Bergen County Police Trunk system

[jvdet]

Just to keep this thread barely alive
now that summer is gone I see in the data base Leonia PD is on the trunk system - and the fire dept is also dispatched by BC
I never kept up with it since is was reported you could not hear anything as it was encrypted
I thought Lodi was going over?
there intersystem 478.2875 has had an odd asortment of users - from various OEM's to survalance - and during the storm the county police boats and other special units - in the clear
so is this trunck system worth listening too?

[railtrailbiker]

Not sure if the database is accurate about Leonia; other web sites report that Leonia is still on VHF.

[radiomanNJ1]

well they are on the trunk system - and fire is dispatch by the county ; am hearing them too
go figure

[jaymatt1978]

Are you sure the intersystem is not on 477.2875???

[jvdet]

oops it is 477.2875

but anyway how do we know if the TG's listed in the DB is accurate if its encrypted ;how does one know who is who - never mind, I cant decode it anyway - can or is there anyone who can decode them?

[Alarmguy]

Leonia also has a link to Miccom on 158.9625 DCS723 for EMS services. The unit calls in to both Leonia and Miccom.

[ScanXO]

158.9625 is Palisades Park PD secondary/OEM and townwide common with alerts are sent out to schools and such repeater, and the input to rivervale PD repeater

you say leonia can use it ?

[Alarmguy]

Yeah it was Leonia and Miccom I Heard On 158.9625 DPL723. I got a close call Hit from it. It was a repeater.
I heard them say "BLS XXXX to Miccom and Leonia Responding to ____" "BLSXXXX to Leonia we are out at Holy Name".

[ScanXO]

yep its PalParks ems /oem etc channel and Leonia EMS and Ridgefiled EMS - which are dispatched by the county have it - but its a Palidades Park channel - which interferres with rivervale all the time - if it wasnt for pl ....

[alex367]

What radio will be able to lisen into the new trunk system?

[radiomanNJ1]

If you want to listen to the Bergen County Police you are out of luck. This highly secretive agency that has great responsibility for traffic enforcement has encrypted all communications.

There is some local government activity and Leonia (currently) on the system.

Originally Posted by alex367

What radio will be able to lisen into the new trunk system?

[alex367]

Originally Posted by radiomanNJ1

If you want to listen to the Bergen County Police you are out of luck. This highly secretive agency that has great responsibility for traffic enforcement has encrypted all communications.

There is some local government activity and Leonia (currently) on the system.

i need to know what radio will be able to lisen to them. i have clearance to be able to lisen to police. i need to find a radio that will be able lisen and talk, but will not kill me on cash.

[KC2zZe]

Please delete. I realized after I hit send that I was likely duped by a troll ^ ^

[MFR465]

Re: the Palisades Park "Citywide" on 158.9625 (which coincidentally is now the input to River Vale/Old Tappan's new police repeater to 155.19 pl 88.5)... the only towns that operate and monitor - aside from MICCOM - the Pal Park channel are Englewood Cliffs, Englewood City and of course Palisades Park. Leonia has NO involvement in that channel. The county is barely able to monitor their own let alone another EMS channel to worry about.

While some of my units still can't get it straight and call Leonia on that channel, I am quick to remind them that they don't have that to listen and respond on and that we at MICCOM are the sole "eyes and ears" for EMS in that boro.

[jaymatt1978]

You said river vale old tappans "new " repeater 155.1900 88.5. They have been using 155.1900 pl 71.9 for a few years now.. Did the y change PL's? If so did Emerson change also???

[ScanXO]

Rivervale/Old Tappan have been on a repeater for years - yep looks (hear) they have change the pl output to 88.5 to get away from hearing Emerson PD, Emerson PD once in a while also use P25 on 155.190 and all three towns now talk over each other but dont know it?! then last week heard in westwood area somebody - "radio repair testing 12345".... on SPEN channels 1-4 using P25 ?!!

[902]

Originally Posted by ScanXO

...all three towns now talk over each other but dont know it?!

This is nothing new for Bergen County communities. "Back in the day" Fairview, Cliffside Park, and Edgewater (and even before that, Fort Lee and Ridgefield, too) were using 155.61. Maybe it all started in carrier squelch, but over the years as the high rises went up and more people moved in, they all got busier. They got their own PL tones (probably so they wouldn't have to hear Belleville "388" and Port Washington/Sands Point). The rest is heterodyne and it takes few voting receivers throughout a relatively little town to make the channel usable for mobiles and portables to overcome co-channel interference. Now look at 155.73 and 154.16 with not only different PLs, but everyone putting up their own repeaters to cover their own square mile-and-a-half. That's been going on for quite a while.

SPEN channels 1-4 using P25 ?!!

This is a big problem in many areas, not just in NJ. Agencies buy digital equipment and vendors program them indiscriminately (or more like it, they program the equipment in the protocol they sell and hope to make it the de facto standard so others will have to buy their stuff to be compatible with the dominant user in the region). What happens is when different agencies show up at a common incident, one guy's working in analog, another is in P25, and yet another can be in Mototrbo or NXDN. They all think they're working on the same channels, and they are, but no one can talk to each other (full circle back to the 90s when public safety felt it had to create its own digital "standard"). It kinda thwarts interoperability instead of helps it. Technicians, vendors, and white-shirts: Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

[jvdet]

back to trunking
The Juvenile Detention Center use to be simplex - why would the need for them to be on a repeated TG - why have a Dept which is contained to a medium size building need to broadcast county wide when its area of operation is so small ?
Lodi Fire comms are also tied a TG system wide - do they have a fire ground setup off the repeater (trunk) system? having comms on a main repeater is not recogmended - look at Hackensack, now 20 years ago? river st Ford fire when all comms were on same channel
just wondering your thoughts ...

[902]

There have been a number of incidents relating to repeated fireground traffic. The most notable digital trunked incident was Prince William County, the death of Technician (firefighter) Kyle Wilson. Here is what that incident sounded like (it's digital and I believe it's from their logging recorder, NOT a scanner feed). Pay attention around 6:12. Mind you, this was the IMBE vocoder and improvements were made IF the various users bought AMBE equipment. If you've ever been a firefighter and used a radio with SCBA, you'll know that even analog can sound like hell, especially under duress. Also note the times in the digital audio where voices just stop and hang, have the "gollywobbles," or sound "pixelated." This is a poor signal level going back to wherever the receiver(s) is(are). Also, note some transmissions cut off. Signal's just not making it back to the system to hold it. Regardless of IMBE or AMBE vocoding (or VSELP, or make-your-own, or whatever), poor signal is poor signal. In analog, possibly this may have been heard very noisily - OR, it might not have been heard at all. I won't say one is better than the other, they're just different. Simplex operation, however, may have required the signal to only go through the building to the incident commander who is within the fireground perimeter rather than the closest site (which I believe was several miles away).

Our very own Zerg90 suggested to NFPA that all fireground traffic be simplex. I believe the committee approved his proposal and best practices were codified into NFPA1221. That said, a number of fire service agencies use fireground talkgroups for many reasons, including so that dispatch can hear/participate. The decision to do that has to be carefully evaluated by the agency and NOT the salesman. In other situations, not accessing the system has justified spending more money on additional infrastructure. So, simplex is not necessarily the salesman's choice.

[radiomanNJ1]

The short verison - someone in the county (mostly county police) were told its not a good idea to 'repeat'(trunk) the JDC, as the area they use - a building - lends itself to simplex very quietly, and what reason would they need to occupy a TG system wide..security also if one of the radios got loose - outside before the trunk radio could be stung useless (which can only happen during normal daytime hours - cause the tech's dont work nights and weekends) the radio could be used against them,
another reason is that the salesman may have convince the Police that they can charge fees to users ven county department users operating/maintence fees so the money wins
as for fire ground comms see above