Morris County P25 TRS Upgrade

[W2SJW]

396XT, 996XT, & HP-1's will not pass the CC audio when holding on a 9600 system of appropriate strength.

Just in case you were wondering, there's nothing wrong with your scanners...

[Chauffeur6]

Oops yeah, I keep forgetting they auto-mute the audio on a CC. In any case, if you're seeing the SID info, it's obviously locked onto and decoding the CC.

You could also try setting up a custom search for 478.000 lower - 478.000 upper with C-Ch Only mode turned on. That should lock onto the CC and start tracking the system in ID Search mode, regardless of anything you've downloaded from RR. If you start seeing and hearing talkgroups activity in C-Ch Only search mode, we're going to have to take a look at the data FreeSCAN is downloading from RR.

[W2SJW]

I've had no problem receiving the system on my 396XT. I added it manually, using the settings shown on the previous page.

AND, I found the problem. The system is importing as 'Moto Type II / P25', and it should be 'P25 Standard':

[Chauffeur6]

Originally Posted by W2SJW

AND, I found the problem. The system is importing as 'Moto Type II / P25', and it should be 'P25 Standard'

Why the heck would it do that? It's clearly in the DB as a P25 Phase I system.

I just downloaded five other P25 systems in NY and NJ, they are all importing as Moto Type II / P25 instead of P25 Standard (Digital XT). That's a problem.

[Sybex7254]

I manually switched to P25 Standard after importing from RR in Freescan and still no joy! I'll have to chage my location to one closer to the antenna tower to see if it makes a difference or not. Hopefully not since I have no issues receiving the older system off the same tower! I am also using a roof mounted Scantenna on the 996XT so am a bit stumped as to why the issue exists.

Perhaps wait for the Home Patrol DB to be updated with the new TG's and see if that works on my HP-1.

[Chauffeur6]

Sybex, just to make certain...you changed both the System and Site to P25 Standard (Digital XT), correct? Changing the system should also change the site, but I'd double check to be sure.

Upon further thought, I think this is probably standard behavior for FreeSCAN. It has no way of determining if you have a T or XT model, so I believe you must manually switch P25 systems to the P25 Standard (Digital XT) option after importing. I never noticed that before.

[Chauffeur6]

Well, according to Assaf, it shouldn't matter.

Originally Posted by Assaf

For the P25 systems, it just detects what type of digital scanner it is talking to and modifies the system on the fly during upload so everything works. You can pick Mot/P25 or P25 Standard, it really makes no difference because on upload is when the system type actually gets decided.

[Sybex7254]

Yep....changing it on the Trunked System Setup page in Freescan, changes it in the other place automatically. Both are set correctly..."P25 Standard (Digital XT)".

I've had to make this chage manually for every pure P25 Phase I system i've imported using Feescan....i.e. Picatinny Arsenal.

[lion2479]

I have attached an image of what control channels are being used on my XTS-1500 at work. Make no mistake about the information, it was read from a radio that works just great on the new system. This is directly from the Astro CPS. Perhaps we can get the scanners to work. I sometime hear bits of transmissions, but like the previous poster. Not at all what it should be doing. The old system is working still, but since they turned the Long Hill tower off and are strickly using the new system from that site, I am receiving nothing. I am less then a 1/2 mile away from the tower and have all the bars. Yet at times it is attempting to find a control channel. I am frustrated. Any help would be appreciated.

[RocketNJ]

Hey Lion, I tell you that is NOTcorrect.

Can anyone else pick up on the mistake? :-)

[W2SJW]

Unless I've lost it since I haven't touched the ASTRO25 CPS in over a year, the 5.0 kHz deviation looks wrong for a modern P25 system.

The other thing that gets me is that another user asked that 478.450 & 478.475 be pulled from the data added last week, when the system is CLEARLY sending them as valid channels when decoding the CC via Pro96Com.

Edit - OBT is for Type-II only, right?

[RocketNJ]

The OBT is type II only but OBT P25 is for P25. Yes, the 5 kHz "looks" wrong.
Have to investigate on true P25 is the spacing should be 12.5 or 6.25 with CQPSK modulation.

There are a LOT of P25 UHF systems that have subscribers set for 12.5 / 5 kHz dev.

Inquiring minds want to know.....what is the correct setting?

[Chauffeur6]

I had Jerry pull 478.450 and 478.475 from the P25 system last week. Why? Because both frequencies are still being used on the North Simulcast of the Motorola system. Yes, they are being sent as Alt CC's on the P25 system, however 478.475 is currently the Pri CC on the North Simulcast.

Trust me, I've been sitting on this system with Unitrunker from the day it went on the air, and the only two frequencies that have been used as control channels for the P25 system are 477.800 and 478.000. Not having those other two frequencies programmed in your scanners at this point won't make a single bit of difference, as long as you have the active CC, which is 478.000.

There is a method to my madness. Having active Motorola CC's in the P25 system can definitely cause some issues for scanners, especially some Uniden models which do not distinguish between Motorola Type II and P25.

[Chauffeur6]

One other thing to consider is that this system is using LSM. Have those of you using a 396XT or HP-1 updated it with the latest firmware Uniden released a week or so ago? That update was intended to improve decoding on LSM systems. I can tell you guys that I'm listening to the system with an HP-1, locked on 478.000, and it sounds fine on all talkgroups. That being said, I'm not in Morris County, so I'm not dealing with multipath issues from the simulcast.

I would also suggest deleting 478.450 and 478.475 from your scanners if you have them programmed, for the time being. You don't want the scanner getting tripped up by the CC from the Motorola system.

[W2SJW]

Ah, good point. I live in Somerset County, so hearing the CC from the North Simulcast on my 396 & HP-1 is not an issue (but I'm going to pull them anyway).

I did the firmware uplifts on both, and it does make a difference. I did have to remember to set my 'hidden menu' settings back to 11 & 50 (I believe that I was at 8 & 125 on the last firmware).

[Sybex7254]

Ok I figured it out...at least for my scanners. I applied the latest 1.11.01 update to my 396XT and it now works like a charm! Apparently Chauffeur6 had it right in his last post...THX!

Will give it a try on my HP-1 tomorrow.

Now we just need a LSM firmware update for the 996XT...oh UPMan!!!!

Now I can finally go to bed. Goodnight all!

[Chauffeur6]

There ya go! I was sitting here all night racking my brain for reasons why you guys are sitting right under the towers, but can't hear a thing. I finally decided to remember that the system is LSM, and you guys might actually be getting TOO much signal. Sounds funny to say that, but these scanners really don't deal too well with Linear Simulcasts. Anyway, glad to hear it's working!

[RocketNJ]

A little more info on the CPS showing 5 kHz deviation. This is left over from Type II systems and does not apply to P25 systems. Deviation is hard coded based upon modulation type. Most important is the step size which needs to match the system controller settings so the channel numbers match correct frequencies.

[Sybex7254]

Originally Posted by W2SJW

At least we're now looking at what one would hope is logical incremental numbering:

257 - MUN PD 1
258 - MUN PD 2 (assumed)
259 - MUN PD 3 (assumed)
260 - MUN PD 4

Hearing MUN PD5 on TG's 261 AND 2121 (and still the old TRS) this afternoon so not sure if the above will hold true or not when all is said and done.

[Chauffeur6]

Originally Posted by Sybex7254

Hearing MUN PD5 on TG's 261 AND 2121 (and still the old TRS) this afternoon so not sure if the above will hold true or not when all is said and done.

TG 2121 is the TG for the temporary patch from the Motorola system. The actual TG for MUN PD 5 on the P25 system is 261.