Pending central Nevada aviation microwave backhaul

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gariac

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File numbers 0005776451 0005775496 0005775497 0005776453

Locations:
N38 33 56.4 W118 01 55.6 MVA (Mina) VOR site
N37 42 22.5 W116 20 06.1 Cedar Peak on the Nevada Test and Training Range (restricted airspace)
N38 08 28.4 W117 12 02.8 Tonopah Radar site
N38 05 57.4 W117 11 12.9 Booker Mountain (VHF air facility)

The links are called either RCAG(remote communications air-ground) or MODES (presumably mode-s).

Since the Mina RCAG exists, maybe this is a back up link or an upgrade of some sort.

While I know what mode-s is, why they want to ship it around is a good question.

I have no idea what civilian ATC hardware is on Cedar Peak. I though the peak was just a comm site and used in Red Flag/ Weapons School scoring.
 

com501

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All the Mode S data is going back to NorCal along with Predator tracking so they can maintain separation.
 

gariac

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You may have a point there on the predator. Based on a recent crash, they have been flying those things more outside the range than I suspected. But mode-s isn't position data. That would be ADS-B.

But who in Norcal? Tonopah is where several sectors meet: Oakland, LA, and SLC. So are you saying they are sending the mode-s back to Oakland. But in any event, the Tonopah radar site combined with Bald Mountain should already have the mode-s data. Mode-s isn't useful without the radar track, and I really can't see the USAF resorting to MLAT when they have direct access to radar.
 

com501

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Norcal doesn't see everything USAF sees. The transponder data is an overlay. The backup microwave is being tied together for several locations, including the range control backups in San Diego. Tracking data is already uploaded, but the Mode S is an overlay for primary returns to identify mostly commercial aircraft and aircraft actually squawking. Some aircraft, as you know, do NOT squawk.
 

gariac

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Do you have any reference on this? Also, do you mean ads-b rather than mode-s? Mode-s by itself without radar isn't particularly useful.
 

com501

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Mode S as being implemented will provide several new parameters in enhanced surveillance mode, including pilot selected altitude as entered in the flight management system, TCAS information, barometric vertical rate, magnetic heading, roll angle, true track angle and track angle rate, as well as aircraft calculated true ground speed, indicated air speed and mach number. The is completely separate from the GPS based ADS-B information.

This will also apply to UAVs in the controlled airspace environment, leading to improved controller awareness and better traffic spacing. Europe has already implemented a great many of the enhanced Mode S capabilities.

In addition, the increased bandwidth and new equipment will have full Mode 5 capability.
 

gariac

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All interesting, but of course all completely undocumented and thus unverifiable.

Sticking to verifiable information, there is nothing to indicate this set up is being done for UAVs. In fact, reading the FCC chatter, there is a desire to get all backhaul up to less useful bands, like traditional 6 and 11 GHz. I suspect that is all that is going on here, unless these is evidence to the contrary. Ultimately the feds will give up L band to commercial users since there is money to be made, and the traditional users of L and perhaps S are not that great in number. I recall a document to vacate 1755 to 1830MHz (or thereabouts).

For this system:
ULS Application - Microwave Industrial/Business Pool - 0005775496 - Harris Corporation - Administration

Check out the document labeled "supplemental". Perhaps this link will work:
ULS Application - Microwave Industrial/Business Pool - 0005775496 - Harris Corporation - Administration

They show a basic 4 site system, just as I have outlined in the original post.

I have search pending backhauls can find none like this in California.
 

com501

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Mode S will continue to be in use well into 2025 and beyond. Most of this system is already on fiber, except for those places out here in Nevada where there isn't any, where I work.
 

com501

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Well, if you mean the 'game' of making my bizjet lease more expensive every year by adding more crap in the cockpit and requiring more expensive and frequent maintenance intervals, I agree.
 

gariac

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No, the game is to provide some documentation to verify your statements. Now much of radioreference is based on intercepts. Thus your documentation is you heard the signal. No problem there.

Now if some entity has applied for a license, I indicate the where said data can be found. This adds credibility to my post.

It may be these new links are for UAVs, but I find nothing to indicate this, and you have provided no documentation to support your claim.

That is how the game is played. I try very hard to keep my postings accurate. I use government resources when possible.
 

com501

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The entity I work for prohibits the providing of documentation. When it becomes published on the Internet then I will post it. Otherwise, its an internal document. The rest of the week, I'm busy installing transponders in range target aircraft and verifying they talk to range control. I'll check back later over the weekend.

If you are in the area, I'll let you know what I'm squirting and when, you can monitor our beacon and verify the data yourself.
 

gariac

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Personally I rather have no post than some cryptic message with little utility. If he has to wait to post, then wait to post. I don't have a problem with that. The non-replies are a waste of bandwidth.
 

bfperez

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Personally I rather have no post than some cryptic message with little utility. If he has to wait to post, then wait to post. I don't have a problem with that. The non-replies are a waste of bandwidth.

Agreed.
 

com501

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Well, you can read between the lines, study the documents available on what the EU is doing with enhanced Mode S, look at what the military is doing with Mode 5 IFF and draw your own conclusions, or you can traipse on down here, open the file cabinets and go crazy with your UNCLAS stamp if you think you can get away with it.

Personally, I think the weather in Kansas in the winter time sucks.

Have a nice weekend. I've got a deployment. Bye!
 
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