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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 08-02-2011, 3:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W2GLD View Post
No this would not be possible just using the scanner, the new Camden County system will be a Project-25 Phase II X2-TDMA system that will be 100% digital; the GRE PSR-410 is an analog ONLY scanner.


Any being built that will accept camden counties signal ?
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Old 08-02-2011, 6:41 PM
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PSR-800 is reportedly capable of receiving Motorola's Project 25 Phase II X2-TDMA, so when the Camden County system is completed, PSR-800 is likely to be your answer.
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Old 08-03-2011, 7:34 AM
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Any radio such as the 800 or any other on the market that will receive camden county ?
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Old 08-03-2011, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ampulman View Post
I have a PRO-106 and have yet to program this system. When the thread was started, I quickly programmed it (old CC) into my 396T as a Mot/P25 system.

Today, seeing your post, I changed the CC to the new one, and after reading further, attempted to change (enter) the band plan information. What you have listed as Plan 01, was already entered as Plan 0. Likewise, your Plan 02 was entered as Plan 1 (only frequency and step; no hi/lo).

Guessing that I would have to re-enter the system as a custom system, it occurred to me IIRC, that custom plans are limited to Motorola systems, not P25.

So, I'm hoping that you (anyone) can comment as to how this system should be entered in a 396T and a PRO-106.
Not having any feedback on my post, I proceeded to create a new system on my 396T with custom band plans. The only option for custom plans was for a Motorola 800 system. Since non-custom 700 mhz systems are programmed as MOT 800 systems, I chose the MOT 800 custom.

When I attempted to enter Plan #1, a value was listed as out of range, so I aborted the new system. Later, I returned to scanning and must have had the original system enabled. I heard several quick exchanges on TG 1. When scanning, the display shows DAT. With audio, it flashes P25, then quickly chankges to LNK.

Bear in mind, (in my quote) that when I originally programmed the system, it populated BP #0 and #1 with some values missing. So now my question is, is what I'm hearing (being reported as P25) phase I or II?

After hearing the quick exchange, one guy said he was going home.

Amp
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Old 08-03-2011, 1:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ampulman View Post
Not having any feedback on my post, I proceeded to create a new system on my 396T with custom band plans. The only option for custom plans was for a Motorola 800 system. Since non-custom 700 mhz systems are programmed as MOT 800 systems, I chose the MOT 800 custom.

When I attempted to enter Plan #1, a value was listed as out of range, so I aborted the new system. Later, I returned to scanning and must have had the original system enabled. I heard several quick exchanges on TG 1. When scanning, the display shows DAT. With audio, it flashes P25, then quickly chankges to LNK.

Bear in mind, (in my quote) that when I originally programmed the system, it populated BP #0 and #1 with some values missing. So now my question is, is what I'm hearing (being reported as P25) phase I or II?

After hearing the quick exchange, one guy said he was going home.

Amp

Amp,

Using a Uniden BCD396T, you will ONLY ever hear Project-25 Phase I type traffic. Your radio is NOT capable of receiving anything but these types of transmissions and there is and will be no firmware upgrade to allow it.

As for the custom bandplans; you should not program this information because it has the potential to confuse the scanner tracking and will attempt to tune conversations it cannot decode. In your case, simply program this system as a standard Project-25 800MHz. system and keep the default settings as these custom bandplan tables do not apply.

The traffic on talkgroup 1 is standard Phase I, traffic on some others is X2-TDMA.

Hope this helps!
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Old 08-03-2011, 2:20 PM
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I had a chuckle with the Wireless Resource guys today when they said "I bet the radio reference guys are having a stroke right now" and "wow there's traffic on the system"...

It appears we have many folks watching our every posts!

At least we know that this appears to be a Statewide NJ system now...
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Old 08-03-2011, 3:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W2GLD View Post
Amp,

Using a Uniden BCD396T, you will ONLY ever hear Project-25 Phase I type traffic. Your radio is NOT capable of receiving anything but these types of transmissions and there is and will be no firmware upgrade to allow it.

As for the custom bandplans; you should not program this information because it has the potential to confuse the scanner tracking and will attempt to tune conversations it cannot decode. In your case, simply program this system as a standard Project-25 800MHz. system and keep the default settings as these custom bandplan tables do not apply.

The traffic on talkgroup 1 is standard Phase I, traffic on some others is X2-TDMA.

Hope this helps!
O.K., regarding phase I or phase II TGs, would having the capability for either type of modulation be by design--in effect a form of encryption, if you will, for high security groups? Seems rather strange. There must be the need for more hardware/software/radio capability. Edit: Found out that hardware can have the capability to switch to Phase I if that radio affiliating with system.

With regard to the custom band plans, when I originally programmed the system, I did not program them. When I attempted to add them to the system, I discovered that there were 2 plans already in place (weird).

What is the purpose of the custom plans for the GRE/RS units (other than the 800), since they cannot decode the phase II txs?

Amp

Last edited by ampulman; 08-03-2011 at 4:08 PM.. Reason: Addition re Phase I/Phase II
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Old 08-05-2011, 4:03 PM
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Okay here are a few more updates. It appears that the RadioReference.com database is once again wrong...

Someone has listed system ID: 39A as being slated for New York City Police Department; however, as of today I can verify that this is NOT correct.

The state of New Jersey has been in the process of implementing a 700Mhz. Project-25 Phase II system to coincide with their existing 800MHz. system.

As of today, 08-05-2011 at 16:45 hours, there are now three sites that are on the are in the southern and central areas of New Jersey using the system ID 39A and listing to the Wireless Communications technicians, they will be linking to East Orange and several other sites in the coming weeks; which would make sense as to why a tower location may exist atop the Empire State Building in order to provide fill-in coverage to the west; it would make NO SENSE for the NYPD to have a site located there because it would have the umbrella effect for coverage in mid-town Manhattan.

The following sites are currently online:

Site 103 (Unknown Location):

770.94375 (Control Channel)


Site 104 (Berlin - Route 73):

769.69375 (Control Channel)
769.91875
770.16875 (Control Channel)
773.56875 (Control Channel)
774.31875 (Control Channel)


Site 105 (Unknown Location):

774.56875 (Control Channel)


Perhaps some of you located between Berlin and Trenton and Berlin and Hammonton can verify sites 103 & 105 as I think this is where these are located.
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Old 08-05-2011, 4:17 PM
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I want to publicly eat some crow for jumping to conclusions and ASSuming this was an NYPD system, per the RRDB listing. I went by the SysID the RRDB had listed, which are always unique to each and every Motorola system. I should've known better than to trust the RRDB info, I'm no stranger to seeing plenty of inaccuracies make it into the DB.

I also misspoke about those 700 MHz frequencies being "NYS licenses". In actuality, they are state licenses for the entirety of the Region 8 NYC Metro Area, which includes 14 counties in NY and 13 counties in NJ.

I put this spreadsheet together two years ago based on the Region 8 plan. Maybe it'll be useful as these new systems start to pop up. I have it broken down by each county as well as the state licenses highlighted. Of course it's all subject to change, but I think it's probably a decent starting point to get some idea of the scope of the Region 8 700 MHz breakdown.

Last edited by GTR8000; 11-12-2011 at 6:35 PM..
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Old 08-05-2011, 5:36 PM
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so camden county is more then likely in the clear 2 monitor right
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Old 08-05-2011, 5:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chauffeur6 View Post
I want to publicly eat some crow for jumping to conclusions and ASSuming this was an NYPD system, per the RRDB listing. I went by the SysID the RRDB had listed, which are always unique to each and every Motorola system. I should've known better than to trust the RRDB info, I'm no stranger to seeing plenty of inaccuracies make it into the DB.

I also misspoke about those 700 MHz frequencies being "NYS licenses". In actuality, they are state licenses for the entirety of the Region 8 NYC Metro Area, which includes 14 counties in NY and 13 counties in NJ.

I put this spreadsheet together two years ago based on the Region 8 plan. Maybe it'll be useful as these new systems start to pop up. I have it broken down by each county as well as the state licenses highlighted. Of course it's all subject to change, but I think it's probably a decent starting point to get some idea of the scope of the Region 8 700 MHz breakdown.

No need to eat any crow here brother; I just realized a long time ago that rr.com is just that, a reference source... If you want things done right, you have to do them yourself.

Over the years I have tried on many occasions to make sure south jersey was up-to-date but it has become a thankless job and now I just keep my own for friends. It took almost two years for me to get the Burlington County system put into the database; if it hadn't been for W2SJW's help, it would have never happened.

Thanks for the document as well but it doesn't include the south region of NJ.
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Old 08-05-2011, 5:41 PM
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Quote:
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so camden county is more then likely in the clear 2 monitor right
I am not sure what exactly you mean by "likely in the clear to monitor"?
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Old 08-05-2011, 5:46 PM
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Like I said in my 'NJ State Systems' post, the new 700 sites for South Jersey will be at the exact same sites as the 800 system, so that should help you guys nail-down where each site-ID is coming from.
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Old 08-05-2011, 7:40 PM
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Fact!
Unique to each and every Motorola system(TypeI or Type II,) in 99.9% cases.

P25 9600 trunked system might have the same System ID of other P25 trunk systems.
Just look at SystemID's 001 , 005 , 00A , 00B , 00C , 010 , 032 , 037 , 04B , 142 , AD5 , etc...
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Old 08-06-2011, 2:21 AM
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I made some changes to the database. You can post your findings to this listing: Garden State Wireless Interoperabilty Network (GSWIN) Trunking System, Varies, New Jersey - Scanner Frequencies

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Old 08-06-2011, 4:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chauffeur6 View Post
I also misspoke about those 700 MHz frequencies being "NYS licenses". In actuality, they are state licenses for the entirety of the Region 8 NYC Metro Area, which includes 14 counties in NY and 13 counties in NJ.

I put this spreadsheet together two years ago based on the Region 8 plan. Maybe it'll be useful as these new systems start to pop up. I have it broken down by each county as well as the state licenses highlighted. Of course it's all subject to change, but I think it's probably a decent starting point to get some idea of the scope of the Region 8 700 MHz breakdown.
actually state licenses are the same channels nationwide. Every state has the same block of state license 700 spectrum. In some areas, the states have agreed to a method to split it up to prevent interference.
The channels are geographically licensed to the whole state, individual location licenses will not be in the FCC database.
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Old 08-06-2011, 6:35 AM
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I'll jump on this train too and get a couple of my scanners loaded up. I drive from South Jersey to Princeton daily so I may be able to get a bearing on what's going on - especially when the new updates for the HP-1 come out...
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Old 08-06-2011, 9:51 AM
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so camden county is pretty much in the clear so far ?
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 08-07-2011, 12:20 PM
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Default Slightly off topic, but Relevant

When the Camden Cnty (original) trunked system was announced months ago, it was described as an 800 mhz P25 system, which would eventually undergo transition to a 700 mhz system.

Apparently, it has, but some questions come to mind. First, if this was (and it was) their intent, why didn't they just go ahead and create the 700 system? There must have been hardware, programming, and infrastructure costs incurred in establishing the 800 system.

Second, why is the 800 system still alive and well? There certainly is a cost involved in continuously pumping out a control channel.

Amp
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Old 08-07-2011, 5:30 PM
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Default NJ DOT allocates $17 million for upgrades

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/201..._17m_on_s.html

Perhaps this is where some of the money for the DOT part of it is coming from. According to published reports all trucks will have GPS as well as cell phones with GPS. The last paragraph says that since last year they have been able to track their trucks using the radios.

Sorry for the duplicate posts, got ahead of myself here.
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