My BC210XL just doesn't cut-it anymore

[CW-Nevada]

Just join the the board today. I haven't used it since the early 90's. So, I plug it in and programed my favorite feq's (LVMPD & Henderson PD) and find that I can't pick-up any activity in henderson, Metro no problem.

So, I spent most of the day on the web reading about all things new in the scanning world. Wow, what a change! Now I'm all excited about getting a new one.

I like the idea of being able to program the scanner with my PC. Although I favor the Mac OS, I couldn't find much software that supported it. I guess I will be forced to use my PC running XP Home.

I would like to be able to tune-in to the Henderson PD, NHP, Clark Co. Gov., Fire Dept., McCarren . . . The basic stuff.

The big question is: Do I need a Digital Trunk type or will a analog Trunking one do the job?

I wanted to keep the cost down below $300. I found a BC898T on American Electronic Supplies web site for $210. But if I need a digital one, then it would be the BC796D, but it's 2.5x the price @ $550.

Your comments will be much appreciated!

CW

 

[TOUGHLIFE]

Analog Trunking Scanner For Henderson, NV

To receive what you are asking for I would suggest a radio like the new 246T Uniden which does analog trunking as well as conventional. If you are not familiar with this radio I suggest a visit to the Uniden web site so you can read about it. A lot has changed in the greater Las Vegas valley since you last monitored. There is a publication that covers most everything you would want to monitor in this area as it was written for Southern Nevada. It is available at Radio World in Boulder City (294-2666) or at Amateur Electronics Supply in Las Vegas. It is published twice a year and contains a gold mine of knowledge about the public safety systems, local government, hotels & casinos, motor-sports, transit systems, aviation (commercial & military), the new Nellis AFB trunking system, and much more. I would not be without a copy. Take a drive up to radio world or AES and check it out. Ask for the Southern Nevada Radio Scanner Directory. Web sites are known for copying from it because of its accuracy and completeness. Hope this helps you in picking a radio and acquiring up to date frequency and talk group information for a wonderful hobby.

 

[BJ_NORTON]

welcome to the boards!!

You might try the uniden 785. It is a mobile/base scanner that covers pretty much everything. You can listen to the HendersonPD/fire/NHP/Metro/some TV/McCarran/ and the military planes. It is about $330. If I were you I wouldn't buy a scanner that didn't have Alpha tags (you can program a description of the channel). With the hundreds of talkgroups you will soon see, keeping them straight is going to be very difficult. Also I recently saw Radio shack had the pro 95 on sale for around $120. It is a handheld scanner, but it has alpha tags and is PC programmable.

As far as digital, I think Nellis is the only place around here that has digital, and I think that is for base operations, so it might be dificult to hear in Henderson. I don't have anything that does digital, so I don't know what you would hear if you spent the extra buck$

Let us know how things work out, and if we can help with anything (programming can be tricky at first) I'm sure you will have a long line of people willing to help!!

 

[CW-Nevada]

Thanks guys for your advice!

I couldn't wait to read the replies.

I went down to AES this afternoon (Sat) and purchased the 898T and the Southern Nevada Radio Scanner Directory (2004 w/ 3-05 rev) that the salesman (Julio Suarez) suggested. They only had one 898T left, no 796D's and nothing in between.

He mentioned that the 898T didn't have Alpha Tags. But what could I do... I was bug-bit. Once I understood how to program it (conventionally) and started entering the Freq's from the SN directory, I realize the usefulness of having Alpha Tags. Oh well.

Got a bunch more to learn about programing for the Trunks, When I fill comfortable with it, I'll buy some software to manage it some. I remember reading something about the possibility of software being able to add features that don't exist on some scanners while using the PC to control/scan. Hoping to get Alpha Tags during computer scanning sessions.

Thanks Again!

 

[BJ_NORTON]

I know how bad it can be once you want something you have to have it right now. When I got my 780 it was the newest radio on the market. I pre-ordered it a month in advance, and then paid $15 extra to have it overnighted the second they were in the store!

when looking for software check out the strong signals website. Mike Agner KA3JJZ does a great job of keeping track of the current software, and the page is updated frequently. http://www.strongsignals.net/access/content/software.html It looks like there is only 1 program available for the 898T from BuTel. I have never used their software before, but I have heard great things aabout them. Theirs is $39.95 http://www.butelsoftware.com/bc898/bc898.html I believe there are only a handful of radio shack scanners that can be manipulated through software to add features (I think they allow you to program in milair frequencies which cannot be inputted via the keypad).

Too bad about the alpha tags. I have an older radio that would see a lot more use, but it only displays the talkgroup number, and there are just too many talkgroups on the SNACC system to try and memorize. I bet you have this one down already though: 57616-Henderson PD dispatch!!

 

[CW-Nevada]

BJ, you nailed the only talk ID I firmly know "57616". Without the So.NV Directory listings of Talk Group ID's I wouldn't of known.

The manual that came with the 898T is almost useless. I had to visit several websites and read what issues other's were having to get an idea of how to program Talk Group ID's

I have Stongsignals bookmarked. I found a lot of good info their. When I visited Butel's site, I download the instruction manual for any clue that would help me in programing mine, and what hardware that they would require. I found out that they don't recommend any Serial to USB adapter cables except theirs. Hmm.

Well, as you know, I had some success with programing the Trunks w/ Talk Group ID's. I set up bank (J) with the 17-800HHz repeater sites from the So.NV Directory (pg.11). Then assigned the first 10 HPD Talk Group ID's (pg.13). That's all the 898T will allow per bank. It's been a hit and miss ordeal trying to get it to scan the Talk Groups. Sometimes it works, other times while scanning it just scans the repeater's only. It could be user error ; ) Well, I guess it would have to be, because I gave up on reading the manual.

CW

 

[BJ_NORTON]

sounds like you have hit the trunking learning curve pretty much as well as everyone else. It can be very confusing trying to make sense of everything at first.

I set up bank (J) with the 17-800HHz repeater sites from the So.NV Directory (pg.11).

sounds good so far

Then assigned the first 10 HPD Talk Group ID's (pg.13). That's all the 898T will allow per bank.

I looked at unidens website and they claim 1000 talkgroups in banks of ten. I think you may have missed the Bank/SubBank idea. Bank J is where you have the frequencies for the repeater sites stored. When you enter in talk groups you place them in "sub banks" of 10. they might be reffered to like this:

Bank J 1
Bank J 2
Bank J 3
Bank J 4
Bank J 5
Bank J 6
Bank J 7
Bank J 8
Bank J 9
Bank J 10

with each bank holding 10 Talkgroups, and 100 talkgroups total in bank J

Being set up like this you can store talk groups by department, so you don't have to listen to the mindless chatter of animal control all day long, or get stuck with PD calling in license plates while the GVR is burning to the ground.

Bank J 1 Henderson PD talk groups
Bank J 2 Henderson Fire Talkgroups
Bank J 3 Clark County fire talkgroups
Bank J 4 EMS to hospital talkgroups
Bank J 5 so on
Bank J 6 and so forth
Bank J 7
Bank J 8
Bank J 9
Bank J 10

this way when a fire truck goes by you stop scanning by deslecting banks except for J2 and J3, just like you would if you were scanning normally on independent/conventional frequencies.

It's been a hit and miss ordeal trying to get it to scan the Talk Groups. Sometimes it works, other times while scanning it just scans the repeater's only. It could be user error ; )

Sounds like you are forgetting to push and hold in the trunk button. When you push the trunk button for 2 seconds the radio should beep and indicate somehow that it is in trunking mode. This lets the radio know that it needs to trunk track, not scan like it would with regular frequencies. when you first start up the radio or first put the radio into Trunk mode the radio will slowly search all the channels until it finds the control channel. Then it will begin to decode the data stream on the control channel and start following talkgroups.

Does this make sense and ring any bells with what you have read? Sometimes the manuals can assume that the user knows everything, and some are printed assuming you know nothing and they get way too technical for their own good. Both can be frustrating. Very few have common practical examples. I will be happy to help further. I needed some help when I first started, and now it is my turn to help others as they learn.

 

[BJ_NORTON]

One more thing. I would recommend you buy programing/control software ASAP.
1. It will make programming very simple
2. Control software will display alpha tags--something you are already seeing the wisdom of
3. If ever something bad should happen to the radio, or you find the keystrokes to reset the CPU, all of your time spent programing the radio can be restored in seconds.
4. if you travel it is easy to add new info, and then put the old stuff back when you get home
5. ALPHA TAGS!!!
6. some software will automaticlly log new talkgroups--very handy.

 

[CW-Nevada]

Ok, I found a the reference for getting 1000 talkgroups. Uniden calls them "Scan Lists". So, when I set bank (J) as a trunking bank, the scanner automatically sets-up 10 scan lists, 1 list for each bank (A-J), with each list storing a max of 10 ID's. So, with just bank (J) designated as a trunk tracking bank would allow me to store 100 ID's.

The confusing part was when I started entering talkgroups in bank (J), and tried to enter an 11th one, the scanner's LCD would indicate a move from bank (J) to bank (A). I had only set bank (J) for trunking. So I thought that was my limit.

So, to get 1000 talk groups, I would have to set-up all 10 banks as trunking. The scanner would automatically creates 10 scan lists per bank, each capable of holding 10 ID's (100 ID's per bank). So, 10 banks X 100 ID's per bank = 1000 ID's

WOW, that is baffling. I like your description better: 10 sub banks on bank (J), with each sub holding 10 ID's (100 per bank) X 10 banks = 1000. Just seems more logical.


This is how I've been attempting to scan just the ID's on bank (J):

I turn on the scanner. It defaults to scanning bank (A).
**LCD displays: "Bank", "A", "Scan", Ch#/Freq

Ok, I scanning my 25 Freq's for LVMPD

Now I enable bank (J).
**LCD displays: "Bank", "A", "J", Scan", "M", Ch#/Freq or Ch#/ Rptr. Freq.

The "M" only shows if it picks up something on bank (J).
Ok, on bank (J) I just see the Repeater Feq's. This seems logical.

Now, I want to scan just the talkgroups on bank (J). I disable bank (A)
**LCD displays: "Bank", "J", "Scan", "M", Ch#/Rptr. Freq.

##### Wait a second #####

I think I just discovered problem. Once, when I was scanning bank (J) and just listening to just the Ch#/Freg., their was this one channel that stopped and held-up the scan, nothing but noise. I found that if I push the "Data" key it would continue the search after a couple of seconds. But if I push the "L/O" it would lock the channel out completely. So, when I push the "Trunk" button while still in scan mode; no talkgoups would come up , even though LCD would indicate that it was "Trunk Scanning".

Well that channel contained the Feq. 860.4375. So, I realized that this could be one of those "Control Channels" your referred too.

SUCCESS!! After unlocking that channel trunk scan w/ talkgoups work.

I'm going to follow your recommendations, and get some software. Once I get a serial cable I'll download a couple of demos.

Thanks BJ
CW

 

[BJ_NORTON]

Good, sound like you have it working again.

The "M" only shows if it picks up something on bank (J).
Ok, on bank (J) I just see the Repeater Feq's. This seems logical.

the "M" most likely indicates that the radio is trunking a Motorola system. "E" or "ED"would be for EDACS, "MO" might also show up on some radios for Motorola, and "L" or "LTR" for LTR type systems.

But if I push the "L/O" it would lock the channel out completely. So, when I push the "Trunk" button while still in scan mode; no talkgoups would come up , even though LCD would indicate that it was "Trunk Scanning".

It's been a hit and miss ordeal trying to get it to scan the Talk Groups. Sometimes it works, other times while scanning it just scans the repeater's only.

put together these two statements make perfect sense. Many trunked systems will rotate the CC (Control Channel) through all or some of the system repeater frequencies. SNACC seems to rotate through 4 and swithches overy 12 hours or so. If you locked one CC out that means once every 2 days for 12 hours the radio is searching for a CC and, because it doesn't find one scans the channels conventionally.

I did the same thing once though. I hit L/O accidently while programming alpha tags on to the repeater frequencies ie, SNACC 1; SNACC2; SNACC 3... and somewhere along the way I locked out the control channel. It took me about an hour to figure what I had done.

You should read through this article on trunkning from the Wiki. It will take a lot of the voo-doo majic out of trunk tracking. I think understanding the basic concepts will get you ahead of the curve :wink:

 

[CW-Nevada]

I purchased Butel's software and beginning to program in NHP for southern Nevada. As far-as I can tell, from other post on this forum and the SNRS Directory; NHP is on the NV Shared Radio System. Which uses EDACS Trunking.

When I check the SNC Directory it shows that Sunrise Mountain has (15) different Channel Numbers & Frequencies, and a note states that: they should be entered in LCN order. But the Channel (11) Freq. "856.2375" is less than Channel (4)'s Freq. "856.4875".

I checked the SNRS Directory's data against Radioreference's directory page.

http://www.radioreference.com/modules.php?name=TRSDB&sid=706

They both are the same. Dose that mean LCN only requires that specific Freq.'s be entered in specific Channels?

Or, is it that I'm just completely confused?
:?

CW

 

[TOUGHLIFE]

Programming of an EDACS System

You only need to enter the frequencies in the order given in the Southern NV Radio Scanner Directory for the Sunrise Mtn. site of the SHARED radio system. It makes no difference if one frequency is higher or lower than the next. This is required to properly track the talk groups on the system.

Happy listening.

 

[CW-Nevada]

Thanks for that clarification.