Problems picking up Piscataway TRS?

TAMR213 · #1 (**permalink**) 10-01-2012, 11:25 AM

Hi all, I'm having problems picking up the Piscataway TRS on my Pro-95. I spent the last week at my Grandmothers in Monroe (Middlesex County), so I removed the Piscataway system in order to make room for other frequencies. Well I came back home yesterday and I went to plug the Pway system back into my scanner and have not been able to receive it since.

I use a Win95 file so I am 99.9% sure that everything is still programmed correctly. In addition, it seems like the emissions designation in the FCC database (along with all the info in the RR db) has not changed. The real problem is that I am not picking up any control channel, though I am picking up what sounds like it might be a digital CC or data, currently on 501.3375, though last night this noise seemed to be changing channels about every half hour or so.

Any help you guys can offer? Hopefully Pway did not switch over to the "dark side"...

GM · #2 (**permalink**) 10-01-2012, 4:50 PM

It appears Piscataway has indeed switched over to P25 digital for their TRS. The NAC is 4B1 and when I can find out some more info, I'll pass it along to all.

Update Edit: The system is currently not in Trunked mode as of now. No Sys ID, WAN, Site #, or R# shows up in the trunking section (analyze mode) in the PSR 500. Scanning through the frequencies in conventional mode, it is suspected (as rumored in a previous thread covering Piscataway) that the police are using P25 ENC mode. ENC was heard on one of the freq's earlier. Unknown what the Fire and EMS are operating on (suspected FG channels) until the TRS is up in operation. I would guess that the TRS is operating in a "Fail-Soft" type of mode based on what I have observed so far. No talkgroups are available at this time, but as they become available I will post what I find.

TAMR213 · #3 (**permalink**) 10-01-2012, 5:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GM

It appears Piscataway has indeed switched over to P25 digital for their TRS. The NAC is 4B1 and when I can find out some more info, I'll pass it along to all.

Thanks for the info as always GM, thats too bad. Looks like I'll have to buy myself a digital scanner once I save up enough money, what with many surrounding towns switching (or switching in the future) to digital systems. Any word on when they switched over, or if any users are encrypted? Thanks again.

SnakeEater9920 · #4 (**permalink**) 10-02-2012, 3:14 PM

That's such a shame. I was wondering why I wasn't hearing Piscataway on my 996XT for the past week or two. Now I know the reason.

So, they're going to use the new Middlesex County P25 700MHz. Hopefully the rumors aren't true about the police being full time Encrypted. I'm right next to them in Dunellen, and I like to be informed. But knowing agencies nowadays, everybody is anal about encryption. It kinda sucks, and ruins the hobby.

KC2ZHY · #5 (**permalink**) 10-02-2012, 3:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnakeEater9920

That's such a shame. I was wondering why I wasn't hearing Piscataway on my 996XT for the past week or two. Now I know the reason.

So, they're going to use the new Middlesex County P25 700MHz. Hopefully the rumors aren't true about the police being full time Encrypted. I'm right next to them in Dunellen, and I like to be informed. But knowing agencies nowadays, everybody is anal about encryption. It kinda sucks, and ruins the hobby.

I heard from one of the EMS line officers in Piscataway that it's not just PD that will be encrypted; it's EVERY Piscataway agency (fire and ems included). I said that it sounds preposterous, but he insisted that's what he heard via the fire commissioners. That would be absolutely frustrating, as I frequent Piscataway and love being able to listen in on what is happening.

So based on hearing that, I am going to lean highly that (at the very least) PD will be encrypted full-time.

SnakeEater9920 · #6 (**permalink**) 10-02-2012, 3:42 PM

Waste of taxpayer money. What goes on in Piscataway that's encryption worthy? Not much I can tell you that.

Bah. Oh well. All I can say is, R.I.P Piscataway. Was fun listening to you guys. Hopefully Dunellen doesn't get sucked into no mans land too! (ENC)

GM · #7 (**permalink**) 10-02-2012, 5:39 PM

Piscataway is still on the assigned UHF-T band (500 MHz) frequencies but in P25 mode (currently using Encryption). The Middlesex County 700 MHz TRS is not in operation at this time.

KC2ZHY · #8 (**permalink**) 10-07-2012, 3:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GM

Piscataway is still on the assigned UHF-T band (500 MHz) frequencies but in P25 mode (currently using Encryption). The Middlesex County 700 MHz TRS is not in operation at this time.

So are you confirming that EVERYTHING on Piscataway's P25 is encrypted (including fire / EMS)?

SnakeEater9920 · #9 (**permalink**) 10-07-2012, 3:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC2ZHY

So are you confirming that EVERYTHING on Piscataway's P25 is encrypted (including fire / EMS)?

Well, considering they had a Fire/EMS call earlier today; and I didn't hear one communication in the clear; I would think so.

So unfortunate. R.I.P Piscataway.

KC2ZHY · #10 (**permalink**) 10-07-2012, 3:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnakeEater9920

Well, considering they had a Fire/EMS call earlier today; and I didn't hear one communication in the clear; I would think so.

So unfortunate. R.I.P Piscataway.

Wow... terrible. While I understand the uses of encryption, this goes entirely too far. I guess if I want to monitor them, I'll have to see if I can get them to program the system into my XTS; I assume that I will have to sign some sort of memorandum of understanding should they even entertain something like this.

GM · #11 (**permalink**) 10-08-2012, 12:42 PM

For the more technical folks out there:

I have my PSR 500 programmed with the listed Piscataway TRS freq's as P25 AUTO mode in the trunked setting. I am not picking up any talkgroup activity on it, and in the analysis section, the "T" symbol blinks on and off every few seconds even under a strong signal. The NAC shows as 4B1 but that is all that is showing. Yet, when I listen to the freq's in conventional mode, I am getting the encryption sound on them, but not able to get the talkgroup numbers.

- So, can a P25 Control Channel have an "ESK" style feature to it like EDACS systems do to prevent scanner monitoring?
- And what would be the solution to try to monitor (to catch talkgroup numbers) the system in the current state that the system is in? (Or would it still be considered in "failsoft mode?")

W2SJW · #12 (**permalink**) 10-08-2012, 5:28 PM

Piscataway has traditionally been a /\/\ town, so I know that they don't have anything like ESK. I find it very strange that they would roll out a new system & not have be properly 'functional' before turning off the Type-II system (so it very well could be in fail-safe mode).

Are you hearing anything that sounds like a P25 CC? They are a little too far away from me to hear anything (yet, I can copy Edison & Sayreville just fine)...

CM1 · #13 (**permalink**) 10-08-2012, 6:08 PM

You might want to trying programming them back in and give a listen, I used to "sometimes" hear them, now I get their signal pretty good. But am I bit confused over what I'm hearing.

It's very odd, it sounds sort of like a P25/moto control channel that hops around between two of the frequencies with some secondary sounds (similar to TRBO comms) mixed in over the top once in a while.

Unitrunker produces negative results, DSD shows it as P25 and you get some garbled junk out of it, but it's not showing Protected mode or any details at all.

I was thinking maybe it's a Phase II system, in which case DSD and nothing currently available will receive it. Now if it's encrypted on top of that too, that's certainly possible too???

KC2ZHY · #14 (**permalink**) 10-08-2012, 6:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GM

For the more technical folks out there:

I have my PSR 500 programmed with the listed Piscataway TRS freq's as P25 AUTO mode in the trunked setting. I am not picking up any talkgroup activity on it, and in the analysis section, the "T" symbol blinks on and off every few seconds even under a strong signal. The NAC shows as 4B1 but that is all that is showing. Yet, when I listen to the freq's in conventional mode, I am getting the encryption sound on them, but not able to get the talkgroup numbers.

- So, can a P25 Control Channel have an "ESK" style feature to it like EDACS systems do to prevent scanner monitoring?
- And what would be the solution to try to monitor (to catch talkgroup numbers) the system in the current state that the system is in? (Or would it still be considered in "failsoft mode?")

It appears that they're operating with conventional P25 while they finish converting their TRS into P25 Standard. All i've heard so far is 501.3375 4B1 with encryption.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2

W2SJW · #15 (**permalink**) 10-08-2012, 8:00 PM

Also, considering the time of deployment, that this very well might be a X2/Phase 2-capable system. As soon as the CC comes on the air, we'll know...

johnls7424 · #16 (**permalink**) 10-16-2012, 6:46 PM

Im surprised their is not an underground market for police radios that are already programmed with encryption numbers. Someone could be making a killing selling those.

johnls7424 · #17 (**permalink**) 10-16-2012, 6:48 PM

As for this thread. I was just listening to them. I have a Radioshack PRO 106 Digital Scanner. All I heard was encrypted garbage on the 501.337500 channel

KC2ZHY · #18 (**permalink**) 10-18-2012, 2:37 PM

Well, there's a 2nd alarm going on somewhere in Piscataway right now. Gotta love how none of us can monitor it due to the encryption...

johnls7424 · #19 (**permalink**) 10-18-2012, 2:57 PM

Im surprised Piscataway has done this too. Their was no problem with having themselves in a talkgroup. Now they decide to encrypt. I would have thought they were going to be one of last municipalites to do this since they are behind the times elsewhere. They are one of few municipalities that has not subscribed to generalcode services which are online municipal ordinances that are online. Go figure!!

KC2zZe · #20 (**permalink**) 10-21-2012, 6:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnakeEater9920

Waste of taxpayer money. What goes on in Piscataway that's encryption worthy? Not much I can tell you that.

Bah. Oh well. All I can say is, R.I.P Piscataway. Was fun listening to you guys. Hopefully Dunellen doesn't get sucked into no mans land too! (ENC)

Actually, with a change to Project 25 digital mode there is no additional cost to activate encryption. It's just feature settings that need to be adjusted while programming the radios. The old days of adding extra parts to radios so that you can have some form of encryption are gone for the most part.

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnls7424

Im surprised their is not an underground market for police radios that are already programmed with encryption numbers. Someone could be making a killing selling those.

Actually they wouldn't. Any agency worth their salt changes the encryption keys (not "numbers") with some regularity - some as often as daily. Whatever you invest in an "underground" radio that might have an active key in it would find it worthless relatively quickly.