Controller Asleep at Reno Tahoe International

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com501

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This isn't really a big deal. Pilots actually prefer uncontrolled airports (at least I do) and at Reno at night there ISN'T any traffic.

That being said, this is an FAA management problem, they have slashed workers while continuing to have an over bloated management staff in order to stay within their budget.

Perhaps we need to rethink how many managers there are at the FAA??
 

Jay911

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Everyone's looking to crucify the ATC on duty when we don't know how much time he was working prior to this shift, if he had rest, etc. Pilots and truckers etc are mandated x hours of rest in the y hours preceding their shifts. Do ATCs have the same stipulation?

Everyone knows that an air traffic controller's job is one of the highest-stress occupations there is. If there have been cutbacks in staffing (and it's hard to assume there hasn't been, in this day and age), could this guy have been on the butt end of a double-overtime shift, or have had such a tour prior to this incident?

All of my argument presumes this was an accidental nodding off. If it wasn't and in fact he was deliberately dozing on duty (as I think I heard about recently at another site, where some guy actually brought bedding with him into the cab) then all bets are off.
 

com501

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Two shifts day, two shifts night, one day off, rinse and repeat. Not a pretty sight for adequate rest...
 

zob-slantzero

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Two evening shifts, followed by two day shifts and back in for the midnight. Supposed to be 8 hours between any two shifts, but, dosen't count travel time back and forth from home. I had an 8.5 hour break between my day shift and midnight shift.
 

sigint1

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This isn't really a big deal. Pilots actually prefer uncontrolled airports (at least I do) and at Reno at night there ISN'T any traffic.

That being said, this is an FAA management problem, they have slashed workers while continuing to have an over bloated management staff in order to stay within their budget.

Perhaps we need to rethink how many managers there are at the FAA??

I have to wonder that had it been you that was the patient on that flight that you would have thought it "wasn't a big deal" - I also take exception to your emphasis that there "ISN'T" any traffic at that time of night - agreed it is minimal but there are general aviation, air cargo, as will as military opertions all night long - as well as possible emergency diverts of commerical aircraft during those hours (which has happened on more than one occasion) - I will be the first to agree it is a FAA management problem but considering this was a Lifeguard flight I feel it was a more serious issue that you are trying to make it out as - just my two cents - and kudus to the the pilot whose experience allowed him to initiate the alternate procedures and get his patient down and thus to a hospital.
 

Jay911

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kudus to the the pilot whose experience allowed him to initiate the alternate procedures

As in "RNO traffic, this is medevac N12345, making approach runway 12"?

I don't mean to downplay the seriousness of this, but an "uncontrolled" landing (in the command sense, not in the actual flight control sense) happens thousands of times per day at airports all over the world.
 

jeremyzone

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It makes sense that an air traffic controller would be bored on a night shift at an airport with limited traffic. I don't want to encourage more sleeping ATCs, but wouldn't it make sense for them to buy a scanner with an alert function? On my uniden bc346xt, I can set an alert for a talkgroup or conventional channel. I can set the volume of the alert independent of the scanner volume and I can set the tone itself. Scanners aren't that expensive, especially for conventional channels
 

com501

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Turns out that after that first incident weeks ago back east, RNO had two controllers at night the very next day.

Shortly before this incident, management up the food chain pulled the second controller claiming they had developed 'alternate procedures'. Really, a Sealy Posturepedic perhaps?:mad:
 

com501

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As in "RNO traffic, this is medevac N12345, making approach runway 12"?

I don't mean to downplay the seriousness of this, but an "uncontrolled" landing (in the command sense, not in the actual flight control sense) happens thousands of times per day at airports all over the world.

Aviate, Navigate, Communicate.

He was talking to the other traffic in the area AND to NORCAL, so really, although bad PR, it isn't that major an incident. Now, if the runway was closed, that might have been bad, but, oh wait, they have these trucks with a giant 12 foot tall lighted X that they park at each end, and it blinks to let people know that if all else fails and the guy is just flying blind, the runway is closed.
 

WA1ATA

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A few years ago there was a wave of press reports about swimmers being bitten by sharks. Then it turns out that the number shark bites that year were fewer than normal.

Is this really a sudden wave of controllers falling asleep, or has this been a fairly common occurrence that has just now gotten wide publicity?

My bet is that the rate of controllers falling asleep on duty isn't what changed.
 

KD9KSO

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For these towers with little to no traffic during the overnight hours they should just close the tower at 2200-0600.

The nearest radar facility can handle the flight until within the ATA and then announce the landing on the CTAF.

This is how St. Louis Downtown Parks has operated for years and it works just fine. They have (or had) up to about six movements during the overnight hours.
 

petnrdx

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I don't want to appear that I am stirring the pot, and that is not my intent but...
I think there is a problem with the scheduling and staffing by the FAA.
But I would also think this is like the shark bite issue above.
I can't imagine that its that good of a job, but some folks must love it.
As for the REAL safety impact.
That is debatable.
Pretty likely the medic flight landed to pick this patient up at a completely "uncontrolled" airport.
That is BY FAR the most common. My guess is there are 25 or more airports without a tower for every one that has one.
I only flew a couple thousand hours in helicopters primarily in WA, and little in OR, and very little in ID.
And a single long cross country from Minnesota to Seattle.
Nearly all the airports we used had no tower or it was not open at night ( when we flew the most ).
And if you look, many towers close as early as 2000 hrs. local. Probably 2230 is the most common.
Even places you might think required 24 hr control. Like Renton ( where 737's are built ) or Paine Field ( where 747's etc are built ). Grant county ( one of the longest runways in the country 13,500 ft ).
I will say that they either need to list the airport tower as closed or properly staff it.
We were based at Boeing Field.
It would be interesting to know just how many towers there are nationwide that are 24 hr.
Anybody happen to know that one? I am curious.
I am going to make a USWAG (Un-Scientific Wild *** Guess ) maybe 100.
Somebody must know.
 
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