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Multi-State Communications Networks - The purpose of this forum is for discussion of trunked or conventional communications networks that span more than one state. They are local government or commercial in nature. For Federal or Military use the appropriate Topic Specific forum.

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Old 07-22-2016, 4:56 PM
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I went ahead and changed Site 23 back to undefined since we cannot confirm the location with any certainty. If the neighbor sites are programmed by the radio techs and they are not based on what each repeater actually "hears" as a neighbor, then it would not make any sense for them to program Hazleton as a neighbor to Roxbury since it's so far away.
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Old 07-22-2016, 5:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sibbley View Post
Yes, 502.9375 out of Salisbury, WPNU846. I get the same TGID's as 462.1000 2500, 760, etc.

I am using a 436HP and 536HP to log these (current activity, activity monitor, and LCN Monitor) It's LCN 1. Out of the 5 frequencies listed I only ever get the 1 LCN. I also get Net 141/Site 16.

How was it determined that the 462.1000 site was in Easton? I have to go by signal, and the signal should be stronger if the site was in Easton.
Is 462.1000 a control channel also identifying itself as Site 141-16? I believe this is correct from past posts but since you're in the area can you confirm? -- And is 502.9375 also a control channel identifying as Site 141-16?
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibbley View Post
Activity monitor does show me voice channel switch from LCN 1 to LCN 2, but I never actually found the frequency for 2.
If you're watching this on DSD+ then what is visible is the LSN (logical slot numbering). LSN 1/2 refer to LCN 1, LSN 3/4 refer to LCN 2, etc... So if you're seeing voice on LSN 2, it is on slot 2 of the same frequency that the control channel is on.

Last edited by Gilligan; 07-22-2016 at 5:24 PM..
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Old 07-22-2016, 5:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilligan View Post
Is 462.1000 a control channel also identifying itself as Site 141-16? I believe this is correct from past posts but since you're in the area can you confirm? -- And is 502.9375 also a control channel identifying as Site 141-16?
If you're watching this on DSD+ then what is visible is the LSN (logical slot numbering). LSN 1/2 refer to LCN 1, LSN 3/4 refer to LCN 2, etc... So if you're seeing voice on LSN 2, it is on slot 2 of the same frequency that the control channel is on.
462.1000 is not a control channel. I have it up on DSD+ right now. 462.1000 only seems to identify as 141-16 while there are comms. From my ProScan log:

2500 462.1000/2 CC 1 2510 Conventional DMR - Indus. Comms. - Net 141 : Site *16 : TG ******0 Conventional CON


What you are saying about LSN vs LCN makes sense to me. I'll need to let DSD+ sit awhile. I actually found LCN 2 referenced in activity monitor. That log is at work. I can post that on Monday.

502.9375 is a control channel. From DSD+: CC 1 Also shows RAS

2016/07/22 17:31:55 Current network: 141
2016/07/22 17:31:55 Current site: 141-16
2016/07/22 17:31:55 141-16 neighbor: Site 141-3
2016/07/22 17:31:55 141-16 neighbor: Site 141-10
2016/07/22 17:31:55 141-16 neighbor: Site 141-18
2016/07/22 17:31:55 141-16 neighbor: Site 141-24
2016/07/22 17:31:55 141-16 neighbor: Site 141-45

I get better signal here at home @ 700ft elevation. I'll let DSD+ chew on this for awhile.
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Old 07-22-2016, 6:28 PM
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Haven't ran DSD+ lately but in the past I've monitored this system (mainly Site 18 which is closest to me). Here's what I logged from the times I monitored the system using my Pro 668 and DSD+.

Triangle Comms (141)
Site 1
Site 3 (Lionville) CC=3
452.825 (1/2), 461.675, 463.925
TG 2160
Site 5 (Honeybrook)
502.8875, 501.9125
Site 6
Site 7
Site 8
Site 9 (CC=9)
452.525
Site 13
Site 14 (Concordville)
454.250, 502.9125 (1/2)
Site 15
Site 16
Site 18 (Philadelphia) CC=4
454.25625 (3/4)
454.275 (1/2)
TG 2640 (K&S Towing)
TG 2500 (Paratransit Service)
TG 760 (School Bus)
TG 2620
TG 2510
TG 2501
TG 344
Site 19
Site 23
Site 25
Site 26
Site 27 (CC=13)
454.34375
Site 28 (CC=14)
454.53125
Site 29 (CC=15)
454.19375
Site 45

Except for K&S Towing on 2640 the descriptions I have are only my guess at what the traffic on the talk group was at the time of monitoring. I should note I've monitored K&S Towing not only on Site 18 but also sites 3 and 14. I'm seeing on the database TG 344 mentioned as a school bus operator in the Harrisburg area. It's very possible that's who it is and I picked up traffic from someone roaming onto Site 18 (possibly on a trip). Frequencies for Sites 27-29 I picked up from a post by Voyager.
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Old 07-22-2016, 6:51 PM
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This is all that I can RX


Site 141-3 CC 3 452.825 MHz
141-3 neighbor: Site 141-5
141-3 neighbor: Site 141-14
141-3 neighbor: Site 141-16
141-3 neighbor: Site 141-18
141-3 neighbor: Site 141-45

Site 141-5 CC 5 502.8875 MHz
141-5 neighbor: Site 141-3
141-5 neighbor: Site 141-6
141-5 neighbor: Site 141-11
141-5 neighbor: Site 141-14
141-5 neighbor: Site 141-22

Site 141-18 CC 4 454.275 MHz
141-18 neighbor: Site 141-3
141-18 neighbor: Site 141-5
141-18 neighbor: Site 141-14
141-18 neighbor: Site 141-15
141-18 neighbor: Site 141-16
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Old 07-22-2016, 7:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sibbley View Post
462.1000 is not a control channel. I have it up on DSD+ right now. 462.1000 only seems to identify as 141-16 while there are comms. From my ProScan log:

2500 462.1000/2 CC 1 2510 Conventional DMR - Indus. Comms. - Net 141 : Site *16 : TG ******0 Conventional CON


What you are saying about LSN vs LCN makes sense to me. I'll need to let DSD+ sit awhile. I actually found LCN 2 referenced in activity monitor. That log is at work. I can post that on Monday.

502.9375 is a control channel. From DSD+: CC 1 Also shows RAS

2016/07/22 17:31:55 Current network: 141
2016/07/22 17:31:55 Current site: 141-16
2016/07/22 17:31:55 141-16 neighbor: Site 141-3
2016/07/22 17:31:55 141-16 neighbor: Site 141-10
2016/07/22 17:31:55 141-16 neighbor: Site 141-18
2016/07/22 17:31:55 141-16 neighbor: Site 141-24
2016/07/22 17:31:55 141-16 neighbor: Site 141-45

I get better signal here at home @ 700ft elevation. I'll let DSD+ chew on this for awhile.
Based on this information, I have removed the location reference to Easton and simply renamed the site as "Site 16". This is also the first time I've seen neighbor site info for Site 16 so that may help us track it down. I'm very curious about it showing RAS, however -- I didn't realize that could be used on Connect Plus and I haven't seen it on any other sites yet.
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Old 07-22-2016, 7:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sibbley View Post
Yes, 502.9375 out of Salisbury, WPNU846. I get the same TGID's as 462.1000 2500, 760, etc. ..... How was it determined that the 462.1000 site was in Easton? I have to go by signal, and the signal should be stronger if the site was in Easton.
If you could get a bearing on that tower and see if it is to your southwest, and not your southeast, I would be inclined to change it to Salisbury Township as you mentioned. The license would match up (although it is licensed as conventional).
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Old 07-22-2016, 7:46 PM
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Below is a link to a Google Excel doc. This is my take on things, as of 7/22/2016. You don't have to agree with me at all, but try not to discount my data. I'm the first one to publically note the existence of Network 141 and the 3 control channels from Sites 27/28/29 (although I didn't know where they were). I've been pondering this system from afar for a long time and am going to continue following the progress.

I'd like to help out, but already I sense that toes are being stepped on. So, I'll document all my thoughts, findings, etc. elsewhere and anybody can do what they want with that information.

I make all my determinations from FCC database records (what you can get from RR, as well as FCC Part 22 licenses and their market area coverage) as well as from the PADNR map [not up to date, but very useful] and some decent instinct.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

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Old 07-22-2016, 8:10 PM
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Cool Interesting

Just curious but I loaded DMR to my 436 and would like to contribute. How exactly are you scanning using the 436. Are you using previous information with favorite list or outright scanning directly? DMR is something new to me and came across the update the same day I was researching it for amateur radio use. Decided to buy a key and load up everything. Just curious where to go from here. I am assuming somehow things will trickle down into the radio thru the HPDB list eventually. Just curious as to where and how to setup to find some new channels that the 436 wasn't able to before.
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Old 07-22-2016, 8:26 PM
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Ok so I am assuming everyone is using the giant spreadsheet released and using location lat and long to query local registered DMR sites. Once found they are listing them and naming them. Am I correct in my assumptions? Think I am on the right track. Now I just need to figure out how to enter them into the 436 haha.
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Old 07-22-2016, 9:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtindor View Post
Below is a link to a Google Excel doc. This is my take on things, as of 7/22/2016. You don't have to agree with me at all, but try not to discount my data. I'm the first one to publically note the existence of Network 141 and the 3 control channels from Sites 27/28/29 (although I didn't know where they were). I've been pondering this system from afar for a long time and am going to continue following the progress. I'd like to help out, but already I sense that toes are being stepped on. So, I'll document all my thoughts, findings, etc. elsewhere and anybody can do what they want with that information.
Hey Mike,

Please don't get discouraged. I hope I have not given you that impression. In fact, I was just thinking that I'm excited to have so many people working on this system from different areas -- in your case, even from another state! That is awesome, and we can use the research even if your reception is limited. And who knows, maybe you'll even get some ducting out your way and be able to get some reception of the western sites. My role as a database administrator is to try my best to make sure that the information in the database is as accurate as possible, and I've taken the step to remove some of the assumptions that have been made (including several of my own) in order to keep it accurate. For example, I've removed the references to Hazleton and Easton and am waiting on more confirmation for Newport. It won't take long for those sites to be confirmed. We've only been really hammering at this system hard collectively for a few days and I'm sure that in weeks and months ahead we will have this thing mapped out for sure. Please stay and contribute. I would prefer if all of the monitors actively working on this system would continue to use this thread to combine research as many minds working together can accomplish much.
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Old 07-22-2016, 9:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilligan View Post
If you could get a bearing on that tower and see if it is to your southwest, and not your southeast, I would be inclined to change it to Salisbury Township as you mentioned. The license would match up (although it is licensed as conventional).
I'll see what I can do. If the frequency is truly at the Salisbury site, I do know that is to my southwest. I'm not getting much of anything via DSD+ tonight. I'll let it run from home all day Monday which should give me more info. Regarding the RAS. I had that the first time I ran 502.9375 this evening, when I went back to it after checking 462.1000 for control channel RAS was no longer showing up and hasn't been there since.
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Old 07-23-2016, 7:58 AM
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I knew there was at least one other frequency. Now to discover which frequency it is.

2016/07/23 05:35:58 Group call; TG=2825 RID=2835 Ch=2 3s
2016/07/23 05:36:02 Group call; TG=2825 RID=2831 Ch=2 5s
2016/07/23 05:44:52 Group call; TG=2825 RID=2835 Ch=3 39s
2016/07/23 06:08:03 Group call; TG=2825 RID=2831 Ch=4 23s
2016/07/23 06:31:51 Group call; TG=760 RID=761 Ch=2 7s
2016/07/23 06:31:58 Group call; TG=760 RID=765 Ch=2 6s
2016/07/23 06:46:35 Group call; TG=760 RID=765 Ch=4 18s
2016/07/23 06:52:10 Group call; TG=760 RID=765 Ch=4 13s
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Old 07-23-2016, 8:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sibbley View Post
Ha Ha. I knew there was at least one other frequency. Now to discover which frequency it is.

2016/07/23 05:35:58 Group call; TG=2825 RID=2835 Ch=2 3s
2016/07/23 05:36:02 Group call; TG=2825 RID=2831 Ch=2 5s
2016/07/23 05:44:52 Group call; TG=2825 RID=2835 Ch=3 39s
2016/07/23 06:08:03 Group call; TG=2825 RID=2831 Ch=4 23s
2016/07/23 06:31:51 Group call; TG=760 RID=761 Ch=2 7s
2016/07/23 06:31:58 Group call; TG=760 RID=765 Ch=2 6s
2016/07/23 06:46:35 Group call; TG=760 RID=765 Ch=4 18s
2016/07/23 06:52:10 Group call; TG=760 RID=765 Ch=4 13s
Could be another 454 mhz frequency. Might be a frequency on either the WPMT607 or WPQB585 license.

Wait, I thought you already had the frequencies -- 502.9375 and 461.100. That looks like two frequencies to me.

Mike
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Old 07-23-2016, 8:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtindor View Post
Could be another 454 mhz frequency. Might be a frequency on either the WPMT607 or WPQB585 license.

Wait, I thought you already had the frequencies -- 502.9375 and 461.100. That looks like two frequencies to me.

Mike
I never included the 462.1000 in the 500mhz system before. I will be adding it today and see what happens though. I just never figured that they'd use frequencies from two different band splits on the same system. Certainly seem to be a distinct possibility since I know I have comms for the site on both frequencies.
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Old 07-23-2016, 8:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sibbley View Post
I never included the 462.1000 in the 500mhz system before. I will be adding it today and see what happens though. I just never figured that they'd use frequencies from two different band splits on the same system. Certainly seem to be a distinct possibility since I know I have comms for the site on both frequencies.
If you see references to Network ID 141 and Site 16 on each frequency, then you've got it.

So you're saying:

502.9375 - IS control channel - announces itself as 141-16
462.100 - is NOT control channel - only announces itself as 141-16 with voice comms

Is that right? If so, then they are definitely the same site regardless of the split. Should be easy enough to sit on the actual control channel and determine it's LCN (or LSNs). And then deduce from what is left over what the other LCN (or LSNs) are.

Obviously from what you have shown before, LSN1/2 (LCN 1) is one frequency and LSN3/4 (LCN 2) is another frequency.

Once you've pinned down which frequency is LCN 1 and which is LCN 2, please submit it do the DB so that Gilligan can confirm the frequencies/LCNs on that site. In your submission you should specify the two frequencies, which one is the control channel, and the LCNs assigned to each frequency as well as that it is 141-16.

It sounds like you have all of the information -- just submit to Submit Data to RadioReference

Thanks!

Mike
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Old 07-23-2016, 9:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtindor View Post
If you see references to Network ID 141 and Site 16 on each frequency, then you've got it.

So you're saying:

502.9375 - IS control channel - announces itself as 141-16
462.100 - is NOT control channel - only announces itself as 141-16 with voice comms

Is that right?
Yes that is correct.

Gilligan already has the two frequencies listed in the database under site 16. Or, at least it was that way last night when I looked. He has 502.9375 LCN 1 and 462.1000 LCN 2. I think you are right. I think the information is now in front of me, however, I'd still like to confirm LCN with LCN Finder or LCN Monitor. I all ready know for sure that 502.9375 is LCN 1.
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Old 07-23-2016, 9:52 AM
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Ok, added 462.1000 to my system. Chose Current Activity through RH-536HP mkII. It went quick. I think we can now confirm the two frequencies go together.
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Old 07-23-2016, 10:28 AM
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What does the S2 mean? Slot 2?
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Old 07-23-2016, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
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What does the S2 mean? Slot 2?
Yes, Slot 2.
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