WPPF224 Nashua NH rebanding started!

[n1das]

Tonight I found rebanding has begun on Nashua's 800MHz Motorola trunked system.

System callsign: WPPF224
Site ID: 7C25

Old primary control channel: 868.4500 ** DEAD ** No longer in use.
NEW control channel: 853.4500

The voice channels haven't changed yet, so current scanners (and Nashua's radios) can still trunk track properly. I'm hearing again on my Uniden BCD396T and RS Pro-96 scanners.

Earlier tonight I noticed Nashua's system was strangely quiet on my scanners over the last day or so....way too quiet. I last heard units on the system yesterday (Thursday) morning. I found the system was no longer transmitting on the primary control channel (868.4500) or the backup control channel (868.2625). I found the backup control channel a couple of years ago when 868.45 died once. Tonight I found BOTH were dead and the CC data nowhere to be found in the 866-869 MHz range.

I did a quick search in the 800 band and found them again on 853.4500. I found it with my 396T and with CC Only mode = ON. My scanner correctly ID'd is as a Motorola system and displayed "Nashua" as the system name. I was then hearing normal chatter again, so that says only the control channel freq has changed so far according to the rebanding effort.

With my 396T, I programmed 853.4500 as the new CC freq and let it scan in CC Only mode. I found it thinks the CC freq is wrong and changes it to 853.4625 while scanning. I verified 853.4500 was programmed correctly but it insists on listening on 853.4625 which prevent it from hearing the CC data. WIERD!! I haven't tried it yet with CC Only mode = OFF and programming all freqs in the system. A workaround is to use the SEARCH feature and search with CC Only mode = ON. When you search a range of freqs with CC Only mode on, it will decode CC data like it does in normal scan mode.

On my RS Pro-96, all I had to do was program the new CC freq (853.4500) in place of the old CC freq (868.4500) and everything works like it did before.

I haven't been around much to listen to Nashua's system to know exactly when the change was made but I recall hearing DPW and Nashua High School units with my old programming as recently as yesterday morning.

Tonight I was thinking I might be in the market for a new scanner very soon but it looks like I can still trunk track the system for now. Good time to upgrade to something with P25 NAC display & decode capability.

Does anybody know if the new GRE scanners give you a choice of which band plan ("old" or "rebanded") to use when programming a Moto trunked system? It's possible you'd want to program a newly rebanded system while you still have systems programmed that haven't rebanded yet.

Heads up with Nashua's 800MHz Motorola system....looks like rebanding has started!

[ronhl]

thanks for the update, i just added the new cc freq to my pro-197 and all is good.
Been hoping for a long time Manchester reband because of the cell tower interference. Maybe soon they will follow in Nashuas footsteps.

[ronhl]

seems they have, or at least its both
just heard the street dept down on 852.3625
(867.3625 like cc is 15mhz down , now 852.3625)
other than reprogramming their radios i wonder if they needed to make adjustments to the tower antennas
this is fun.....

[Highpockets]

Utah rebanding is completed, here is a post that has some good info on rebanding.

http://www.radioreference.com/forums...d-systems.html

[PeterGV]

Dave... you're great for noticing this and posting it so quickly. Thanks!

They're clearly moving radios slowly and cautiously. It's interesting to watch (er, hear).

Remember: New frequencies in Nashua's range will be 15MHz LOWER than the original frequencies.

They moved the control channel from 868.4500 to 853.4500 -- Either simultaneously or shortly thereafter, (as ronhl noted) the radios for the streets / snow plowing folks were rebanded.

At the same time, we're hearing police, fire, and EMS on the original channels (such as 866.600 and 866.975).

My Pro96 seems to be coping with this strangeness pretty well (though, I admit that I'm not sure how). I *am* seeing it have trouble with some with at least one channel... It's switching to 862.7625 for some transmissions, which is neither an old nor a new frequency in Nashua's system.

Testing with my 396t is so far inconclusive (it seems to be having trouble receiving the new control channel clearly... Though it SHOWs that it's on 853.4500 I wonder if it's REALLY on frequency).

Anybody else seeing this same things? Anybody have an explanation for the odd 862.7625 channel on the Pro96?

Bravo and thanks again to Dave N1DAS,

Peter
K1PGV

[n1das]

Originally Posted by PeterGV

Dave... you're great for noticing this and posting it so quickly. Thanks!

They're clearly moving radios slowly and cautiously. It's interesting to watch (er, hear).

Remember: New frequencies in Nashua's range will be 15MHz LOWER than the original frequencies.

I posted what I found within an hour or so of noticing it. I was out with my g/f shopping at Wal*Mart (note: Wal*Mart logo recently changed to Walmart*) and all evening I was wondering why I wasn't hearing any Nashua traffic on my 396T. Right as I pulled into the parking lot at Walmart* in Amherst I noticed I wasn't hearing anything on Nashua's system because the CC channel was DEAD. I did a search from 851-860MHz with CC only mode = ON during the search and it found Nashua's CC data on 853.45, 15MHz below the old 868.45 freq. Aha! That's something new and it only happened within the last day or two while I wasn't around much to listen and notice it sooner. I last heard DPW units and Nashua High school units on Thursday morning. I don't remember if I heard any PD units because I didn't listen for very long while on my way to work. I think the CC freq change happened sometime on Friday because last night was the first time I noticed being too quiet to be true.

They moved the control channel from 868.4500 to 853.4500 -- Either simultaneously or shortly thereafter, (as ronhl noted) the radios for the streets / snow plowing folks were rebanded.

At the same time, we're hearing police, fire, and EMS on the original channels (such as 866.600 and 866.975).

I noticed the PD/FD/EMS still on the original voice channels after getting my Pro-96 working again with the new CC freq (853.45).

My Pro96 seems to be coping with this strangeness pretty well (though, I admit that I'm not sure how). I *am* seeing it have trouble with some with at least one channel... It's switching to 862.7625 for some transmissions, which is neither an old nor a new frequency in Nashua's system.

I saw this today with my Pro96. Time to look up WPPF224 again in the FCC's ULS database!

Testing with my 396t is so far inconclusive (it seems to be having trouble receiving the new control channel clearly... Though it SHOWs that it's on 853.4500 I wonder if it's REALLY on frequency).

Anybody else seeing this same things? Anybody have an explanation for the odd 862.7625 channel on the Pro96?

Bravo and thanks again to Dave N1DAS,

Peter
K1PGV

Testing with my 396T last night showed the same thing you're seeing. I have Nashua's system programmed to scan in CC Only mode and I've verified I've programmed 853.4500 (new) in place of 868.4500 (old). I found it changes the freq to 853.4625, thinking I must have made a mistake. This puts it 12.5kHz above where it should be and can't hear the CC data.

Given that I found the new CC channel with SEARCH and I started hearing normal chatter again, it should work if you can get the correct CC freq in there. I'm currently listening while paused on 853.4500 in SEARCH and with CC Only mode = ON with search. I haven't tried turning CC Only mode = OFF yet and scanning with all system freqs programmed.

Fun stuff!

[NFRBuff]

I have the RS PRO-96 so all I have to do is change the 868.4500 freq to the 853.4500 or do I have to change all the freq's? Any help would be great thank's.

[PeterGV]

Originally Posted by NFRBuff

I have the RS PRO-96 so all I have to do is change the 868.4500 freq to the 853.4500 or do I have to change all the freq's? Any help would be great thank's.

You JUST need to enter 853.4500 -- The Pro96 (like the 396t) will work if you JUST tell it the control channel.

As both Dave N1DAS and I mentioned above, you WILL find that there are a few problems with at least one of the channels.

Originally Posted by N1DAS

I found it changes the freq to 853.4625

Dave: I'm not having that problem. It let me enter 853.4500 both directly and via ACG396. Which firmware version are you running in your 396t? Perhaps you're not running the latest update?

I AM however getting very poor reception from my 396t on 853.4500 -- My Pro96 gets it fine here in Mont Vernon (using my 800Mhz external antenna), but just LISTENING to my 396 I can barely hear the control channel. Hmmm.... might just be bad conditions...

Peter
K1PGV

[n1das]

Originally Posted by PeterGV

Dave: I'm not having that problem. It let me enter 853.4500 both directly and via ACG396. Which firmware version are you running in your 396t? Perhaps you're not running the latest update?

I'm doing all my programming direct from the keypad on my 396T and Pro-96 handhelds. I've never hooked either of them to a PC. Firmware in both scanners are OLD.

When programming Nashua's system, I entered 853.4500 directly and it takes it with no problem. I've entered this in place of the old 868.4500. I've got CC Only mode = ON like I did before with the old CC freq. When scanning it displays 868.4625 while scanning the system. This is consistent with the notes from the Utah rebanding where the freq 853.4500 ends in "0" and it has to end with "5" for it to work under the old plan in the 396T. My 396T tries to fix it by changing the freq to 868.4625 and it won't work because it can't hear the CC data because it's now off-frequency by 12.5khZ. ARGGHHH!

My 396T's firmware is OLD. I haven't done any updates at all and it is an early 396T.

396T firmware version = 1.06.00
Ancient!

My RS Pro-96 firmware is also OLD. I haven't done any updates at all given that these scanners have never been hooked up to PC. The Pro-96 is working fine with the new CC freq except for the 852.7625 weirdness like you found.

Pro-96 firmware version = F1.0
Ancient!

[PeterGV]

Wow... Dude... you enter all the talkgroups and stuff by hand from they keypad? Wow... you're far more patient than me.

Once the system is fully rebanded, I *think* you're going to find that you'll have to update the firmware on both those radios. Otherwise, I don't think the Pro96 understands 12.5KHz channel separations or that either has the ability to allow you to load your own channel map.

I guess we'll see though, huh??

Peter
K1PGV

[Ernest1001]

I have been reading and thinking all along that after rebanding occurs the channel spacing will be 12.5KHz apart. From what I read the spacing is currently 25KHz. Is this right at all? I have a Uniden BC246T, and so far it seems to handle the rebanding just fine, as long as it is not in Control Channel Only Mode.

[ka8scp]

Nashua right now is using 852.7500 has the control channel. I added to the collection on my PRO-96 and its working fine.

[fawalley]

Hi All A New guy here Frank form Nashua.

Nashua reband started either Thursday Jan 29 or the Friday Jan 30. They have been all over the place with the CC 853.450 852.750 853.25625 and some others that I've lost track of. Today, Thu Feb 5 they started on 852.750 then swithched to 852.55 and as of now 1400 hrs they are on 853.26250 Data is 853.51250

My 96 isn't doing to well on the new CC's. I pickup id and voice on my DPW listing no problem, hear the NFR fire tones but the police and other fire lists will stop on the VC show an id listing but has no voice.

Having downloaded all the 30 freq's I have found listed I can still here the voice and when the change the CC I have it set that I'll know when it changes.

[hb9001]

Hi I need help reprograming my pro96 I have no idea what im doing for the reband. please help my email is hb9001@hotmail.com if you can help and yes i have win96

[ka8scp]

Originally Posted by hb9001

Hi I need help reprograming my pro96 I have no idea what im doing for the reband. please help my email is hb9001@hotmail.com if you can help and yes i have win96

Last night I downloaded the latest version on Win96 (1.59) and lo and behold if there is not a button in the MOT 3600 CC -> Multi table block that says "800 MHz rebanded". I selected that button, saved the file and uploaded it the PRO-96 and I was hearing and seeing the rebanded Nashua system.

de KA8SCP

[hb9001]

So I chose the reband button now do I add in the new freq like 852. w/e or keep the 868's and is there anything else i need to do ?

[joepolcari]

Nashua is in change mode. The system is a combination of pre-reband and post-reband conditions.

You have to re-create Nashua as a Motorola Custom system. If you don't have this option, you need the latest firmware. You have to create this system manually unless you have a software package that can create and save a Motorola Custom system with at least 5 band plans that contain start and stop frequencies, offset channel and step frequency. UASD and bctool presently cannot do this so be careful not to erase this new system when programming your scanner until the software catches up.

Create a Motorola Custom system with the new frequencies (15MHz below the old frequencies), use the band plans below, add your Groups and TGIDs.
This system WILL work for now, until Nashua completes the process.
When they do, you will need to use the band plans in the firmware release notice, also below.

Here are the bandplans that are apparently in use right now:

1- 851.0125 - 854.0 offset 0 spacing 25KHz (for all)
2- 851.025 - 854.0 offset 440
3- 866.0 - 866.975 offset 720
4- 867.0 - 867.4 offset 815
5- 867.425 - 868.95 offset 961

When they are done, these are the standard rebanded band plans:

1- 851.025 - 854.0 offset 440
2- 851.0125 - 868.9875 offset 0

[Sinister]

I have used the following frequencies:
852.262500
852.362500
852.750000
852.550000
853.450000
853.262500
853.512500

I program with Win500 and have selected custom table and then rebanded 800 Mhz tables.
So far have recieved police, fire and EMS.

[n1das]

Originally Posted by ka8scp

Last night I downloaded the latest version on Win96 (1.59) and lo and behold if there is not a button in the MOT 3600 CC -> Multi table block that says "800 MHz rebanded". I selected that button, saved the file and uploaded it the PRO-96 and I was hearing and seeing the rebanded Nashua system.

de KA8SCP

I also downloaded the latest Win96 (version 1.59) and played with it tonight. I found the "800MHz rebanded" button, saved the file and uploaded it to my Pro-96. IT WORKS!!!! I'm hearing everything on the rebanded Nashua system again!!!

I still need to work on my 396T. The RS Pro-96 was a piece 'o cake.

[fog]

Is anyone able to monitor the system in its current state with Pro96Com? I have monitored them before, so my setup works, but it's not decoding anything right now. I'm hearing their control channel nice and strong on 853.2625, and the Pro-96 shows 90-99% and gets the 7C25 ID, but Pro96Com just goes through the motions of monitoring without actually getting any data. ("0 out of 15" packets decoded...) Just trying to figure out if it's an error on my end or if they've dropped to 3600 or something during the transition? It's more irritating because I know it used to work.