XTS 3000 for NORCOM dispatching?

[Kevin_CCR]

So I was thinking of buying an XTS 3000 but I am only familiar with ht1000s. Would it be possible to use this radio to listen to the NORCOM channels in the links provided? Also what does "T 22384", "3D1C", and "M" mean? Like I said I am completely new to trunking. Thanks Kevin.

 

[Will001]

You might want to post some links first...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Kevin_CCR]

Forgot the links
King County Scanner Frequencies (WA)
King County, WA/Fire - InterceptRadio.com Wiki

 

[Kevin_CCR]

You might want to post some links first...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I realized it right after I posted my bad

 

[Will001]

T=talkgroup, 3D1C=system ID, and M=Motorola system. Hope this helps, and hopefully some other folks on here know a little more about NORCOM than I do!

Cheers


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[mmckenna]

It's a Motorola Type 2 SmartZone analog system:
https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=604

A couple of things:
The radio will have a "flashcode", that will tell you what options the radio has and if it will support SmartZone trunking. If the flashcode doesn't support that, it's not going to work.

You didn't mention what band your XTS-3000 is. If it's not 800MHz, it's obviously not going to work.

There are also some tricks to making it work correctly and not interfering with their system. You should research Non-Affiliate Scan before you go much farther.

It's either going to take some trial and error on your part, or some outside assistance to make it work correctly. If you have not done it before, there can be some steep learning curves. Not impossible, but nothing like programming an HT1000.

Very important, no matter what any website tells you, Non. Affiliate. Scan. NAS. You do not want your radio to try and affiliate with their system. Legal issues will arise, and you can actually take resources on the trunked system away from the people that are supposed to be using the system.

If in any sort of doubt, get a scanner.

 

[RBMTS]

Kevin
I strongly suggest you not do it. Your are obviously not familiar with how to properly program a trunking radio due to the questions you ask. If you happen to do it incorrectly, you can end up causing problems for the actual users should you accidentally program a radio ID that is already assigned. Should you be incorrect with your programming and it is discovered on the system, you could have the radio stunned (bricked). The system is also complicated being that it is a "SmartZone" system. Stick with a scanner - it is much easier to program, will provide you more channels to scan, and is safer for everyone. As an actual user of the system for one of the local departments, I thank you.

 

[Kevin_CCR]

It's a Motorola Type 2 SmartZone analog system:
https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=604

A couple of things:
The radio will have a "flashcode", that will tell you what options the radio has and if it will support SmartZone trunking. If the flashcode doesn't support that, it's not going to work.

You didn't mention what band your XTS-3000 is. If it's not 800MHz, it's obviously not going to work.

There are also some tricks to making it work correctly and not interfering with their system. You should research Non-Affiliate Scan before you go much farther.

It's either going to take some trial and error on your part, or some outside assistance to make it work correctly. If you have not done it before, there can be some steep learning curves. Not impossible, but nothing like programming an HT1000.

Very important, no matter what any website tells you, Non. Affiliate. Scan. NAS. You do not want your radio to try and affiliate with their system. Legal issues will arise, and you can actually take resources on the trunked system away from the people that are supposed to be using the system.

If in any sort of doubt, get a scanner.

I was actually still looking. Would this one work? https://www.ebay.com/itm/Motorola-X...828512&hash=item3d7063a339:g:RUkAAOSwAWlaYxN4

I actually hadn't heard of NAS until now. Thank you very much for telling me about it!!

 

[Kevin_CCR]

Kevin
I strongly suggest you not do it. Your are obviously not familiar with how to properly program a trunking radio due to the questions you ask. If you happen to do it incorrectly, you can end up causing problems for the actual users should you accidentally program a radio ID that is already assigned. Should you be incorrect with your programming and it is discovered on the system, you could have the radio stunned (bricked). The system is also complicated being that it is a "SmartZone" system. Stick with a scanner - it is much easier to program, will provide you more channels to scan, and is safer for everyone. As an actual user of the system for one of the local departments, I thank you.

How much different is programming a scanner? And the reason I was going to go with an XTS 3000 is that it seems to be more affordable.

 

[PCTEK]

When purchasing a radio, please keep in mind that the FCC has ordered all public safety / goverment agency to vacate the UHF-T band by the year 2020. The UHF-T band has been sold off by the current FCC Chairman. While the FCC may extend another 2 year extension putting the vacate date out to 2022, it will eventually happen. The most likely place to relocate to is the 700MHz band in a P25 Phase II or other digital format. Keep that in mind when purchasing a two way radio.

 

[RBMTS]

How much different is programming a scanner? And the reason I was going to go with an XTS 3000 is that it seems to be more affordable.

The programming can very very complicated. First you are going to need specific Astro CPS software for whatever level the radio was using. Second thing you will need is the "System Key" for the King County system. The SK is private so you won't find it somewhere you can download it. Then you need to create the system, sites, zones, personalities, scan personalities, etc. The radio will need to have an ID. There are steps you'd need to take to make sure the radio does not affiliate. If it does, you can cause problems for other users on a talk group, or an individual user if you happen to take the same ID as they are using. With all that, you will only be limited to I believe 15 channels to scan (as that is all a scan list will hold). I could like more details but I think you get the jest of it.

Oh, and if you still decide to pull the trigger anyway, better make sure that the radio has the proper firmware version for rebanded systems. If it doesn't you've just thrown away a lot of money.

King County will be moving to a new Phase II system in another year or two anyway. Your XTS3000 will then be useless.

Again, save yourself the headaches and get a scanner.

 

[RBMTS]

Read this and learn:

https://forums.radioreference.com/m...ou-want-monitor-trunked-system-moto-read.html

 

[Kevin_CCR]

The programming can very very complicated. First you are going to need specific Astro CPS software for whatever level the radio was using. Second thing you will need is the "System Key" for the King County system. The SK is private so you won't find it somewhere you can download it. Then you need to create the system, sites, zones, personalities, scan personalities, etc. The radio will need to have an ID. There are steps you'd need to take to make sure the radio does not affiliate. If it does, you can cause problems for other users on a talk group, or an individual user if you happen to take the same ID as they are using. With all that, you will only be limited to I believe 15 channels to scan (as that is all a scan list will hold). I could like more details but I think you get the jest of it.

Oh, and if you still decide to pull the trigger anyway, better make sure that the radio has the proper firmware version for rebanded systems. If it doesn't you've just thrown away a lot of money.

King County will be moving to a new Phase II system in another year or two anyway. Your XTS3000 will then be useless.

Again, save yourself the headaches and get a scanner.

What scanner would you recommend?

 

[RBMTS]

I would suggest any of the current digital Phase II scanners from Uniden or Whistler. WSP is already P2 on the trunking systems. PSERN will be going to P2. Pierce County is P2.

Which specific scanner and whether to chose a mobile or handheld is a preference you'll have to decide.

 

[mmckenna]

I was actually still looking. Would this one work? https://www.ebay.com/itm/Motorola-X...828512&hash=item3d7063a339:g:RUkAAOSwAWlaYxN4

I actually hadn't heard of NAS until now. Thank you very much for telling me about it!!

Looks like it.

However, you need to be very cautious. The flashcode says "H38: SmartZone Systems Operation", which is what you want. You are putting a lot of faith in the seller knowing what all that stuff is, that the radio actually has the flashcode that's on the sticker (not a re-case) and it hasn't been boogered up by someone else.

One thing you might want to consider….
SmartZone analog systems are out of support, and while there are a lot of them still in use, they are likely not long for this world. I'm not sure what King County's plan is for their system, but I'd wouldn't be surprised if they have plans to upgrade to P25 sometime in the not too distant future. That'll make your radio pretty well useless.
And that's where a good P25 capable scanner will be a big benefit. As long as they don't go encrypted, you'll be good to go.
The other benefit to the scanner is that it'll cover more than just 800MHz. If this is your first radio, there really is a lot more stuff to listen to other than just 800MHz.

On the flip side, it's hard to beat the receiver performance of a commercial radio. Usually the scanners are a bit lacking in this area.

Scanners are MUCH easier to program. I run a trunked system at work, I used to have a SmartNet system, sort of like a single site SmartZone system. It's not easy or intuitive to program. Since the commercial/public safety radios have a LOT more features, they are a lot more complex. Like I said above, unless you have experience or at least some experienced help in programming one of these, you'd be better off with a scanner.

The risk of accidentally affiliating with the system is reason enough. Without going into the details, your radio accidentally affiliating with the system can have some dire consequences, not only for you, but the public safety professionals who's lives may depend on that radio system.

I'd strongly suggest the scanner. It'll be easier to program and a lot more flexible.

 

[Kevin_CCR]

Looks like it.

However, you need to be very cautious. The flashcode says "H38: SmartZone Systems Operation", which is what you want. You are putting a lot of faith in the seller knowing what all that stuff is, that the radio actually has the flashcode that's on the sticker (not a re-case) and it hasn't been boogered up by someone else.

One thing you might want to consider….
SmartZone analog systems are out of support, and while there are a lot of them still in use, they are likely not long for this world. I'm not sure what King County's plan is for their system, but I'd wouldn't be surprised if they have plans to upgrade to P25 sometime in the not too distant future. That'll make your radio pretty well useless.
And that's where a good P25 capable scanner will be a big benefit. As long as they don't go encrypted, you'll be good to go.
The other benefit to the scanner is that it'll cover more than just 800MHz. If this is your first radio, there really is a lot more stuff to listen to other than just 800MHz.

On the flip side, it's hard to beat the receiver performance of a commercial radio. Usually the scanners are a bit lacking in this area.

Scanners are MUCH easier to program. I run a trunked system at work, I used to have a SmartNet system, sort of like a single site SmartZone system. It's not easy or intuitive to program. Since the commercial/public safety radios have a LOT more features, they are a lot more complex. Like I said above, unless you have experience or at least some experienced help in programming one of these, you'd be better off with a scanner.

The risk of accidentally affiliating with the system is reason enough. Without going into the details, your radio accidentally affiliating with the system can have some dire consequences, not only for you, but the public safety professionals who's lives may depend on that radio system.

I'd strongly suggest the scanner. It'll be easier to program and a lot more flexible.

Is it possible to basically use the XTS as strictly a scanner? I assume not but it's worth it to ask.

 

[mmckenna]

Is it possible to basically use the XTS as strictly a scanner? I assume not but it's worth it to ask.

Yes. However, with a complex trunked system like that one, you may have a hard time with it.

The issue is the trunking. A scanner designed to receive trunking systems will be able to decode the control channel data stream and follow the individual talk groups. It does this because that is what it's built to do, all without affiliating with the system.

However, a radio like the XTS-3000 will only follow the talk group if you set it up as a trunked radio or with the non-affiliate scan. They are designed/intended to be a "real" subscriber on the trunked system. Things like Non-affiliate scan and trying to just scan the frequencies isn't easily done, because it's not what it's designed for.

In other words, simply setting up with frequencies and scanning them in conventional mode will jump around from talk group to talk group and make it very difficult/impossible to follow any traffic.

 

[Kevin_CCR]

Yes. However, with a complex trunked system like that one, you may have a hard time with it.

The issue is the trunking. A scanner designed to receive trunking systems will be able to decode the control channel data stream and follow the individual talk groups. It does this because that is what it's built to do, all without affiliating with the system.

However, a radio like the XTS-3000 will only follow the talk group if you set it up as a trunked radio or with the non-affiliate scan. They are designed/intended to be a "real" subscriber on the trunked system. Things like Non-affiliate scan and trying to just scan the frequencies isn't easily done, because it's not what it's designed for.

In other words, simply setting up with frequencies and scanning them in conventional mode will jump around from talk group to talk group and make it very difficult/impossible to follow any traffic.

So I'm assuming either way even if I do get it to work, it would be better to get a scanner?

 

[mmckenna]

So I'm assuming either way even if I do get it to work, it would be better to get a scanner?

It'll have a lot more flexibility, be easier to set up, and will support P25 when they decide to go that way.

A good commercial radio will have a better receiver, but it comes at the cost of flexibility.

 

[Kevin_CCR]

It'll have a lot more flexibility, be easier to set up, and will support P25 when they decide to go that way.

A good commercial radio will have a better receiver, but it comes at the cost of flexibility.

Sorry to backtrack a bit but if I were to only listen to dispatch and had NAS on, would I be a little safer or would I still run the same risk?