Crypted motorola trunk [HELP needed]

nocomp · #1 (**permalink**) 01-05-2007, 05:09 PM

Hi folks,
today i got some news about the trunk radio i am hunting since a while without success.
It s motorola system these devices : http://www.motorola.com/governmentan...1163i/id_1353i

And now the traffic is crypted with motorola coding systeme.
As you can see on the doc of the radio it s mpt1327, so my question is:
is it possible with a bc250d to liesten to them (if you have the code)
is it possible to find a way to decode them with a prog?
The guy told me that i can t hear any signal with a scan, hoax or true?
thx for your help,deeply appreciate,suffering on these ppl since 2 months,it s about time it end!

best regards

stateboy · #2 (**permalink**) 01-05-2007, 05:21 PM

MPT1327 is not supported by scanners at this time.

nocomp · #3 (**permalink**) 01-05-2007, 05:28 PM

hi stateboy,
so you mean that i can t hear them at all even with a scanner that handle motorola trunk?
so all i can do is decode signals with a prog like code300 ?
damm bought a scanner just for these guys :'(

grant · #4 (**permalink**) 01-05-2007, 05:30 PM

I think the guy is having a lend of you.
The transmitted audio for MPT1327 is analogue ... because MPT1327 is a trunking system it moves around several frequencies.
Trunkview is the program you are after.
Look up the MPT1327 forum under Trunking

Grant

nocomp · #5 (**permalink**) 01-05-2007, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grant

I think the guy is having a lend of you.

Grant

hi what do you mean by that? fooling me?
i ve found with code300 their range of frequency but never heard any voices even on the decoded signal i got SPEECH instead of DATA ,
they have 14 channel between 423 and 425 mhz but never heard a voice just trunk signals.
i would be very pixxxx off if i can t hear them with my bc250
if i get the right conf of their radio could it help? (i know the guy who has all their documentation of the setting)
thx for help, i go have a look in the mpt part of the forum

best regards

morfis · #6 (**permalink**) 01-05-2007, 06:15 PM

Note this thread should be in the MPT1327 Trunking board.

MPT1327 trunk-tracking is not supported by any scanners at this time.

However - if you know all of the frequencies that are used you can probably monitor it quite easily with your Scanner if you program those frequencies into one bank/system then scan them conventionally.

Next step up from that is to use your scanner with a PC and have software do the tracking and control of your radio. There are quite a few programs that will do this ranging from the free TrunkView (http://www.linato.net/trunkview/) via moderately priced Trunksniffer Pro (http://www.trunksniffer.com/) to the fairly expensive (but excellent) FTrunk (http://www.tbsa.com.au/trunk.html).

Software like Code300 is pretty useless for MPT1327 monitoring and doesn't support tracking anyway. If all you wanted to do was monitor the control data rather than track the calls then there are several options that are free and better on this mode than the Hoka software (eg. Tronquito, TrunkView, Trunksniffer/TrunkSnort, RooT's decoder).

(if you are in France then your options are slightly more limited as they don't follow the spec exactly)

nocomp · #7 (**permalink**) 01-05-2007, 06:49 PM

hi morfis,
tried trunkview few time gave me some infos but never been able to control the bc250d (not even in the bearcat drop mmenu)
i gonna try soem extra ones,pitty it s not possible to hear the voice transmitions :'(
thx for your suggestions

morfis · #8 (**permalink**) 01-05-2007, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nocomp

hi morfis,
tried trunkview few time gave me some infos but never been able to control the bc250d (not even in the bearcat drop mmenu)
i gonna try soem extra ones,pitty it s not possible to hear the voice transmitions :'(
thx for your suggestions

I am not familiar with the BC250D or it's command set so have no idea if Trunkview would control it.

I don't understand why you can't hear the voice comms if you know the frequencies in use? Are you sure there are voice comms and not just data/sdm?

nocomp · #9 (**permalink**) 01-05-2007, 07:03 PM

well with code 300 often i can see some SPEECH instead of DATA
but it s suposed to be crypted,maybe that s why :'(
motorola crypted system (that s what i ve been told)
maybe the voice freq are upper or lower than the band i scan,that s a possibility.
i theough that usually trunk use 5mhz max bandwith.
wrong?
best regards

Comint · #10 (**permalink**) 01-05-2007, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nocomp

well with code 300 often i can see some SPEECH instead of DATA
but it s suposed to be crypted,maybe that s why :'(
motorola crypted system (that s what i ve been told)
maybe the voice freq are upper or lower than the band i scan,that s a possibility.

Code300 is not an appropriate prgram to use with Trunking systems. It is giving you misleading information.

MPT1327 has Control Channels, and Traffic Channels.

Generally, any channel on a Site can be used as a Control Channel or as a Traffic Channel. Traffic Channels can be used for Voice or Data, or Both.

Quote:

i theough that usually trunk use 5mhz max bandwith.
wrong?

I know of systems with Channels spread over at least 6 MHz.

Comint · #11 (**permalink**) 01-05-2007, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nocomp

tried trunkview few time gave me some infos but never been able to control the bc250d (not even in the bearcat drop mmenu)
i gonna try soem extra ones,pitty it s not possible to hear the voice transmitions :'(
thx for your suggestions

Trunkview version 1.40 supports the UBC3300XLT, which is the European version of the BC250D. Select that from the menu.

nocomp · #12 (**permalink**) 01-06-2007, 04:03 AM

hi,
here s a screenshot of my trunkview, where do you have ubc3300xlt?
if the voice is crypted,how does it sound, do you guys can post a sound sample ?
that ll help me to find them.
best rgeards

morfis · #13 (**permalink**) 01-06-2007, 05:04 AM

If the control protocol is available online then compare it with the other types that are specifically supported and try the most similar. Also try posting to the TrunkView support group at yahoo (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/trunkview).

It is unlikely (not impossible) that the voice is encrypted but using an MPT1327 trunk control layer

Comint · #14 (**permalink**) 01-06-2007, 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nocomp

. . they have 14 channel between 423 and 425 mhz but never heard a voice just trunk signals. . . if i get the right conf of their radio could it help? (i know the guy who has all their documentation of the setting)

Why not ask the 'guy' for the frequencies of the 14 Channels, as well as the Channel Number for each of the frequencies.

It is possible that the organisation only uses the system for transmitting Data to Mobile Data Terminals (MDTs) or similar, and does not even use Voice.

nocomp · #15 (**permalink**) 01-06-2007, 05:47 AM

hi
well i won t be able to catch up with the guy within a month unfortunately :'( and i like tryin to find out by myself.
i ve looked at the yahoo group (i am a pending member) aned typer ubc3300xlt in the search menu and gave no results

they use the radio mostly for talking , they are the council police and also technical services are on this system.

what i don t get is that i never heard any voices "in clear" and something is sure, there radio is not tetra and not apco, as said in the tech review of their tx/rx it s mpt1327.
Now,if they have crypted audio, how would it appear in trunkview? would you get different informations than with a classic trunk radio?
best regards

morfis · #16 (**permalink**) 01-06-2007, 06:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nocomp

what i don t get is that i never heard any voices "in clear" and something is sure, there radio is not tetra and not apco, as said in the tech review of their tx/rx it s mpt1327.
Now,if they have crypted audio, how would it appear in trunkview? would you get different informations than with a classic trunk radio?
best regards

No, MPT1327 just describes the trunking protocol and basic data message transfer. IF there is voice encryption that is a separate issue and the encryption could be simple voice inversion or it could use something more complex like APCO P25.
It is extremely rare to use MPT1327 with an encrypted voice layer however.

nocomp · #17 (**permalink**) 01-06-2007, 08:24 AM

hi morfis,
well "badluck" is my second name, and i wouldn t be surprised that they have crypted audio,otherwise how come i ve never been able to hear them even just a bit like other trunk freq.
Surely something fishy is goin on,what i am sure, they don t use apco and don t use tetra.
if it would be a voice inverter solution that they used, i would be able to recognize it and decode it with a prog for that,but i have no clues what so ever about what they choose.
do you know any crypting solutions compatible with their radio? Any motorola "plugin" ?
thx for help
best regards

morfis · #18 (**permalink**) 01-06-2007, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nocomp

hi morfis,
well "badluck" is my second name, and i wouldn t be surprised that they have crypted audio,otherwise how come i ve never been able to hear them even just a bit like other trunk freq.
Surely something fishy is goin on,what i am sure, they don t use apco and don t use tetra.
if it would be a voice inverter solution that they used, i would be able to recognize it and decode it with a prog for that,but i have no clues what so ever about what they choose.
do you know any crypting solutions compatible with their radio? Any motorola "plugin" ?
thx for help
best regards

How are you sure about what they are NOT using?

The only >Motorola< "plugin" that would be easily supported is voice inversion with compression. Not all voice inversion is "simple".

I still think it very unlikley that they are using any encryption. Encryption adds expense to radio systems that the vast majority of users cannot afford (and do not need).

You have said that they use 14 channels...that is a lot for a single MPT1327 system.

What is the control channel frequency, the 'voice channel frequency/channel number pairs, where is the system you are trying to monitor?

nocomp · #19 (**permalink**) 01-06-2007, 09:09 AM

hi,
first a friend know the guy that installed the thing, told him it was a trunk moto type 2 system,this is how we know what it is, and once we saw the radio they use (link above), we digged the thing and find out that these radio are only trunk radio, can t be set as apco .
On the other side,i ve worked with .gouv.fr when they tried tetrapol radio, and these ppl didn t get any notice from the council for an extra tetra network,cause they are the one in charge of tetra in the area, it can t be tetra, and in the doc specs, it doesn t say it can handle tetra.
so this is how we got to know what system is in used.
I am not sure yet about what is the control freq and so on, still scanning here and there till i get a good database of informations,wich i ll transmit you in case it can help.
The only thing worrying me,we never heard them.
Geneva s council police (switzerland near us) is using the same system,but no crypto cause we can hear them a bit,so my thinking is "geneva with all the money they have are not crypted, so why my council would be, but then a reliable source told me "they are"....
hope i ll have te docs soon,sick of this situation.
What are the best prog for all that concern voice invert and eq?
thx for help
best regards

morfis · #20 (**permalink**) 01-06-2007, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nocomp

hi,
first a friend know the guy that installed the thing, told him it was a trunk moto type 2 system,this is how we know what it is, and once we saw the radio they use (link above), we digged the thing and find out that these radio are only trunk radio, can t be set as apco .

If that IS the radio they are using then the system is MPT1327 and NOT Motorola Type II.

Which is correct...the system type or the radio type?

Quote:

Originally Posted by nocomp

On the other side,i ve worked with .gouv.fr when they tried tetrapol radio, and these ppl didn t get any notice from the council for an extra tetra network,cause they are the one in charge of tetra in the area, it can t be tetra, and in the doc specs, it doesn t say it can handle tetra.
so this is how we got to know what system is in used.
I am not sure yet about what is the control freq and so on, still scanning here and there till i get a good database of informations,wich i ll transmit you in case it can help.
The only thing worrying me,we never heard them.
Geneva s council police (switzerland near us) is using the same system,but no crypto cause we can hear them a bit,so my thinking is "geneva with all the money they have are not crypted, so why my council would be, but then a reliable source told me "they are"....
hope i ll have te docs soon,sick of this situation.
What are the best prog for all that concern voice invert and eq?
thx for help
best regards

So we are talking about a system in France?

Seems to me you actually KNOW nothing about the system other than some rumour and that certainly isn't going to make it easy for anyone here to help you.