RadioReference on Facebook   RadioReference on Twitter   RadioReference Blog
 

Go Back   The RadioReference.com Forums > Commercial, Professional Radio and Personal Radio > Motorola Forum


Motorola Forum - For general discussion of Motorola land mobile radio equipment and their trunking technologies.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #21 (permalink)  
Old 10-15-2018, 3:08 PM
n1das's Avatar
Member
  Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Nashua, NH
Posts: 938
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by n1das View Post
I requested a quote. Curiosity got the better of me late last night. No response received yet, probably won't receive anything before Monday.


Sent from my XP8800 using Tapatalk
I heard back from Tom Donovan at RadioTwoWay.com. You can pre-order them now but the DTR700 won't be available until December at the earliest. Hopefully it doesn't stretch into March. No more information is available other than what's been posted online. No pricing information is available yet.

I shared my thoughts about the DTR 410/550/650 models going EOL soon and Tom confirmed they already have. Manufacturing of the 410/550/650 models was discontinued about a year ago. The DTR700 is a replacement for these models. The race is on for Motorola to get the DTR700 on the market before the supply of the older DTRs dries up completely. Good thing I got my fleet of DTR650 radios when I did.

While I am interested in the DTR700, it is still vaporware until it goes live on Motorola's website. Hopefully we will see more DTR7xx models in addition to the DTR700.

__________________
David Sterrett
Nashua, NH
Ham [HA] = N1DAS (2/1984)
GMRS [ZA] = KAE9013 (12/1992)

Last edited by n1das; 10-15-2018 at 4:59 PM..
Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
  #22 (permalink)  
Old 10-15-2018, 7:16 PM
alcahuete's Avatar
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Antelope Acres, California
Posts: 307
Default

Nice!! Not really sure how (or why) people would pre-order without knowing the price, but that's neither here nor there. ha ha!

Thanks for the update!
Reply With Quote
  #23 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2018, 12:06 PM
n1das's Avatar
Member
  Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Nashua, NH
Posts: 938
Smile

I am periodically searching the FCC's Equipment Authorization database for evidence of a new FCC ID grant for the DTR700. Nothing found yet. Since the information is publicly viewable, manufacturers often instruct the TCB they use to delay uploading their filing with the FCC until close to the planned go-live date for a new product announcement.

So far, I found information for the DTR410 , DTR550/DTR650, and DLR1020/DLR1060. Nothing yet for a new DTR model.

DTR410 FCC ID: AZ489FT5842
DTR550/DTR650: AZ489FT5852
DLR1020/DLR1060: AZ489FT5871

DTR700, me want.
__________________
David Sterrett
Nashua, NH
Ham [HA] = N1DAS (2/1984)
GMRS [ZA] = KAE9013 (12/1992)

Last edited by n1das; 10-16-2018 at 1:00 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #24 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2018, 8:09 PM
n1das's Avatar
Member
  Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Nashua, NH
Posts: 938
Default

While searching the FCC's Equipment Authorization database for evidence of new DTR models, I stumbled across a related product that was granted its Part 15 cert on 9/26/2018. It is a CB300-D radio call box and designed to work with the DLR models. It should also work with the DTRs.

Model = CB300-D
FCC ID = AZ489FT5875
Grant date = 9/26/2018

The fact that this will work with the DLRs and should work with the DTRs is a sign that Motorola is committed to keeping their 900MHz digital on-site business radios on the market. Motorola does not appear to be abandoning this market. Hopefully we will see a DTR700 soon and maybe some other new DTR models too.

DTR700, me want.


Sent from my XP8800 using Tapatalk
__________________
David Sterrett
Nashua, NH
Ham [HA] = N1DAS (2/1984)
GMRS [ZA] = KAE9013 (12/1992)

Last edited by n1das; 10-16-2018 at 8:29 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #25 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2018, 9:33 PM
Member
   
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 144
Default

Subscribed.

Odd that there's no mention on the Moto site...

Would be so easy for them to make the next gen DTRs the greatest thing ever, but being the pessimist that I am, I'll bet they still don't fix the showstoppers from the previous DTR/DLR series.
It's the radio I hated to love...
Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
  #26 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2018, 11:15 PM
n1das's Avatar
Member
  Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Nashua, NH
Posts: 938
Default

I know a lot of people hated the beeps on the DTRs and they tended to be too loud. The tones in the DLRs are much less obnoxious and the volume can be adjusted. The DLR tones are more like other Motorola radios. The DLRs have voice prompts to announce the channel names, radio name, battery status, and a few other things. The channel and radio names can be customized in the CPS. I expect these features will be carried over to future DTR models.

I expect future DTR models to follow the DLR way of doing things in terms of programming channels and groups. The DLRs have a 4-digit Profile ID to multiply the number of FHSS combinations. To make all of your channels "private" like a DTR private group, simply set a 4-digit profile ID in all radios to the same ID and it doesn't require the CPS. The (now discontinued) DTRs don't have this feature. The DLR Profile ID has to be set to 0000 (OFF, default) for a DLR to work with DTRs. I expect new DTR models will have the profile ID feature. Setting up a private group in the DTRs currently requires the CPS.

I think the DLR channel terminology will prevail over the DTR's public and private talkgroups. To most users the concept of a channel to communicate on is easier to grasp than a talkgroup ("WTH is a talkgroup?"). The average user doesn't need to know that you're operating on a talkgroup that uses a hop set of 50 radio frequencies. A channel to talk on like with a conventional VHF or UHF radio is much easier to grasp. The rest is TMI for the average user.

I think the DLR Profile ID feature makes it easier to add DLRs to an existing fleet of DLRs. Just set the profile ID to match the existing fleet and you're done. CPS is not required to do this. Customization beyond this requires the CPS. Adding DTRs to an existing fleet of DTRs (and DLRs) gets more involved and requires the CPS. The Profile ID feature makes it easier in the DLRs.

It is possible to set up a DLR channel as a private group just like a DTR without using the profile ID. I currently have all of my DLRs and DTRs working with each other in a DTR Private group. The DLR Profile ID is set to 0000 (default) so they can work with the DTRs. Setting up a private group in a DLR is identical to setting one up in a DTR. The one little trick in the DLR is the channel used for the private group has to be changed from Profile ID mode (default) to Private Group mode to program and operate like a DTR.

If you want to make your communications as secure as possible in a fleet of DLRs, I recommend setting up a private group like in a DTR and set the Profile ID to something other than the 0000 default. The Profile ID in a DLR affects the whole radio including a private group.

I expect future DTR models will adopt the DLR way of programming.





Sent from my XP8800 using Tapatalk
__________________
David Sterrett
Nashua, NH
Ham [HA] = N1DAS (2/1984)
GMRS [ZA] = KAE9013 (12/1992)

Last edited by n1das; 10-16-2018 at 11:28 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #27 (permalink)  
Old 10-17-2018, 10:20 AM
n1das's Avatar
Member
  Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Nashua, NH
Posts: 938
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meestor_X View Post
Subscribed.

Odd that there's no mention on the Moto site...

Would be so easy for them to make the next gen DTRs the greatest thing ever, but being the pessimist that I am, I'll bet they still don't fix the showstoppers from the previous DTR/DLR series.
It's the radio I hated to love...
What little information there is about the DTR700 might have been a "leak", dunno if intentional or not. It legally can't be advertised or offered for sale or imported until it gets its FCC certification. That could be why there absolutely no pricing information or a firm availability date for it. It's nothing more than just a hint of some new stuff in the works.

Given that what's in the FCC's database is publicly viewable, manufacturers often time their filing with the FCC to be close to and just before the planned go-live date. We will know it's real after an FCC certification for it appears in the FCC's database. After that happens we can expect to see it on Motorola's website. I expect to also see an update to the CPS to program a DTR700.




Sent from my XP8800 using Tapatalk
__________________
David Sterrett
Nashua, NH
Ham [HA] = N1DAS (2/1984)
GMRS [ZA] = KAE9013 (12/1992)

Last edited by n1das; 10-17-2018 at 10:25 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #28 (permalink)  
Old 10-17-2018, 10:44 AM
alcahuete's Avatar
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Antelope Acres, California
Posts: 307
Default

I'm curious what the showstoppers were on the DTR/DLR series? I haven't found any.
Reply With Quote
  #29 (permalink)  
Old 10-17-2018, 11:14 AM
n1das's Avatar
Member
  Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Nashua, NH
Posts: 938
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by alcahuete View Post
I'm curious what the showstoppers were on the DTR/DLR series? I haven't found any.
Same here! A lot of people say that programming the DTRs (and DLRs) is cryptic but I haven't found that to be the case. I had to spend some time with them and learn my way around the DTRs and DLRs. I recommend spending time to explore and learn your way around each radio before getting serious with programming them.

I currently have my fleet of DLRs working with my fleet of DTRs on a Private Group just like you would with just a fleet of DTRs. I used DLR channel 6 for the private group and left channels 1-5 at the default to match the 5 default public groups in the DTRs.

I customized the DLR channel names so that it announces the custom names instead of the default "channel one", "channel two" announcements. The DLRs announce a unique radio name "Radio name N1DAS DLR One" at power up. The radio names are based on the private ID name for each radio. "Radio name N1DAS DLR Two" etc.

I expect the DTR700 to follow the DLR channel terminology and DLR way of programming.



Sent from my XP8800 using Tapatalk
__________________
David Sterrett
Nashua, NH
Ham [HA] = N1DAS (2/1984)
GMRS [ZA] = KAE9013 (12/1992)
Reply With Quote
  #30 (permalink)  
Old 10-17-2018, 10:44 PM
Member
   
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 144
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by n1das View Post
Same here! A lot of people say that programming the DTRs (and DLRs) is cryptic but I haven't found that to be the case. I had to spend some time with them and learn my way around the DTRs and DLRs. I recommend spending time to explore and learn your way around each radio before getting serious with programming them.

I currently have my fleet of DLRs working with my fleet of DTRs on a Private Group just like you would with just a fleet of DTRs. I used DLR channel 6 for the private group and left channels 1-5 at the default to match the 5 default public groups in the DTRs.

I customized the DLR channel names so that it announces the custom names instead of the default "channel one", "channel two" announcements. The DLRs announce a unique radio name "Radio name N1DAS DLR One" at power up. The radio names are based on the private ID name for each radio. "Radio name N1DAS DLR Two" etc.

I expect the DTR700 to follow the DLR channel terminology and DLR way of programming.



Sent from my XP8800 using Tapatalk
I think you know my expertise with the DTRs; programming wasn't easy to learn at first, but now I humbly submit that I know as much or more than most about programming them.

I however have never used the DLR, they just look like toys in comparison to the DTR. If they do "speak" the id's of the group they are on, then that's a big step up from having to look at the screen on the DTR to see what group you were talking to, so if the 700 can do that as well, this would be good.

The biggest showstopper is the HUGE latency in these things. If they can up the transmission speed so that you can press to talk and speak quickly back-and-forth, then they'd have something I could use.
The other showstopper is that they are unusable in a loud environment. First, the speaker/mic is way too quiet, 2nd, the audio is completely garbled if there is loud ambient noise around it.

These 2 items make them ususable for me, even though I tried my best for many years to "make them work".
Reply With Quote
  #31 (permalink)  
Old 10-20-2018, 12:48 AM
n1das's Avatar
Member
  Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Nashua, NH
Posts: 938
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meestor_X View Post
I think you know my expertise with the DTRs; programming wasn't easy to learn at first, but now I humbly submit that I know as much or more than most about programming them.

I however have never used the DLR, they just look like toys in comparison to the DTR. If they do "speak" the id's of the group they are on, then that's a big step up from having to look at the screen on the DTR to see what group you were talking to, so if the 700 can do that as well, this would be good.

The biggest showstopper is the HUGE latency in these things. If they can up the transmission speed so that you can press to talk and speak quickly back-and-forth, then they'd have something I could use.
The other showstopper is that they are unusable in a loud environment. First, the speaker/mic is way too quiet, 2nd, the audio is completely garbled if there is loud ambient noise around it.

These 2 items make them ususable for me, even though I tried my best for many years to "make them work".
Don't be fooled by the DLRs looking like toys. DLR = Digital Lightweight Radio, according to Motorola.

DLR RF performance is identical to a DTR using the 3.5" 1/4 wave antenna. Both radios transmit at +29.5 dBm (890 mW) (conducted measurement). The 7 inch half wave antenna gives the DTR a slight edge in performance but unless users are at the fringe of coverage they won't notice any difference.

The DLR's large round front PTT button actually makes sense given the radio's very small size. It is very easy to hold the radio in either hand and operate PTT with a thumb press. The small size makes the radio a lot more stealthy compared to a DTR. A DLR radio is smaller than most GMRS/FRS bubble packs.

The DLRs do talk and say the channel name, radio name, battery status, and a few other messages. The DLRs need to talk given that they don't have a display or a traditional channel knob. They don't have a volume knob either. Volume up/down is controlled by the + and - buttons on the side. When you press the menu button on the side, the radio speaks the channel name and says to change, press + or -. The radio announces the channel name as you step through the channels. When you reach the channel you want, press PTT or wait a few seconds for the function to time out. DLR radios are VERY simple to operate and I like the minimalist approach.

The DLRs are Motorola's answer to the DTRs being almost too much radio for the average business radio user. The DLRs appears to be aimed at markets where you see the very popular UHF analog CLS series radios in restaurants and retail establishments. A DLR radio is only about $50 more than a CLS radio.They both use the same battery (BT90) and chargers are compatible. Where the chargers differ pertains to programming and cloning radios. DLRs must be programmed/cloned in DLR chargers. CLS radios must be programmed/cloned in CLS chargers.

The delays are probably not going to change, both in PTT setup and delayed audio.. The radio syncs up with one or more receiving radios during the talk permit tone (TPT). The digital audio delay is a fact of life with digital radios and there will always be some delay. I've never had an issue with it. In P25 public safety radio systems, the delay is short but not insignificant. It is still long enough that the radio is no longer faster than a bullet. Delayed audio is only really an issue when timing of messages is super critical. It also can trip you up when you hear yourself delayed coming out of a receiving radio nearby. Shortening the delays would require redesigning the FHSS protocol and probably not going to happen. The VSELP vocoder might be responsible for some of the audio delay.

The DLRs and DTRs don't have any noise cancelling ability in the mic audio. I hope new DTR models include audio AGC and noise canceling features that other Motorola radios have. Bluetooth would also be really nice to have.

I expect the DTR700 and any other new models to program like the DLRs and follow the DLR way of programming. It is simpler than the DTRs and easier to add new DLRs to an existing fleet of DLRs. If the DTR700 programs like the DLRs, I make keep my fleet of DLRs and sell my fleet of DTR650s. If it programs like my DTRs, I may keep my DTRs and sell my fleet of DLRs.

I sort of don't want to sell my DLRs because they are so damn small and super convenient. The DLRs also don't attract attention like a DTR can do when somebody sees you with a radio and wonders if you are a cop or something else. I like the stealthiness of the DLRs.

Ckickenhawk's DLR review:
https://www.twowayradioforum.com/for...ead.php?t=5991

DTR audio:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaNdMWPmVZI
__________________
David Sterrett
Nashua, NH
Ham [HA] = N1DAS (2/1984)
GMRS [ZA] = KAE9013 (12/1992)

Last edited by n1das; 10-20-2018 at 1:48 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #32 (permalink)  
Old 11-08-2018, 1:22 PM
n1das's Avatar
Member
  Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Nashua, NH
Posts: 938
Default DTR700 and DTR600 FCC certified

Here's some good news about the DTR700. It is no longer vaporware.

The DTR700 and a DTR600 was granted FCC certification today. The posting appeared within the past hour. I have been checking for it a few times a day. The DTR600 model appears to be a lower cost version of the DTR700.

https://fccid.io/AZ489FT5874

As I expected, the DTR700 and DTR600 have adopted the DLR way of programming. They are fully compatible with the DLRs and backward compatible with older DTRs.

The owners guide says to first read the radio as a DLR radio with the CPS and save the profile before doing any programming. I think this is a workaround until the CPS gets updated to include DTR700 and DTR600 default profiles.
Attached Images
File Type: pdf External-Photos-4063656.pdf (183.6 KB, 121 views)
__________________
David Sterrett
Nashua, NH
Ham [HA] = N1DAS (2/1984)
GMRS [ZA] = KAE9013 (12/1992)

Last edited by n1das; 11-08-2018 at 2:36 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #33 (permalink)  
Old 11-14-2018, 6:59 PM
n1das's Avatar
Member
  Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Nashua, NH
Posts: 938
Smile DTR700 expected release date 1/15/2019

NU Radios is now advertising the DTR700 and taking preorders. The expected release date is 1/15/2019.
https://nuradios.com/motorola-radios...SABEgIWFvD_BwE
__________________
David Sterrett
Nashua, NH
Ham [HA] = N1DAS (2/1984)
GMRS [ZA] = KAE9013 (12/1992)
Reply With Quote
  #34 (permalink)  
Old 11-14-2018, 8:11 PM
Homeboys-Scanna's Avatar
Member
   
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,747
Default

This part isn't good:

  • 900 Mhz ISM FHSS Frequencies
  • Frequency Hopping Technology
  • Uses Eavesdrop Resistant FHSS Technology
__________________
"Copy, 132 and Bush, cover's code 3."
Reply With Quote
  #35 (permalink)  
Old 11-14-2018, 8:27 PM
n1das's Avatar
Member
  Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Nashua, NH
Posts: 938
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Homeboys-Scanna View Post
This part isn't good:

  • 900 Mhz ISM FHSS Frequencies
  • Frequency Hopping Technology
  • Uses Eavesdrop Resistant FHSS Technology
What isn't good? The DTRs work amazingly well from my experience with them.



Sent from my XP8800 using Tapatalk
__________________
David Sterrett
Nashua, NH
Ham [HA] = N1DAS (2/1984)
GMRS [ZA] = KAE9013 (12/1992)
Reply With Quote
  #36 (permalink)  
Old 11-14-2018, 8:29 PM
Homeboys-Scanna's Avatar
Member
   
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,747
Default

For the scanning hobby.
__________________
"Copy, 132 and Bush, cover's code 3."
Reply With Quote
  #37 (permalink)  
Old 11-14-2018, 8:48 PM
n1das's Avatar
Member
  Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Nashua, NH
Posts: 938
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Homeboys-Scanna View Post
For the scanning hobby.
These radios are not monitorable on any consumer grade receiver (scanner) so don't even bother trying. Forget about listening to these on a scanner because you can't.

The only inexpensive and practical way to monitor these is with another DTR and/or DLR radio AND it has to be set to the same frequency hopset and talk group ID. The 4-digit Profile ID also has to be correct on the DLRs and the DTR 600/700. The older DTRs don't have the profile ID feature.

I have monitored other DTR and DLR traffic with my DTRs and DLRs. They will work with each other right out of the box. Most users use them at the factory default settings like FRS bubble packs. I set up a Private talkgroup on mine with the CPS so they are unmonitorable by other DTRs and DLRs outside my group.

These radios haven't hampered my scanning hobby at all and have only added to it.





Sent from my XP8800 using Tapatalk
__________________
David Sterrett
Nashua, NH
Ham [HA] = N1DAS (2/1984)
GMRS [ZA] = KAE9013 (12/1992)
Reply With Quote
  #38 (permalink)  
Old 11-14-2018, 8:55 PM
Member
   
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Western Australia
Posts: 90
Default

Try monitoring the Australian release of the DTR !

2.4ghz FHSS
Reply With Quote
  #39 (permalink)  
Old 11-14-2018, 9:07 PM
RayAir's Avatar
Member
   
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Island of OpenSky
Posts: 1,682
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Homeboys-Scanna View Post
This part isn't good:

  • 900 Mhz ISM FHSS Frequencies
  • Frequency Hopping Technology
  • Uses Eavesdrop Resistant FHSS Technology
These things have been around since at least 2005, maybe 2004.
I've discovered a lot of activity on default settings. Just like many radio techs, people are lazy generally aren't going to bother setting up private groups.
Using my DTR 550, I've found activity on public group 1 near me, in NYC, and several public groups in Las Vegas.

Now, if one could decode the sync data which is sent OTA at the same time you hear those annoying 3 beeps then that would likely represent the information concerning the hop sequence/channel/radio#,etc.
Getting at that data is a little tricky due to the FH, but it is doable with a near field receiver.
I was able to capture an entire transmission in a test environment. Of course the voice uses VSELP so it was just digital noise.

Now, those old eXRS radios hopped slower and were ANALOG.

I've taken my DTRs on cruises and always had full ship coverage.
Compare that to some 4W UHF radios I tried on a ship and they only made it a few decks.

I'm glad the DTR radio line is being updated.
__________________
KXKYC JBSOB XBMZE LCVHV WCW
Reply With Quote
  #40 (permalink)  
Old 11-14-2018, 9:40 PM
RayAir's Avatar
Member
   
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Island of OpenSky
Posts: 1,682
Default

Here is what a DTR transmission sounds like being intercepted on a receiver that can handle the FH.
This isn't my YT channel, but since i can't copy the link with my phone for some reason, search "DTR 550 Intercepted" on You Tube.
__________________
KXKYC JBSOB XBMZE LCVHV WCW

Last edited by RayAir; 11-14-2018 at 9:45 PM.. Reason: Can't copy link
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 1:05 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
All information here is Copyright 2012 by RadioReference.com LLC and Lindsay C. Blanton III.Ad Management by RedTyger
Copyright 2015 by RadioReference.com LLC Privacy Policy  |  Terms and Conditions