BLM Carson Dist. Re-numbering

[firefighterbiddle]

Hello all

For as long as I can remember the BLM's Carson Dist. has used 39xx as identifiing on their engines. But that seems to have changed, according to Sierra Fronts WildCAD.
B3323 CCD BLM Doyle Station (BDOY)
B3333 CCD BLM Palomino Valley Station (BPAL)
B3361 CCD BLM Fish Springs Station (BCAR)
B3362 CCD BLM Carson Station (BCAR)
B3424 CCD BLM Doyle Station (BDOY)
B3435 CCD BLM Palomino Valley Station (BPAL)
B3463 CCD BLM Carson Station (BCAR)
B3464 CDD BLM (BCAR)
B3934 CCD BLM
B3946 CCD BLM Carson Station
B3968 CCD BLM Carson Station

These are viewable at Current Fire Activity in the Sierra Front under the wildweb tab. Forest Service identifiers appear to be the same as last season with 71xx as Carson Ranger Dist. and 72xx as Bridgeport Ranger Dist.

[Exsmokey]

We are fortunate that all five dispatch centers in Nevada are on WildWeb. In reviewing all of them it looks like the Central Nevada dispatch center provides the best clues as they are the only other center to have made changes in their engine numbering.

'The first number is obviously the district number. It looks like the second number is the engine type so 3324 is a Type 3 engine and 3424 is a Type 4 engine. The third number appears to be a battalion number as it seems to line up geographically with the numbers 2, 3, and 6. Now that leaves the exception of 39xx engines. They are certainly not a Type 9 engine! We used to joke that if a small patrol engine was a Type 7, then a bicycle with a bladder bag would be a Type 8, and a person carrying a bladder bag on their back would be a Type 9 engine. Anyway I can't figure out these. When looking at the Central Nevada resource listing the Winnemucca District (#2) has made this numbering change but the Battle Mountain District (#6) has not. Interesting that there are different protocols in one dispatch center. How's that for clarity?

The other exception on the list of engines are those that are based in California, as shown quartered in Topaz and Bridgeport. The system in California is that the first number is the 3 stands for the California State Office (one of twelve that are numbered alphabetically), the second number refers to the District (1 Bakersfield, 2 Northern California, and 6 California Desert District), the third number is the engine type, and the fourth is the unit number. At one time, when this numbering protocol was devised in California it was proposed that it be the standard protocol nationwide. Other BLM State Offices didn't like it and now we have a mishmash of numbering systems. Taking a look at dispatch centers in other states on WildWeb shows the very disparate apparatus numbering systems presently employed.

It appears that the U.S. Forest Service, BLM, National Park Service, and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service all have unit designator systems that vary widely, some even in the same state and/or regional office. If a nationwide command system (ICS) is used and a common clear text is employed, why are there so many different unit designator systems in place?

[firefighterbiddle]

Good detective work, my eye didnt catch that! Thanks Exsmokey

[firefighterbiddle]

Looks like the HTF (Humboldt-Toyiabe NF) has follwed suite. They have gone from the 71XX and 72XX to 41X and 42X system. The only thing I can figure is the 4 stands for the type-4 engine that they use. The second digit is What Ranger Dist. they are stationed in 1 being the Carson Dist and 2 being the Bridgeport Dist.
Engine-411 Woodland Station
Engine-412 Woodland Station
Engine-413 Stead Station
Engine-415 Markleeville Station
Engine-416 Markleeville Station
Engine-417 Jacks Valley/ Genoa Station
Engine-423 Bidgeport Station
All chief officers and patrols are still using the 71XX and 72XX system.

[Exsmokey]

Add B621, a Type 6 engine stationed in Bridgeport, as listed on the WildWeb CAD for the Sierra Front Interagency Dispatch Center. Then for some unknown reason B7233 is listed with the older numbering system. The B stands for brush, something the BLM and the Forest Service have done to be compatible with NDF. NDF used to be the rural fire district on the Sierra Front with structural engines, which were called Engines (Type 1 and Type 2) and wildland engines (Type 3 and above) are called Brush.

Complicating this matter is that Region 5 of the Forest Service still calls Type 6 engines (National convention) Type 4's. Region 5 does not use national Type 4's. Region 5 has very few Type 6 (national) engines, except many of their patrols have enough water pump capacity to be typed as 6's instead of 7's, which is the standard patrol engine is most locations. Region 5 calls these 6's, 4's. Pretty confusing isn't it!

Having the engine type listed as the first number is used in much of Region 4 (Intermountain Region which the Humboldt-Toiyabe is located in) and Regions 2 (Rocky Mountain) and 1 (Northern Rockies). It looks like Region 4 might be standardizing its engine designators and this could be the reason why the Humboldt-Toiyabe has changed theirs.

In Region 5 no attempt to distinguish engine types is made when assigning designators, but it really isn't very important as most R5 engines are Type 3's anyway. I like the R5 designator system as it is simple and based on the location of fire stations, like a county/local fire department. On most of the Forests non-fire units are designated as to function such as "Recreation," "Lands," "Resources" and "Timber." I wish a system was adopted Forest Service and BLM nationwide so we didn't have such a mis-mash of designators being used.

P.S. Thanks Scott for alerting us to this change. I would have been very confused to hear engines with a 4xx designator on the Bridgeport Ranger District, figuring they were brought in from another place.

[smokeybehr]

Originally Posted by Exsmokey

Add B621, a Type 6 engine stationed in Bridgeport, as listed on the WildWeb CAD for the Sierra Front Interagency Dispatch Center. Then for some unknown reason B7233 is listed with the older numbering system. The B stands for brush, something the BLM and the Forest Service have done to be compatible with NDF. NDF used to be the rural fire district on the Sierra Front with structural engines, which were called Engines (Type 1 and Type 2) and wildland engines (Type 3 and above) are called Brush.

Complicating this matter is that Region 5 of the Forest Service still calls Type 6 engines (National convention) Type 4's. Region 5 does not use national Type 4's. Region 5 has very few Type 6 (national) engines, except many of their patrols have enough water pump capacity to be typed as 6's instead of 7's, which is the standard patrol engine is most locations. Region 5 calls these 6's, 4's. Pretty confusing isn't it!

Now you understand one of the divides between FIRESCOPE and National typing. Here we are trying to have a comon language through the use of ICS/IMS and the 310-1 FOG, and there's still disparities.