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  #81 (permalink)  
Old 05-27-2013, 2:26 PM
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Cool Piscataway TRS

I've been running UniTrunker the past few days on the Piscataway TRS, and here is what I have observed, with ALL calls made showing "P4" (P25 ENC mode). I have also identified (some positive, others the best logical guess) a number of the TG's based on a few observations:

910 E Piscataway 911 access channel?
911 E Piscataway Town-Wide 1?
912 E Piscataway Town-Wide 2?

1002 E Piscataway Police Dispatch
1003 E Piscataway Police Ch. 2
1004 E Piscataway Police - Traffic Control?
1005 E Piscataway Police - Detectives?
1006 E Piscataway Police - Unknown

2002 E Piscataway Fire Dispatch
2003 E Piscataway Fire - District 1
2004 E Piscataway Fire - District 2
2005 E Piscataway Fire - District 3
2006 E Piscataway Fire - District 4
2007 E Piscataway Fire - Unknown
2008 E Piscataway Fire - Unknown
2009 E Piscataway Fire - Unknown
2010 E Piscataway Fire - Unknown
2011 E Piscataway Fire - Unknown
2012 E Piscataway Fire - Unknown
2013 E Piscataway Fire - Unknown

3002 E Piscataway EMS Dispatch
3004 E Piscataway EMS - Unknown

4002 E Piscataway OEM Dispatch?

5002 E Piscataway DPW Dispatch
5003 E Piscataway DPW Private?
5004 E Piscataway DPW/Police HQ Link?
5005 E Piscataway Dept. of Aging (Senior Bus) ?

6002 E Piscataway CERT Team Ops?

11002 E Dunellen Police Dispatch
11003 E Dunellen Police Ch. 2?
11005 E Dunellen - Unknown
11006 E Dunellen - Unknown
11008 E Dunellen - Unknown
11010 E Dunellen - Unknown
11011 E Dunellen - Unknown
11012 E Dunellen - Unknown
11013 E Dunellen - EMS Dispatch
11014 E Dunellen - Unknown
11015 E Dunellen - Unknown

I realize that this system is 100% encrypted, but even identifying ENC talkgroups should give the end user a sense of what's going on in town. I have not submitted this list to the database, but an administrator can feel free to add this to the Piscataway TRS page, should they feel it's warranted. Anything without a question mark after it has been 99-100% verified as to current use.
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  #82 (permalink)  
Old 06-01-2013, 5:25 PM
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I guess we're moving towards where the USSR once was. Repeating history.
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  #83 (permalink)  
Old 06-24-2013, 2:04 PM
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Year to date now Dunellen is and most likely always stay Encrypted. You cannot hear anything anymore since the new talkgroup system is up..

My only concern is why they never decided to just join the Middlesex County EDACS and possibly soon to be OPENSKY network?? Not saying what they did was a waste of money just doesn't seem good idea seeing they need to now purchase mult-banded radios which costs over a thousand dollars a piece plus installation borough and township wide for interoperability.
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Old 12-03-2013, 7:26 PM
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Dunellen police call new radio system with Piscataway a safety hazard | NJ.com
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Old 12-03-2013, 9:37 PM
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Will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Last edited by Forums Manager; 12-04-2013 at 7:40 PM..
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  #86 (permalink)  
Old 12-05-2013, 7:35 AM
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This could be an interesting situation. These types of systems typically cover a defined area and are required to use antennas which contain signals. I would wonder if the Piscataway system was built in such a way that Dunellen was not deliberately included in coverage. It's difficult to imagine, since these towns are contiguous and Dunellen is very slightly over 1 square mile. Still got to wonder if there is a directional antenna or terrain feature nulling the direction of Dunellen.

And, this is a recurring theme elsewhere, as agencies consolidate. It's not always a good idea to go onto someone else's radio system, because it's built for them, not the other agency.

The tenor of the politician comments seems to be 'Tough, if you don't like the coverage we give you, fix it.'
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Old 12-05-2013, 4:34 PM
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  #88 (permalink)  
Old 12-05-2013, 4:36 PM
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Even with a site at Arbor Hose Co., there do seem to be potential trouble spots in Dunellen. Hmmm... a good deal of that might clear up IF that site went up to 120 ft, although there seem to be a couple of difficult zones, even with that, considering the terrain. Maybe a directional increase in ERP could be possible with some custom antenna solutions. The problem might be increasing footprint on T-Band (even though it looks like very little of the signal actually goes past the Watchung ridge). It would require a waiver of the rules in this climate.

And, increasing that site might cause simulcast issues elsewhere inside Piscataway, especially where the other transmitters have converging coverage (and timing within the simulcast overlaps might very well be the issue, itself). Throwing in a site that looks like it's a mile away from the next closest site doesn't make a lot of sense to me, at least.

Best advice may be to retain a professional to evaluate system performance (drive testing, propagation models, measurements) and consider options from there.
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  #89 (permalink)  
Old 12-15-2013, 12:59 AM
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QSY back to 153.98. Problem solved.
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  #90 (permalink)  
Old 12-15-2013, 7:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ion_op View Post
QSY back to 153.98. Problem solved.
How about 33.82?
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  #91 (permalink)  
Old 12-15-2013, 10:08 PM
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They should just join the Middlesex County Talkgroup. Plain and simple. Or like others have mentioned just above back to the old conventional radio system. Even having just 1 repeater with a linear amplifier to bump up wattage coverage would do the trick. I mean if your having dead spots in a small town like Dunellen even radio to radio would be better then what they have right now.
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  #92 (permalink)  
Old 12-22-2013, 6:09 PM
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Smile Trunked Systems

I've *****ed about this before. I will admit I know next to nothing about trunked systems except I can download from RR and with the proper software program my scanner. I also admit I know little about government requirements concerning BW or interoperability. I do know that the 1st ridge of the Watchung mountains is great for radio as concerns the boros, townships of northern central Jersey, I've had simplex conversations with a fellow ham who was in his van at Washington Rock when I was in Monroe. We were both running 25W and it was as if he were sitting next to me. I know there was 2 private repeater sites in Greenbrook. I believe one may be gone due to deaths and the property being sold. One still remains plus the site in Watchung. Simple repeaters can service most of these towns just fine. So I'm wondering why millions of taxpayer money is being spent when IMHO it isn't necessary. Not trying to stir flames but I'm a K.I.S.S. type of person. Thanks for indulging my simple mind. :-)

Mike
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Old 12-23-2013, 9:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WA2E View Post
I've *****ed about this before. I will admit I know next to nothing about trunked systems except I can download from RR and with the proper software program my scanner. I also admit I know little about government requirements concerning BW or interoperability. I do know that the 1st ridge of the Watchung mountains is great for radio as concerns the boros, townships of northern central Jersey, I've had simplex conversations with a fellow ham who was in his van at Washington Rock when I was in Monroe. We were both running 25W and it was as if he were sitting next to me. I know there was 2 private repeater sites in Greenbrook. I believe one may be gone due to deaths and the property being sold. One still remains plus the site in Watchung. Simple repeaters can service most of these towns just fine. So I'm wondering why millions of taxpayer money is being spent when IMHO it isn't necessary. Not trying to stir flames but I'm a K.I.S.S. type of person. Thanks for indulging my simple mind. :-)

Mike
Mike, it's not the trunking, per se. A trunked system is a bunch of simple repeaters all sitting next to each other that can all be used at the same time, thanks to a controller. Nothing more. If you had just one repeater channel with simulcast transmitters and voting receivers in the same places, it would work have identical coverage. It's the coverage that seems to be deficient, not being trunked.

I did some research on the basis of what they already have licensed and can see problem areas, even with a site at one of the local firehouses. The problem is that they, themselves, don't have the resources to redeploy the system at a higher location. They are on "T-Band" which is frozen, thanks to Congress demanding the spectrum back in 8 years. So it is impossible for them to move their sites to the top of the Watchung Ridge, even if they could get it to Washington Rock or near the quarry north of Rt. 22 (I almost married a girl from Piscataway some years ago, so I know my way around Middlesex and Somerset Counties).

Now, if some of these sites were raised and maybe used different types of antennas, there might be some room to make things work. One of the things in the article said something about Dunellen chipping in and doing their own improvements, alluding to them putting in a site of their own, but in a place where the next site is 2 miles away or less, that might not be the wisest thing to do. The additional site may create problems with simulcast phasing not just close in, but into the other ends of the system depending on how high it might be.

What they probably need to do is retain a professional engineering firm to study their coverage and make recommendations on how to improve it. Then they'd probably need to get the help of their local Congressional Representative to modify their license. Or, they can wait a few years and who knows what will happen in terms of retaining that system. Maybe the issue will go away with another bunch in Washington.
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Old 12-23-2013, 3:30 PM
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Thanks for the reasoned reply. My concern is always the money spent that towns decide to spend or talked into by slick salesmen or perhaps called for by the fed regulations.

Mike
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Old 12-24-2013, 1:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WA2E View Post
Thanks for the reasoned reply. My concern is always the money spent that towns decide to spend or talked into by slick salesmen or perhaps called for by the fed regulations.

Mike
Well, Mike, that runs rampant in the industry. Whenever someone does not understand something, there is someone waiting in the wings to "help them" navigate through all of the issues - at a premium. It can be a greasy business with marginal ethics. Law enforcement has people who are experts in weapons, firefighters can calculate the pressure at the nozzle on the 14th floor. Some paramedics are experts at pharmacology and know all kinds of complex medication interactions. But, the radio is a magical black box. That's changing, but so is industry. Several people in every agency should take the initiative to learn radio, or they could be taken for a ride.

Those regulations have been a source of exploitation. Piscataway would have had to narrowband, but once Congress traded T-Band for the upper D-block in 700 MHz, the FCC waived the requirement to make all those changes (after a number of licensees already converted). The other thing about those regulations is that they have been used as a vehicle of convenience to replace systems that might have been deficient from the beginning. So, I can't completely say the problem is with vendors or manufacturers.

The weird thing is that Possumtown has good coverage, but Dunellen doesn't, and they're not far away. It's just site elevation and signal levels.

When I was working in the industry 23 years ago, Piscataway police were on 158.73 and very briefly had interference from Elmwood Park until the PL was changed. Looks like Elmwood Park changed at some point. I do remember all of the repeaters on the Watchung Ridge. They were the first generation in the region with I'm thinking 34/94 being there. I had trouble hitting it on an HT from Bergen County (I had one of the Heathkit VF-2031 HTs with 34/94 in it), but used to hear the QSOs on there all the time back in the 70s.
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Old 12-29-2013, 4:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WA2E View Post
I also admit I know little about government requirements concerning BW or interoperability.
BW ? ?
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Old 01-02-2014, 6:05 PM
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Bandwidth.
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Old 01-02-2014, 6:20 PM
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To 902:

Thank you again for the reasonable reply.

Trying to hit 34/94 with an HT from Bergen County??? Yeah that's not going to happen but if you were South of there the same distance probably doable.

Mike
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Old 04-04-2014, 8:34 AM
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Dunellen PD dispatch going to Somerset County P25 Phase II talkgroup?? That true?
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Old 04-04-2014, 8:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnls7424 View Post
Dunellen PD dispatch going to Somerset County P25 Phase II talkgroup?? That true?
Seems to be. Somerset OEM was doing radio tests on new talkgroups (PD Region 12 Main / Ops 1 / Ops 2) on Monday, which RIDs were coming up as Dunellen PD. This makes sense, considering Dunellen filed that grievance with Piscataway for all the coverage issues and Somerset's TRS covers Dunellen extremely well from the Green Brook / Watchung tower.

Ref: Dunellen, NJ: PBA Files Grievance over Radio System
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