Motorola Files Court Action Against M/A Com

[TOUGHLIFE]

A comment this evening on TV 3 by the Review Journal columnist, John L. Smith says that Motorola is most upset at the awarding of the new radio system contract to M/A Com and has filed a law suit in federal court over the matter. As a result it could be a long time before construction of any new 800 MHz TRS begins for the LVMPD. It is the opinion of this RR member that it would be more efficient and cheaper if Metro PD had simply joined the existing Clark County TRS which is Motorola and simply pay for the upgrades needed to support their radio traffic but I suspect that Metro wants total control over the system regardless of the expense to the Nevada taxpayer. Enough said about that for now.

 

[oregontreehugger]

Ahh... the big boys couldn't play in the sandbox together. What a shame. :twisted:

 

[TOUGHLIFE]

In the Friday edition of the Review Journal Newspaper dated 01-13-2006, John L. Smith writes, "Among many issues, Motorola alleges that it was not informed of substantive changes of the bidding process. Representatives of M/A COM, however were informed of the changes the suit alleges. A hearing on a request for a preliminary injunction is scheduled for Tuesday."

Personally, I hope Motorola prevails. Monitoring the new TRS might be a lot easier depending upon different factors.

 

[trailhiker30]

I hope this new system will be a benfit to the officers, the taxpayers and scanner listners like myself. I wonder what the cost would've been if Metro had joined the Clark County TRS and upgraded the sysytem to include Analog and Digital? Does anybody think that Metro will keep the dispatch channels clear if they continue to go with M/A COM? If you look at the EDACS system in Albuquerque, those channels are open and everything else is encrypted. I don't know if you can compare the two cities but I sure hope something posisitve will come from this.

 

[gccflscan]

This is the same antics M/ACom has been pulling since the State of FL debacle and they continue to roll on with these shady back room deals to shaft the SAFETY of the USERS & PUBLIC.

I for one hope they get put in their place and held accountable for their actions. Now in reality this will nevery happen.

I am not a fan boy for either company and not real impressed with shoving digital this and that down clueless buyers throtes. I am not even a big fan of trunking, it has its time and place, as does KISS convetional systems.

Both companies are quilty of promising the world, one a little more than the other, but still guilty.

To the states: HIRE SOME PEOPLE TO REVIEW THIS STUFF that HAVE A CLUE! For once! NOT CONSULTANTS. More paid off people is not what is needed.

 

[N_Jay]

. . .
To the states: HIRE SOME PEOPLE TO REVIEW THIS STUFF that HAVE A CLUE! For once! NOT CONSULTANTS. More paid off people is not what is needed.

Now that is funny!!! :evil: :roll:

The states should "hire some people" who know what they are doing to review the systems they buy once every XX years, but "not consultants" who review this stuff all the time? :roll: :roll:

Get a clue dude. Why not hire consultants who know what they are doing! :wink:

 

[gccflscan]

Now that is funny!!! :evil: :roll:

The states should "hire some people" who know what they are doing to review the systems they buy once every XX years, but "not consultants" who review this stuff all the time? :roll: :roll:

Get a clue dude. Why not hire consultants who know what they are doing! :wink:

Simple I've been through this enough to know . . . . . . . .

CONSULTANTS and the COMPANY are in "co-hoots".

These state "technology offices" need to have employees qualified to do the job, these are the poeple I am talking about hiring. Consultants need not apply.

The whole reason the Republik of FL is in the mess with the EDACS systems is 1000% POLITICAL from the top down. The people who came to review performance of the system had no clue how trunking works, what EDACS was v. LTR, and on and on...

Consultants cost BIG $$$ which agencies DON'T HAVE. The WHOLE PURPOSE of these "technology offices" is to stop wasting money on consultants.

If and ONLY IF the consultants hired work 100% for the state and totally stand tall to the vendor be it MA/Com or Motorola or Bubbas Radio or any one else. FINE, but I've been there done that... The consultants and the vendor are wining and dining it up things just get worse.

 

[N_Jay]

Simple I've been through this enough to know . . . . . . . .

CONSULTANTS and the COMPANY are in "co-hoots".

These state "technology offices" need to have employees qualified to do the job, these are the poeple I am talking about hiring. Consultants need not apply.

The whole reason the Republik of FL is in the mess with the EDACS systems is 1000% POLITICAL from the top down. The people who came to review performance of the system had no clue how trunking works, what EDACS was v. LTR, and on and on...

Consultants cost BIG $$$ which agencies DON'T HAVE. The WHOLE PURPOSE of these "technology offices" is to stop wasting money on consultants.

If and ONLY IF the consultants hired work 100% for the state and totally stand tall to the vendor be it MA/Com or Motorola or Bubbas Radio or any one else. FINE, but I've been there done that... The consultants and the vendor are wining and dining it up things just get worse.

Well being as the only technology that States buy on a regular basis is IT, then you are likely to have a department full of people who STILL know nothing about radio. :roll:

Yes, there are bad consultants out there. And, YES there are states who give the radio contract to a IT consultant just because he is already under contract. :roll:

But, if you want it don't right you need to spend some time finding and interviewing your consultant. Then you can have a whole staff of radio experts (that you could not afford internally) working on your projects.

AND DON"T FORGET!!!!
If you have a political structure trying to acquire the system for political ends, even the best consultant (or internal expert) can not assure of less then a POLITICAL solution. :evil:

P.S. When you are up against a situation like this, sometimes the consultant can help defuse the political drivers (if hey are informed, and contracted to do just that!) :wink: :wink:

P.P.S. Been a consultant, Been a customer, Been a Vendor, and seen all sides! :wink:

 

[TOUGHLIFE]

It's unfortunate that the decision makers within Clark County government know very little about radio communications. As with other projects they don't really care how much money they are spending on any given project as the taxpayers are footing the bill, one way or another. It seems to me it would be more financially wise for the LVMPD to pay the upgrade costs to the existing SNACC system and use it as most of the infrastructure is already in place but this is too logical for governmental bureaucrats. Enough said.

 

[gccflscan]

Well being as the only technology that States buy on a regular basis is IT, then you are likely to have a department full of people who STILL know nothing about radio. :roll:

Trust me I know. This office can't even handle IT, staples may be too high tech for them.

States operate a wide variety of technology and need to have staff who are qualified in the field(s) to over see the selection, purchase, installation etc. of these systems. Unfortunately its ALL POLITICAL. This is NOT the "real" agenda/intention of these offices. The goal is to SAVE or CUT MONEY and get the cheapest deal. This is not necessarily what works, but is CHEAP!

Tyco (any one but me remember when Tyco was the name of TOY COMPANY? ? ) found a way to promise the world and get a MAJOR deal. The plans for FL sound great on paper, and on paper is where alot of the goals of this system are going to stay.

Tyco/MA-Com is PROMISING the WORLD on the CHEAP to agencies to get deals. Motorola is not going to win when M/ACom is intentionally low balling things. I mean lets be serious $3 Billion to create a statewide network in NY ? ? ? Not even close $10+Billion and I would belive it. Upstate NY and the terrain foliage and 800MHz you spend $3B in that area alone to get PUBLIC SAFETY level communications. (My definition of PS comms is 99.999% (5 nines, sigma (terms unknown to MA/Com)) coverage on a portable in digital mode on a belt max 3ft. high with no speaker antenna. Peoples lives depend on this stuff not just the field units but the public so its no longer acceptable to mickey mouse it.

Coverage and the cost is what got Motorola in hot water in FL. Then Tyco Toys jumped into the fray.

 

[N_Jay]

Trust me I know. This office can't even handle IT, staples may be too high tech for them.

States operate a wide variety of technology and need to have staff who are qualified in the field(s) to over see the selection, purchase, installation etc. of these systems. Unfortunately its ALL POLITICAL. This is NOT the "real" agenda/intention of these offices. The goal is to SAVE or CUT MONEY and get the cheapest deal. This is not necessarily what works, but is CHEAP!

Tyco (any one but me remember when Tyco was the name of TOY COMPANY? ? ) found a way to promise the world and get a MAJOR deal. The plans for FL sound great on paper, and on paper is where alot of the goals of this system are going to stay.

Tyco/MA-Com is PROMISING the WORLD on the CHEAP to agencies to get deals. Motorola is not going to win when M/ACom is intentionally low balling things. I mean lets be serious $3 Billion to create a statewide network in NY ? ? ? Not even close $10+Billion and I would belive it. Upstate NY and the terrain foliage and 800MHz you spend $3B in that area alone to get PUBLIC SAFETY level communications. (My definition of PS comms is 99.999% (5 nines, sigma (terms unknown to MA/Com)) coverage on a portable in digital mode on a belt max 3ft. high with no speaker antenna. Peoples lives depend on this stuff not just the field units but the public so its no longer acceptable to mickey mouse it.

Coverage and the cost is what got Motorola in hot water in FL. Then Tyco Toys jumped into the fray.

Now you have me confused? :roll: :roll:

You say they should hire "experts" but not as consultants, only as employees.

But, they will never have enough work for them to become or stay and expert.

Then you say it is all political; Then it is all about cost? (I have seen both, and they are rarely the same thing.

As for you 99.999% reliability. You have obviously NEVER done any radio propagation analysis.

Maybe NV and FL have done it wrong, or maybe they have done it right, but what you have proposed is no more, and sounds a lot less right! :roll: :evil:

 

[northzone]

What is interesting about this whole thing is over two years ago in the State of Nevada "Communications Interoperability Strategic Plan" which I have in front of me, they said that Metro Police would have a 700mhz Open Sky System (M/A Com). How did they know that two years before bidding it out?

By the way, if it is Open Sky that means no one will be listening with a scanner.

 

[TOUGHLIFE]

It is interesting to notice that the LVMPD recently applied for and was issued numerous licenses for 800 MHz freqs. for a TRS and nothing for 700 MHz. The case in court will have its first proceeding on Tuesday, Jan. 17th.

 

[TOUGHLIFE]

Yesterday, Jan. 17th, a federal judge in U.S. District Court refused to grant a restraining order that would have temporarily barred the LVMPD from awarding an $8.9 million contract to M/A Com. However the matter will go to trial before the Court starting on Feb. 2nd and is expected to last two days.

 

[BJ_NORTON]

Wonder if anybody else read John L. SMiths op-ed in the RJ the other day. He seems to miss the whole point of wasting money on a brand new system when there is already a perfectly good one to use. But the interesting poin that he makes is this:

Officials made it clear in the original Request For Proposal in July that they were seeking to upgrade the radio infrastructure in two phases. High on their list of priorities was interoperability with a capability of serving approximately 6,000 users. They wanted flexible radio equipment that "shall be capable of usage with Subscriber equipment from multiple manufacturers. Instead of being limited to only the successful respondent to the RFP," according to the lawsuit. That's called "open architecture," as opposed to an exclusive or proprietary system that shuts out the competition.

and continues:

Motorola, which must be feeling outfoxed by the competition, is putting up a struggle for an obvious reason: It claims giving M/A-COM the initial contract will effectively award it a second, far more lucrative deal because of the company equipment's proprietary nature, violating the original intent of the RFP. And that eventually will mean M/A-COM will be able to charge more for its radio equipment, Motorola claims.

which suggests that an Open Sky sytem is out of the question . I guess the question I have is, can you buy a motorla trunking radio or an EDACS trunking radio from someone other than Motorola or M/A Comm? If you can that seems to satisfy the multiple vendor rule

 

[edgeman]

So with Motorola not getting the contract, what type of trunked system is going to end up using?

 

[N_Jay]

So with Motorola not getting the contract, what type of trunked system is going to end up using?

Could be EDACS, P25 or OpenSky.

 

[Radio_Cowboy]

My Question is..... Why are they even interested in going to a 800mhz trunked system? I thought Metro was perfectly happy with the VHF hiband repeater system they currently have and did not want to go to a trunked system......?



-RC-

 

[TOUGHLIFE]

LVMPD & Trunking

My Question is..... Why are they even interested in going to a 800mhz trunked system? I thought Metro was perfectly happy with the VHF hiband repeater system they currently have and did not want to go to a trunked system......?



-RC-

Might be because some high priced M/A Com salesman sold them a bill of goods that they do not really need. After all the manufacturer is in business to make money at the expense of others whether the purchaser needs the system or not. The current system that the LVMPD currently uses does have patch capability so that when they wish to communicate with other agencies on other systems they can do so as they have done during many prior events which required it.

 

[SCPD]

Might be because some high priced M/A Com salesman sold them a bill of goods that they do not really need. After all the manufacturer is in business to make money at the expense of others whether the purchaser needs the system or not. The current system that the LVMPD currently uses does have patch capability so that when they wish to communicate with other agencies on other systems they can do so as they have done during many prior events which required it.

I have the same thoughts at times. It seems like going to 800 MHz trunked systems is very trendy and sales people are capitalizing on this trend or have actually created it themselves. It appears that after one agency (especially a large one) installs an 800 MHz trunked system that others start following suit in order to gain interoperability. Many of these areas had interoperability to begin with or could have improved it without going to an 800 MHz system. Trunked 800 MHz system don't seem to make any sense in mountainous rural areas, but I often see them being implemented in those areas. It would also seem that the radios are complicated enough to operate that the users may have some trouble utilizing the system's potential (B deck, Zone 3, and all of the ways of arranging talk groups). I had enough trouble teaching new employees how to use a 16 channel radio with an external tone box.

It would seem like the manufacturers are trying to ride this trendy wave as long as they can.