Mpt-1327

[mikebennett]

Can this type system (450 mhz) be monitored with a trunking scanner? If so what settings do you use?

[Saint]

Originally Posted by mikebennett

Can this type system (450 mhz) be monitored with a trunking scanner? If so what settings do you use?

There are no scanners that will trunk track this system, you can leave out the control channels and just put in the voice channels and listen to them as conventional frequencies.
Steve

[rdale]

No, read any of the threads in this forum for ways to do it though.

[kwrxxx]

Originally Posted by mikebennett

Can this type system (450 mhz) be monitored with a trunking scanner? If so what settings do you use?

You can use a win radio to monitor them, but it is a little expensive as a MPT-1327 trunk monitor.

[mikebennett]

Originally Posted by Saint

There are no scanner that will trunk track this system, you can leave out the control channels and just put in the voice channels and listen to them as conventional frequencies.
Steve

That's what I've been doing but I've never heard any traffic. There is a small town that uses this that I pass through once or twice a year. I guess I just haven't stayed long enough to catch something. Thanks.

[mikebennett]

Here's another question though. Someone has submitted the police talkgroup ID on this system. How did they come up with it if you can't monitor the system?

[Saint]

Originally Posted by mikebennett

Here's another question though. Someone has submitted the police talkgroup ID on this system. How did they come up with it if you can't monitor the system?

He/She could have access to the working of the system, you can glean information on the system by using different decoding programs off the internet, including unitrunker and others, We have a system that a person has inside information on from the tech people who take care of the system, this is the information on this system,
http://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=3341

Steve

[mikebennett]

Originally Posted by Saint

He/She could have access to the working of the system, you can glean information on the system by using different decoding programs off the internet, including unitrunker and others, We have a system that a person has inside information on from the tech people who take care of the system, this is the information on this system,
http://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=3341

Steve

It doesn't seem very beneficial though if you can't use the information!

[Comint]

Originally Posted by mikebennett

It doesn't seem very beneficial though if you can't use the information!

Your original question was: "Can this type system be monitored with a trunking scanner?", and the answer is NO.

However, as has already been pointed out, such a system can still be monitored by other means. eg., Hardware such as Winradio or FTrunk, or software applications such as TrunkView or UniTrunker, and others.

--
Comint

[Jay911]

If you have enough time and patience, you can set up a computer to do the 'trunktracking' part of MPT1327 trunking. You'll need two radios (ideally), one for the control channel and one for voice. (You can do it with one radio, but it's IMHO not preferable, because while your radio is doing the 'voice' bit of things, there could be important stuff coming across the control channel that you're missing.)

You can use one of two programs to accomplish this: Either Unitrunker or Trunkview do rather nicely. You don't even need a discriminator tap, like you do with other trunking protocols. Just plug the earphone jack of the scanner into your computer and start the program (more or less). Trunkview is designed to use a single-radio operation, IIRC, while Unitrunker is more suited to dual-radio functionality.

I have a nearby MPT1327 system on which I run Unitrunker 24/7. I don't bother with a voice radio, because I have the voice channels already loaded in to my work radio (fire department - and it's a neighboring town's fire radio system). You will get user radio IDs and talkgroup IDs on the system and can follow the transmissions fairly easily.

As for why scanner manufacturers haven't instituted MPT1327 trunking in their products yet, I can only assume it's because they think there's no need/want/interest for it. MPT1327 is blindingly easy to implement, in comparison to other protocols - especially because MPT1327 is an open standard, freely published and available (so there's no need to do any licensing, like there is/was for Motorola, EDACS, etc).

[mikebennett]

Originally Posted by Jay911

If you have enough time and patience, you can set up a computer to do the 'trunktracking' part of MPT1327 trunking. You'll need two radios (ideally), one for the control channel and one for voice. (You can do it with one radio, but it's IMHO not preferable, because while your radio is doing the 'voice' bit of things, there could be important stuff coming across the control channel that you're missing.)

You can use one of two programs to accomplish this: Either Unitrunker or Trunkview do rather nicely. You don't even need a discriminator tap, like you do with other trunking protocols. Just plug the earphone jack of the scanner into your computer and start the program (more or less). Trunkview is designed to use a single-radio operation, IIRC, while Unitrunker is more suited to dual-radio functionality.

I have a nearby MPT1327 system on which I run Unitrunker 24/7. I don't bother with a voice radio, because I have the voice channels already loaded in to my work radio (fire department - and it's a neighboring town's fire radio system). You will get user radio IDs and talkgroup IDs on the system and can follow the transmissions fairly easily.

As for why scanner manufacturers haven't instituted MPT1327 trunking in their products yet, I can only assume it's because they think there's no need/want/interest for it. MPT1327 is blindingly easy to implement, in comparison to other protocols - especially because MPT1327 is an open standard, freely published and available (so there's no need to do any licensing, like there is/was for Motorola, EDACS, etc).

If it's that easy I don't know why they haven't either.

I wonder how all these agencies using unusual or proprietary systems such as this communicate with other departments for mutual aid. It's probably not that big a deal in a large metro area but it seems like it would be an issue for a smaller agency.

[rdale]

It's not hard at all - every trunked radio system has a simple way of patching into other departments for mutual aid.

[CAPTLPOL1]

You can use Winradio to monitor the system. In a way, Winradio is a trunking scanner.

[KA2FWN]

ya can buy a cheep mpt radio some system opts will program it like a scanner for you
we used to do it a lot for edacs back when...
you can just put the channels in n scan everything
we run a 3 site mpt system , but not much i want to scan only monitor for system trouble

[Jay911]

Originally Posted by rdale

It's not hard at all - every trunked radio system has a simple way of patching into other departments for mutual aid.

I wouldn't say every system does. The MPT system I referenced in the above post is quite poorly installed IMO.. the way mutual aid is handled is that the agency with the MPT system will switch to 400MHz conventional channels (their system is 400 as well) to work with other local agencies still using 400 conventional, or if mutual aid is coming into the area for the MPT system, they just do without comms with the local department.

IMO, there's a lot wrong with this system.. the fact that it's message trunking vs. transmission trunking (which is what most modern trunk systems use) makes it a big hurdle for making patching work. I haven't seen an appropriate comm center solution, either, and I work both ends of the mic in this regard.. the solution provided by the MPT user to the comm center seems to be a mobile radio at the tower site hooked in to the comm card for the center's console, with the audio and PTT lines hooked up.

Others will champion MPT and say it works 'faultlessly', and perhaps the system here is just really, really shoddily installed and implemented. But the end result is, from what I've seen and heard of the system in use and the means by which it can('t) be linked with other systems and even a dispatch center, I don't consider it a good tool for emergency services, especially considering the nature of needing interoperability/comms during mutual aid as you mentioned.

[mikebennett]

The system that I was asking about (Decatur, TX PD) is on UHF while the SO and Highway Patrol are on VHF. I would think they would have to have a separate VHF radio for inter-agency talk unless they have some kind of cross-band repeater set-up which I doubt.

[citylink_uk]

As already said it should be easy for scanner manufactures to add MPT trunk tracking because the whole protocol is downloadable off the internet and free.

MPT systems really weren’t designed for Public Safety but companies such as Fylde Micro (www.fyldemicro.com) make dispatch applications for them. The main problem is multisite group calls which can take 1.5 seconds to setup which for allot of Public Safety applications is probably too long but for other agencies it might not be a problem at all.

Another thing is MPT just like other Trunked systems, if it’s not setup and the parameters fine tuned from the start, users will loose confidence in its abilities.

Another thing is the knowledge and training of the installers, especially as MPT is only just becoming used in the US, whilst UK & Europe have been using and perfecting it since the late 1980’s.

[Skud]

what type os systems do they use? I heard of ACSSB. Any idea on what the systems are the US use or how to find out? I have one of the techs from GRE asking me because they have had some other poeple asking.

[Comint]

Originally Posted by Skud

what type os systems do they use? I heard of ACSSB. Any idea on what the systems are the US use or how to find out?

Details of the protocol can be downloaded here.

I believe most of the systems in America comply with the Standard. However, there are some systems in Europe, particularly France, that apparently don't fully comply with respect to the Sync bits. Worldwide, not very many systems use ACSSB.

I have one of the techs from GRE asking me because they have had some other poeple asking.

Perhaps they should download TrunkSnort/VBTrunk from here, and see how they did it. ;-)
Version 1.24 comes with the Source Code, although there are quite a few errors in the implementation.
.

[citylink_uk]

The maker & developers of the Trunkview program are apparently willing to provide any help to getting a trackable scanner for MPT systems.

Rich