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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 03-02-2008, 2:31 PM
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Question How to convert ID numbers?

Hi all!

I tried to monitor our MPT-1327 system and find out that ID in decoding software appears in different format.

For e.g.:

True radio ID: 701
Decoded ID: 503 (TrunkView) or 0-0503 (Unitrunker).

I am absolutely sure that true radio ID is 701 because... because I own this radio It's a Motorola GP1200. Below quotation from RSS:
Code:
Own Number Prefix....................200                                     
Own Fleet Individual Number..........2001                                    
Unit Number..........................3 Digits   Highest..899    Own.....701
                                                From.....200    To......899  
Own Fleet Group Number...............5900                                    
Group Number.........................3 Digits   Highest..998
How to convert 503 to the 701???

Any help will be appreciated!

Last edited by wireless_friendly; 03-02-2008 at 3:36 PM..
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Old 03-02-2008, 6:36 PM
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Hmm. Someone familiar with how it appears in RSS will have to chime in, but I'm frankly stumped. I was going to suggest hex vs dec, but that doesn't match. I could also mention prefixes, but again, doesn't meet up.

It could be that MPT uses different 'notation' internally. I know that a system which used to operate here, which had a talkgroup ID 6001 displaying in Trunkview/UT, was actually displayed on the radio as TG 901 (or 9*901).

I'm completely stumped, even looking at what you posted in RSS. I'm subscribing to the thread because you've got me curious now.
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Old 03-03-2008, 1:01 AM
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Does Motorola have their own "numerology" for MPT1327 Idents?

For comparison - Motorola RSS convention for Type II trunking talkgroups and radio ids is to prefix those numbers with a leading "7" or "8".

For someone with (a) a radio, (b) RSS, and (c) permission to do so - it wouldn't take long to map out the relationship between the MPT packet Idents and the RSS displayed IDs by systematically trying out a range of IDs in the radio. PTT each ID and see what's logged.
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Old 03-03-2008, 2:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wireless_friendly
Hi all!

I tried to monitor our MPT-1327 system and find out that ID in decoding software appears in different format.

For e.g.:

True radio ID: 701
Decoded ID: 503 (TrunkView) or 0-0503 (Unitrunker).

I am absolutely sure that true radio ID is 701 because... because I own this radio It's a Motorola GP1200. Below quotation from RSS:
Code:
Own Number Prefix....................200                                     
Own Fleet Individual Number..........2001                                    
Unit Number..........................3 Digits   Highest..899    Own.....701
                                                From.....200    To......899  
Own Fleet Group Number...............5900                                    
Group Number.........................3 Digits   Highest..998
How to convert 503 to the 701???

Any help will be appreciated!
What Trunkview shows is the actual MPT1327 Prefix/Ident.

The RSS quote indicates that the subject network is probably using MPT1343 numbering.
See Section 8.2.2.2 of the MPT1343 Specification.

The Specification allows the 8100 Ident range to be broken up into multiple User Groups, to better utilise the Ident range.

For example:- You could have a local Bus Service with Idents 1 to 2999, a Transport Company with Idents 3002 to 5999, and a Mining Company with Idents 6002 t0 8100.

I believe the reasoning is, that there is not much sense having the whole block of 8100 idents tied up by a single business with only half-a-dozen radios, and no likelihood of any major expansion.

There is also another similar numbering scheme called CPSX (Chinese Police Systems X), although I doubt it would be in use in America.

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Old 03-04-2008, 3:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wireless_friendly

True radio ID: 701
Decoded ID: 503 (TrunkView) or 0-0503 (Unitrunker).

I am absolutely sure that true radio ID is 701 because...
(000) 503 [TrunkView], or 0-0503 [UniTrunker], is the TRUE radio ID. That is what the radio is broadcasting over the air. MPT1327 to/from MPT1343 conversion takes place with-in each radio.

The conversion formulas use parameters that are not broadcast, so programs such as TrunkView and UniTrunker cannot be expected to know that the radio is not using standard MPT1327 numbering.

I am not familiar with the GP1200, but I expect your radio would display a full address of 200 2001 701, somewhere.
And by reverse calculation, I would say that the Individual Base Indent (IBI) for your fleet is 2.

Perhaps the attached images will clarify the situation.

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Last edited by Comint; 03-04-2008 at 4:07 AM..
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Old 03-10-2008, 4:47 PM
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Hi all!

Thanks for replies! And special thanks to Comint for picture. Formula from example # 1 works fine!

But now I have faced with other problem - after few days of monitoring via TrunkView and UniTrunker, I find out that majority of subscribers have 4-digit ID (range beginning nearby 7552 the end nearby 7720).

Also to networks are presented subscribers with 2-digit and 3-digit ID (for e.g. my with ID = 503/701).

What is it? What it for 4-digit numbers?

Motorola radios with MPT1343 Dialing Plan allow setting ID no more than 3 digit in the length.

And the most important question - how to transform 4-digit numbers to 3-digit?

P.S.
I don't know IBI. Whether I can get it from air or from RSS?

Last edited by wireless_friendly; 03-10-2008 at 4:51 PM..
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Old 03-11-2008, 2:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wireless_friendly
But now I have faced with other problem - after few days of monitoring via TrunkView and UniTrunker, I find out that majority of subscribers have 4-digit ID (range beginning nearby 7552 the end nearby 7720).

Also to networks are presented subscribers with 2-digit and 3-digit ID (for e.g. my with ID = 503/701).

What is it? What it for 4-digit numbers?
Don't understand above comments. Maybe 4-digit ID subscribers are NOT using MPT1343 numbering. Also, what is the Prefix associated with these 7xxx idents. ie. the number in brackets in TrunkView.

Just remember the Prefix is part of the address. Going on your original post, your address is (000) 0503 (TrunkView), or 0-0503 (uniTrunker) - NOT just 503.

Quote:
And the most important question - how to transform 4-digit numbers to 3-digit?
See example # 2 above.

Quote:
I don't know IBI. Whether I can get it from air or from RSS?
As stated in my original post:-

"The conversion formulates use parameters that are not broadcast . . ."

and

"Your service provider or network operator can provide you with this number if you do not know it."

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Old 03-11-2008, 6:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Comint
Don't understand above comments. Maybe 4-digit ID subscribers are NOT using MPT1343 numbering. Also, what is the Prefix associated with these 7xxx idents. ie. the number in brackets in TrunkView.

Just remember the Prefix is part of the address. Going on your original post, your address is (000) 0503 (TrunkView), or 0-0503 (uniTrunker) - NOT just 503.
Ok.

Prefix is always (000) in my network.

Below examples of IDs (from TrunkView log):

Quote:
(000) Org: 7507 Tar: 7400
(000) Org: 101 Tar: General PSTN gateway ident
(000) Org: 41 Tar: 7572
As you can see 2-digit, 3-digit & 4-digit subscribers are present in network.

Quote:
See example # 2 above.
You are suppose that some part of subscribers use MPT1327 Dial Plan, but other part uses MPT1343 Dial Plan? And therefore I must convert 4-digit numbers like shown in example # 2?

Quote:
As stated in my original post:-

"The conversion formulates use parameters that are not broadcast . . ."

and

"Your service provider or network operator can provide you with this number if you do not know it."
It's pity

Will try to obtain Unit Number from subscriber with 4-digit Unit Ident and will try to calculate IBI on the basis of this.
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Old 03-11-2008, 9:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wireless_friendly
Below examples of IDs (from TrunkView log):

As you can see 2-digit, 3-digit & 4-digit subscribers are present in network.
I think you are getting confused between MPT1327 and 1343.

Technically, ALL 1327 Idents are 4-digit ie. 41 is broadcast over the air as 0041, and 503 is broadcast as 0503, etc.

With MPT1343, you have 2-digit individual idents for small fleets (20 to 89), and 3-digit individual idents for large fleets (200 to 899). And depending on what number is used for the Individual Base Ident (IBI) depends on how these fleet numbers appear in their MPT1327 form. In other words, they could appear as 2-, 3-, or 4-digit idents under MPT1327, even though they appear as 3-digit idents on your radios.

Quote:
Will try to obtain Unit Number from subscriber with 4-digit Unit Ident and will try to calculate IBI on the basis of this.
In an earlier post I proffered that the IBI for your fleet might be 2. However that number does not work for the 7xxx idents, in which case my calculations are incorrect, or the 7xxx series of idents are not part of your fleet. In the latter case, you would need at least the Fleet Individual Number, as well as the Unit Number, to calculate the IBI. It would be better if you could get the actual IBI/s.

Also, some of the 7xxx idents could be Group Idents, but I haven't been able to work out the MPT1343 conversion for those.

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Old 03-11-2008, 9:42 AM
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Comint, thank you for your time and replies!
Quote:
Technically, ALL 1327 Idents are 4-digit ie. 41 is broadcast over the air as 0041, and 503 is broadcast as 0503, etc.
I hope that you correct, because UniTrunker really show 4 digits after dash for all subscribers. Just I mixed up with Appendix D, which describe UN2D and UN3D what mean 2-digit and 3-digit Unit Number accordingly.
Quote:
With MPT1343, you have 2-digit individual idents for small fleets (20 to 89), and 3-digit individual idents for large fleets (200 to 899). And depending on what number is used for the Individual Base Ident (IBI) depends on how these fleet numbers appear in their MPT1327 form.
In RSS all really looks as you describe.
Quote:
In other words, they could appear as 2-, 3-, or 4-digit idents under MPT1327, even though they appear as 3-digit idents on your radios.
I believed precisely also when asked about that how to make converting. But it is very good, that you have confirmed it.
Quote:
In an earlier post I proffered that the IBI for your fleet might be 2. However that number does not work for the 7xxx idents, in which case my calculations are incorrect,
You are correct, calculations for 7xxx UIs with IBI = 2 is foolish
Quote:
are not part of your fleet.
How I can determine from air they are part of my fleet or not?
Quote:
In the latter case, you would need at least the Fleet Individual Number, as well as the Unit Number, to calculate the IBI.
I understand it from formula
Quote:
Also, some of the 7xxx idents could be Group Idents, but I haven't been able to work out the MPT1343 conversion for those.
How to distinguish group UI from individual UI?

Last edited by wireless_friendly; 03-11-2008 at 9:51 AM..
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Old 03-12-2008, 12:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wireless_friendly
How I can determine from air they are part of my fleet or not?
No easy way that I know of.

Quote:
How to distinguish group UI from individual UI?
Again. No easy way.
Some people automatically assume that Idents above 6000 are Group calls, however I've seen fleets where the Group calls are at 3000. And I have a fleet in my area where all their UIs are in the 6400 to 6700 range, with their fleet calls above 7100.

Bear in mind that you can only have a maximum of 9 Groups on a 2-digit system, and 98 Groups on a 3-digit system (900 to 998), and the log entries you posted range from 7400 to 7572 so don't fit that criteria.

And remember, there can be half-a-dozen or more different fleets in the same Prefix, and each fleet has its own unique idents.

~~~~~~~~~

On your network, have you logged any Idents in the 6800 to 6898 range.

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