR7550e radios have a list price over $1100 (and going up another $50+ come July 19th).
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Old 07-11-2018, 2:07 PM
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Default Multi site link

Can you just do this?

Site one:
two channel handhelds, channel one w/tone "a" for local, channel two w/ tone "b" for link to other site.
Single frequency (same at both sites)
IP link, simplex low power radio RX/TX tone B at both ends

Duplicated at site two

Local traffic all with channel one/ tone A
Switch to second channel" programmed w/ tone B. IP link repeats it to second site.

If someone needs to respond to both sites, just use a scanning radio to scan both channels

All analog, low cost radios, low power. I get the impression the radio to radio at local sites is OK,

Just thinking simpler may be more than adequate, no need for digital, repeaters, etc.

$.02
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Old 07-11-2018, 2:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by byndhlptom View Post
Can you just do this?

Site one:
two channel handhelds, channel one w/tone "a" for local, channel two w/ tone "b" for link to other site.
Single frequency (same at both sites)
IP link, simplex low power radio RX/TX tone B at both ends

Duplicated at site two

Local traffic all with channel one/ tone A
Switch to second channel" programmed w/ tone B. IP link repeats it to second site.

If someone needs to respond to both sites, just use a scanning radio to scan both channels

All analog, low cost radios, low power. I get the impression the radio to radio at local sites is OK,

Just thinking simpler may be more than adequate, no need for digital, repeaters, etc.

$.02
Yes. Digital isn't required to make this work. A basic analog radio would work fine. A low power mobile with a 12 volt supply and an analog - IP interface.
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Old 07-11-2018, 6:08 PM
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Yes. Digital isn't required to make this work. A basic analog radio would work fine. A low power mobile with a 12 volt supply and an analog - IP interface.
No, IPSC is digital, not analog. You cannot link two repeaters in analog mode.

There is no need to buy the EIDs for the CP200d's as all that really adds is roaming. If you have radios staying at a single site, they will not be roaming, thus, no need for an EID enhancement.

My job is to design and make things work. I do not get involved in pricing so I cannot advise you there. I can tell you that a 10 watt SLR1000 with a duplexer will cost you more than a 55 watt SLR5700 with a duplexer. If using the "mobile" duplexers, drop the power below 40 watts as that is all they are rated for. I seem to do these kinds of systems on a daily basis. I don't do physical installations, just the engineering, networking, staging and programming. This is about 4 hours of work in staging (with coffee breaks) and it'd be ready to deploy.
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Old 07-11-2018, 6:32 PM
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No, IPSC is digital, not analog. You cannot link two repeaters in analog mode.
Understood. I was talking about an external IP to 2 or 4 wire interface.
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