XTS 5000 question

drumbumer · #1 (**permalink**) 08-19-2007, 09:32 PM

Just bought a "XTS 5000 UHF LOW", and it's in the mail. I probably should have asked this before purchasing it but... will this version of the radio be able to pick up most digital frequencies? I also scan a few analog frequencies, will it be able to pick these up as well? I'm really just looking to use it for personal scanning use.

Also, I realize I probably have to take this radio to a dealer to get programmed. Will they give me any trouble because I am looking to use to radio for personal scanning use? Can I ask them to program the radio so it won't transmit?

If someone could shed some light on this for me it would be great!

Thanks

10-95 · #2 (**permalink**) 08-20-2007, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drumbumer

Just bought a "XTS 5000 UHF LOW", and it's in the mail. I probably should have asked this before purchasing it but... will this version of the radio be able to pick up most digital frequencies? I also scan a few analog frequencies, will it be able to pick these up as well? I'm really just looking to use it for personal scanning use.

Also, I realize I probably have to take this radio to a dealer to get programmed. Will they give me any trouble because I am looking to use to radio for personal scanning use? Can I ask them to program the radio so it won't transmit?

If someone could shed some light on this for me it would be great!

Thanks

Did you run the flashcode through the decoder to determine the options in the flash?
Also, what is the Host/DSP of the radio. It's probably capable of IMBE operation at minimum , but I have seen some Analog only (Astro Ready) XTS5000's on Ebay lately.

Check the info I recommended and see what you have .

drumbumer · #3 (**permalink**) 08-20-2007, 09:48 AM

I decoded the flash code and came up with this:

ASTRO Digital Operation
Enhanced Digital ID Display
SMARTZONE Systems Operation
SMARTZONE OMNILINK Multizone Operation
ASTRO 25 9600 Baud Trunking

rescue161 · #4 (**permalink**) 08-20-2007, 10:05 AM

It's easy to get the CPS from Motorola. That way, you don't have to pay a Motorola dealer to program it for you. For some reason, they (Motorola) don't restrict the CPS for the Astro25 radios.

You can program it to receive only on conventional channels, so they should not give you any problems. You will however have to pay for their services each time you want to change the channel line up. The current cost for the portable CPS is $265.00.

Good luck!

SLWilson · #5 (**permalink**) 08-20-2007, 10:15 AM

I'm just a little curious about how you will obtain the necessary data to "get" it programmed into the radio.

The state of Ohio is using all of the features you listed that the radio you bought will handle. However, they guard their programming data and treat it like it is being held in Ft. Knox.

As I understand it, if you don't have the right passcode to get into the programming mode on the units Ohio uses, you can't even READ the radio to see what is in it.

Maybe other systems aren't that complicated, but, I was just curious if they ARE, how will you get it programmed?

Steve/KB8FAR

SkipSanders · #6 (**permalink**) 08-20-2007, 10:15 AM

As long as you're asking for non trunking programming, and no transmit capability, the radio shop should have no trouble with doing it.

Programming a trunking system is (arguably, but how much can you afford to pay a lawyer) illegal, as it requires use of a proprietary system key. It's also dangerous, as keeping your radio from transmitting in a trunking environment is tricky... and for some systems, near impossible, since the radio won't recieve unless it affiliates with the system (talks to it on the air). I wouldn't go asking a radio shop to program a trunk system for you, unless you're a legitimate user of that system, asking the official shop, AND you have permission to use a personal radio on it.

If your radio DOES transmit/affiliate, the system operator can remotely kill the radio so it doesn't work at all... and they DO watch for this, hard.

There is, by the way, an FCC rule (90.427) making it a violation for a radio tech (or anyone else) to program a Part 90 transmit frequency into a radio when the user isn't authorized to transmit on that frequency.

gatekeep · #7 (**permalink**) 08-20-2007, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SLWilson

As I understand it, if you don't have the right passcode to get into the programming mode on the units Ohio uses, you can't even READ the radio to see what is in it.

If you mean codeplug passwording yes, most CPS (for RECENT radios) does this from what I understand.

RocketNJ · #8 (**permalink**) 08-21-2007, 06:08 AM

The low split UHF will NOT be able to monitor (in trunking mode) UHF T band trunked systems. It will however be able to monitor analong and non-encrypted digital conventional communications with the flash info you provided.

Subscribe to Radio Reference (definitely worth supporting a great site) and use the info in the database to program your radio. Make sure to set up the radio for receive only operation on channels you are not authorized to transmit on. Then no one can give you a hrd time about using the radio as a scanner.

Astro25 · #9 (**permalink**) 08-30-2007, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SLWilson

As I understand it, if you don't have the right passcode to get into the programming mode on the units Ohio uses, you can't even READ the radio to see what is in it.

Steve/KB8FAR

As far as I know, you can retreive passwords from codeplugs. Just open them in hex or word (I forget which), but it should be the same procedure as with the CDM/HT series password recovery.

ElroyJetson · #10 (**permalink**) 09-05-2007, 06:44 PM

There are usually ways around many of the issues mentioned here.

One, that of a radio being unable to receive until it affiliates, is easy to work around.

That's a SmartZone feature. So don't program it in SmartZone mode. Program it
in SmartNet or some other non-SmartZone mode. Then it'll hear the traffic that's
active on the programmed site(s) but doesn't have to affiliate.

And of course, it's wise to use the "hidden talkgroups" method, referring only to your
trunked talkgroups by means of pre-programmed scan lists which are slaved to CONVENTIONAL channels. Do this right and the radio will NOT transmit to the system for
any reason.

Elroy

ATF1224 · #11 (**permalink**) 09-06-2007, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElroyJetson

There are usually ways around many of the issues mentioned here.

One, that of a radio being unable to receive until it affiliates, is easy to work around.

That's a SmartZone feature. So don't program it in SmartZone mode. Program it
in SmartNet or some other non-SmartZone mode. Then it'll hear the traffic that's
active on the programmed site(s) but doesn't have to affiliate.

And of course, it's wise to use the "hidden talkgroups" method, referring only to your
trunked talkgroups by means of pre-programmed scan lists which are slaved to CONVENTIONAL channels. Do this right and the radio will NOT transmit to the system for
any reason.

Elroy

There has been much talk about the XTS3000 being able to passively monitor trunking, but it has been my understanding that the XTS5000 (or any Astro25) will not do this and it has to affiliate to umute to any talkgroup activity...

Care to elaborate a bit Elroy?

ElroyJetson · #12 (**permalink**) 09-08-2007, 04:57 PM

An Astro Saber with the latest flash versions can passively monitor a trunking system using the hidden groups method. Set the coverage type to NONE. And be sure that no talkgroup
is DIRECTLY accessible in the radio.

I have yet to see PROOF that this works on XTS3000s or 5000s but I have no reason to
believe that it won't. The radio is only scanning the trunked groups via the trunked scan
lists that are slaved to CONVENTIONAL personalities, after all.

The radio is never set to anything BUT a conventional channel. Conventional channels that
simply happen to have trunked scan lists attached to them.

How could THAT transmit, if you're never letting the radio see a trunked personality by
any means other than scanning off a conventional channel?

Elroy

ATF1224 · #13 (**permalink**) 09-08-2007, 05:04 PM

You missed my point though..

The Astro Saber and XTS3000 can passively monitor. I have done this with both radios and it works well.

The Astro 25 line (XTS2500,XTS5000,etc) have to affiliate with the system in order to unmute on any talkgroups.

kc4wwu · #14 (**permalink**) 09-09-2007, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ATF1224

You missed my point though..

The Astro Saber and XTS3000 can passively monitor. I have done this with both radios and it works well.

The Astro 25 line (XTS2500,XTS5000,etc) have to affiliate with the system in order to unmute on any talkgroups.

Negative Ghost Rider. The XTS5000 will also work the same way that Elroy has stated.
Put the TalkGroups in the "hidden channels" (channel 17 + in a zone) and slave them channels to a scan list. It will work just fine, and the 5K will NOT affiliate.

Good Job Elroy, mine works great!

alex4659 · #15 (**permalink**) 03-15-2009, 08:58 PM

what do you mean by "hidden channels"

sorry for such a dumb question but im fairly new to this stuff

i have an trunking astro saber 3 800mhz with flashcode: 540008-000480-0

how do i program this radio to not affiliate with the systems im trying to listen to?

please be detailed so i can understand... LOL; as i said, im new to all this scanning stuff

thanks,
Alex

ILMRadioMan · #16 (**permalink**) 03-15-2009, 09:16 PM

Wow, old thread

In newer radios, zones arent held to only 16 channels (as is the standard on the channel knob). Specifically with Type II & III radios that have a directional pad. You can program in 17, 18, 19, etc... channels into a zone.

I believe he is talking about a "multi-system" scan. You can set your scan list to scan multiple trunking systems and conventional frequencies.

You could therefore put talkgroups in that multi system scan list, and apply that scan list to a conventional personality.

You could turn the channel on your radio to a conventional channel associated with that personality, and it would passively "listen" to the control channel on those trunking systems, without actually affiliating.

immelmen · #17 (**permalink**) 03-15-2009, 10:10 PM

what they mean by "hidden channels" is assigning the trunked talkgroups to channels above 16 in a zone. If you dont assign the "channel" softkey menu option then even if you do have model 2 or 3 radios with arrow keys, you still will only be able to directly select 16 channels per zone. Its not necessary, just something you can do if you choose.

hoser147 · #18 (**permalink**) 03-15-2009, 11:00 PM

Steve, is correct on the State of Ohio guarding the info, if you have an active radio for the MARCS system, you have to send it into them to have it programed. Not doubting anyone's knowledge on the radio's being able to monitor with out an affiliation. Only pointing out that Steve is correct on the way they safeguard the system and its templates...

XTS3000 · #19 (**permalink**) 03-16-2009, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ATF1224

You missed my point though..

The Astro Saber and XTS3000 can passively monitor. I have done this with both radios and it works well.

The Astro 25 line (XTS2500,XTS5000,etc) have to affiliate with the system in order to unmute on any talkgroups.

Astro25 radios can passively monitor 3600 TRS's without affiliation, just like the XTS3K's. Put the TX Inhibit on the secure switch or on a menu key.

KEEP THIS IN MIND: If you put an Astro25 radio on a 3600/9600 TRS and use the menu key to TX Inhibit (so ya don't affiliate), and just read the radio, the TX inhibit is reset and turn OFF just by READING the radio in CPS!

Both Astro and Astro 25 radios on 9600 TRS must affiliate to unmute the speaker, unless you use the scan hack to monitor.

Also keep in mind that more and more Astro25 radios are being ASK'ed, so before buying any astro25 radio your first question should be "does this radio have an ASK associated with it?" Came across a radio that would let you read the codeplug, but becasuse the previous owner had an ASK asociated with the radio, you can never write a new codeplug without the ASK (hardware iButton).

So you can bypass a simple radio password, but you'll never bypass a radio programmed using an Advanced System Key.

There are 2 purposes of the ASK. 1) to program TRS system 2) to prevent unauthorized reading/writing radio.

alex4659 · #20 (**permalink**) 03-16-2009, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ILMRadioMan

Wow, old thread

In newer radios, zones arent held to only 16 channels (as is the standard on the channel knob). Specifically with Type II & III radios that have a directional pad. You can program in 17, 18, 19, etc... channels into a zone.

I believe he is talking about a "multi-system" scan. You can set your scan list to scan multiple trunking systems and conventional frequencies.

You could therefore put talkgroups in that multi system scan list, and apply that scan list to a conventional personality.

You could turn the channel on your radio to a conventional channel associated with that personality, and it would passively "listen" to the control channel on those trunking systems, without actually affiliating.

so you are saing that if i program in the control channels as conventional channels, this will let me listen to the talkgroups that run off these control channels?... w/o affiliating, right?

thanks,
Alex