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Multi-State Communications Networks - The purpose of this forum is for discussion of trunked or conventional communications networks that span more than one state. They are local government or commercial in nature. For Federal or Military use the appropriate Topic Specific forum.

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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 04-01-2018, 11:21 AM
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Hi Folks,

Fast forward 8 months. More people are using DSDPlus and now both Whistler TRX-1/2 and Uniden BCD436HP/536HP support NXDN. Might be a good time to dust off things and explore this system some more.

There are somewhere around 14 sites that are online (based upon IE's coverage map) but which aren't listed in the DB. Four of those sites are designated as active on my Google map. Bottom line is that there are plenty of sites out there to find / verify / submit to the DB should anyone be inclined to do so.

* Sunbury is probably the Chulsky PA or the Treverton PA license (or a combination of frequencies from each)
* Mansfield is probably the Wellsboro PA, Jackson Summit PA or Troy PA license (or a combination of frequencies from each)

If you have any questions, just post them.

Thanks
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Last edited by mtindor; 04-01-2018 at 11:44 AM..
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 04-01-2018, 11:55 AM
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I am able to monitor the Sussex site from Branchville .

It seems to work fine.

I looked at the links provided

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...mQU/edit#gid=0


https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=9209

The Branchville (Sussex) site infomation matches from both web pages
and works fine.

Site 11 pecks pond from PA is different in both list .

Does not track properly.

I noticed some of the frequencies for Pecks pond are in the RR database and some are
duplicates of the Sussex site .

Which Web paid should one follow ?

Did not look at other sites .
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Old 04-01-2018, 11:59 AM
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Updated the firmware in my 536 the other day.... ordering the NXDN upgrade soon. Once I do that (and warmer weather arrives so I can sit for more than 30 min in my car where my 536 is) I'll get these IE freqs into my scanner. I know I'm well within range of Pecks Pond and other sites in Pike and Wayne PA.
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Old 04-01-2018, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n2pqq View Post
I looked at the links provided

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...mQU/edit#gid=0


https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=9209

Site 11 pecks pond from PA is different in both list .

Does not track properly.

I noticed some of the frequencies for Pecks pond are in the RR database and some are
duplicates of the Sussex site .
I do not see any frequencies on the Pecks Pond license duplicated on the Branchville license.

I do not see any frequencies in the DB for Pecks Pond that duplicate frequencies in the DB for the Branchville site.

14 freqs are licensed (trunked) for Pecks Pond
6 freqs are licensed (trunked) for Branchville

If the DB shows less, it is just that nobody had confirmed any of the other frequencies on those licenses to be active. If you are using a TRX, you might want to try programming all the freqs for a given site in and see how that works. If you are using a BCD436/536HP you might want to program all the freqs in for a given site and then run LCN Finder on the site and see how many LCNs are verified.

Of course if you use LCN Finder, it totally depends upon the frequencies being in use at some point while you monitor. If you monitor any site on the weekend there is probably less traffic. Best is to monitor any of these sites during daytime M-F, as that's when these types of systems are most active.

Mike
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Old 04-01-2018, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by popnokick View Post
Updated the firmware in my 536 the other day.... ordering the NXDN upgrade soon. Once I do that (and warmer weather arrives so I can sit for more than 30 min in my car where my 536 is) I'll get these IE freqs into my scanner. I know I'm well within range of Pecks Pond and other sites in Pike and Wayne PA.
Sounds good. Just keep in mind that because the Unidens do require proper RAN and channel number (or LCN if you prefer) to track, you will need to have that information entered in.

The LCN Finder on the BCDs works great, but you have to have activity on the site -- enough activity for all of the active frequencies on the site to have had traffic on them during the course of your monitoring. Otherwise the LCN Finder won't "complete". But, even if the LCN Finder doesn't complete, you'll have the option to support any information it finds about the active LCNs (channel numbers) and frequencies.

So far it is working out good for me, on the sites I monitor here in Ohio.

You'll want to have access (in your car) to the full list of freqs licensed for each site. But I guess that is what you meant by putting the frequencies in beforehand. I haven't seen anybody report this yet, but it is possible that you might find (a) 454 mhz frequencies in use on this system, (b) frequencies from conventional licenses used on this system . So far though everything that has been reported was indeed found to be on a corresponding trunked license.

Good luck!
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Old 04-01-2018, 12:19 PM
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Also, for anyone who has the ability to run DSDPlus on a site, please document that RAN that is listed in DSDPlus as you monitor a site's control channel. I am not sure, but I think we are missing some confirmation of RANs on sites. And, if you happen to be monitoring with DSDPlus, please note the list of site neighbors that DSD shows (as well as the channel numbers associated with those sites neighbors) and then post them and/or compare them to what is listed in the DB for site neighbors.

You can see what site neighbors are listed in the DB for a given site by clicking on the actual site name.
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Old 04-01-2018, 12:21 PM
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And, when I get some time this week, I will update the Google Spreadsheet that is referenced early which lists the trunked licenses. I will update that spreadsheet to include the channel number (LCN) for each of the frequencies.

That way, if you want to monitor a site such as Pecks Pond (14 frequencies licensed), you'll have both the frequencies and the channel numbers to program into your scanner and will only need to know the RAN.
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Old 04-01-2018, 8:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtindor View Post
And, when I get some time this week, I will update the Google Spreadsheet that is referenced early which lists the trunked licenses. I will update that spreadsheet to include the channel number (LCN) for each of the frequencies.
I've added the channel numbers aka LCNs to each frequency listed on the licenses on the spreadsheet.

Mike
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Old 04-01-2018, 9:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by popnokick View Post
My receiving location is near the intersection of Monroe, Pike, and Wayne counties. The CC I'm receiving is 463.6875 from Site 10 on Salem Hill in Wayne Co, but may have some others as well-

2017/05/17 09:59:16 L264-10 neighbor: Site L264-7; CC=241
2017/05/17 09:59:16 L264-10 neighbor: Site L264-15; CC=174
2017/05/17 09:59:16 L264-10 neighbor: Site L264-16; CC=795
Per your information above, and upon cross referencing licenses and determining frequencies associated with the channel numbers above, the following sites have been added to the DB.

Not only were they added to the DB because they were listed as neighbors to Preston Park, but also because the ietwoway.com website has listed these three sites as being part of the trunked system ever since last year.
  • Site 7 : 453.0000 : cc ch num 241 : WQRY386 Windsor NY (Broome)
  • Site 15 : 452.1625 : cc ch num 174 : WNGT997 Union Dale PA (Susquehanna)
  • Site 16 : 464.9250 : cc ch num 795 : WPMV813 / WPIV336 / WPJS214 Scranton PA (Lackawanna)

The spreadsheet lists all frequencies / channel numbers for the sites. There are two sites in Scranton, both licensed for 464.925 -- but I'd bet that it's the larger coverage site (Bald Mountain), and that is the one I have entered into the DB. WPMV813 / WPIV336 are the Bald Mountain Scranton site licenses and WPJS214 is the "other" Scranton site license.

Thank you for the research, Pop!
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Last edited by mtindor; 04-01-2018 at 9:52 PM..
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Old 04-01-2018, 9:59 PM
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For this particular system, here is a tip for those of you who can monitor with DSDPlus:

Monitor the control channel of any site, preferably for at least 8 hours between 9 am and 5 pm on a weekday (which is when most activity is likely to occur).

DSDPlus will reveal to you the channel numbers of all of the active repeaters on a given site. Those channel numbers can then be converted into actual frequencies (because this system uses a standard bandplan). And then we can add those active frequencies (and only those active frequencies) to the DB.

If we were to add all of the frequencies licensed for each site to the site, without confirming that they are actually in use, they could potentially cause interference when scanning because some of them may be used for other purposes than this system.

So, let's say you were monitoring Site 16 with DSDPlus, if over a decent period of time it reveals 5 unique channel numbers in use, then if you post / submit those channel numbers we can "convert" them to the corresponding frequencies and add them to the DB.

In a nutshell, all you have to do is monitor the control channel during a busy part of the day, determine the channel numbers in use via DSDplus and post/submit them, and we can then figure out the frequencies for them and add them to the sites in the DB.
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Old 04-02-2018, 4:36 AM
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I also am planning to see if there is correlation among the digitalfrequencysearch.com website data listings for IE/Conway, what I got earlier with DSDPlus, and what I hope to get this week from the new capability of the BCD536.
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Old 04-02-2018, 9:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by popnokick View Post
I also am planning to see if there is correlation among the digitalfrequencysearch.com website data listings for IE/Conway, what I got earlier with DSDPlus, and what I hope to get this week from the new capability of the BCD536.
Do keep in mind a few things:
  • Many companies have licenses with NXDN emissions but are still using analog on those frequencies
  • Many companies do not bother to update their licenses with proper emissions after having switched
  • Based upon what I could see on digitalfrequencysearch.com, Conway/Independence does appear to have updated the vast majority of their licenses to include NXDN emissions -- although that doesn't guarantee the sites on that license are NXDN
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Old 04-12-2018, 3:38 PM
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Finally starting to make some progress with this. My NXDN upgrade is installed and working. But my scanner is in my vehicle and it's been too cold to sit out in the garage punching in systems, sites, and freqs manually. So today was the first time I could spend a little time out there manually entering about 2/3 of the frequencies needed for the entire IE system in the two counties nearest my location. I ran the Analyze function and LCN Finder and found 4 of 27 LCNs on one site, and 1 of 10 on another. So LOTS more time needed for Analyze to run and grab LCNs. The System Status display is showing one of the sites as active and some other details. But more analysis with LCN Finder needed, etc.
Once it completes at least one of the sites I plan to do a "read" with Sentinel and see all what info is available (if anything, since Sentinel doesn't yet support NXDN).
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Old 04-12-2018, 9:06 PM
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Originally Posted by popnokick View Post
Finally starting to make some progress with this. My NXDN upgrade is installed and working. But my scanner is in my vehicle and it's been too cold to sit out in the garage punching in systems, sites, and freqs manually. So today was the first time I could spend a little time out there manually entering about 2/3 of the frequencies needed for the entire IE system in the two counties nearest my location. I ran the Analyze function and LCN Finder and found 4 of 27 LCNs on one site, and 1 of 10 on another. So LOTS more time needed for Analyze to run and grab LCNs. The System Status display is showing one of the sites as active and some other details. But more analysis with LCN Finder needed, etc.
Once it completes at least one of the sites I plan to do a "read" with Sentinel and see all what info is available (if anything, since Sentinel doesn't yet support NXDN).
Sounds like you've been pretty busy. Entering all of those trunked sites / frequencies manually is a real labor of love.

You probably know this, but keep i mind that if you enter 5 frequencies in the scanner will display # of 5 LCNs found, and if you enter in 30 frequencies the scanner will display # of 30 LCNs found. It is easy to get the notion that the scanner knows for a fact that there are 5 or 30 LCNs on the site, but that isn't true. I'm sure that none of those sites are running anywhere near 27 frequencies. I wouldn't spend a huge amount of time sitting on one site trying to get the scanner to finish a complete LCN determination. I think you'd be lucky if the scanner completed an LCN finder session on even the sites with significantly less licensed frequencies.

Just save the LCNs when you are done and move on to the next one. Then when you are in a convenient place, you can go back through and look at each channel and note which ones have a non-zero LCN and mark down those channels as active and note their LCNs.

I had been suggesting to people that they check all the frequencies assigned to a site, but now that you mentioned your LCN finding sessions it made me realize how tedius that might end up being.

I'm sure you will find plenty more, but please don't become disheartened if you never have an LCN finder session complete when scanning all frequencies licensed to the site.

Thanks for the hard work. I'm glad to hear you're achieving success with the LCN finding project.

Mike
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