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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 11-29-2013, 10:32 AM
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Question Date Base clean up- example Towns inBergen County

Here is my question - problem; with the GRE -800 and the new Uniden dumping the whole RR data base into memory, there are so many misleading tags, channel discriptions, that I, and others, see a time consuming task of editing most entries,
In Bergen the data base doesnt list Montvale, Park Ridge , Woodcliff Lake, as single towns so if one was to just listen to them, one have to know the term Central Communications - yet its a dispatch - answering point for several other towns - like Ridgewood/Glen Rock;Central also takes 911 calls from many other town but does not dispatch - then they do RiverEdge New MIlford Oradell but their not listed under Central,
So why not dump the 'Central tag and put the towns back, and whats with - LAW TAC, a town either has a Police channel 1 or channel 2 or an A or B
DO we listed the towns dispatch by the County under the County - no - towns are listed separately
this is thru out the Data Base
am i the only one so has download other data only to re-tag it properly??
your thoughts
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Old 11-29-2013, 11:22 AM
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This is why I, along with plenty of other scanner hobbyists, DIDN'T think the HP-1 wasn't as groundbreaking as say trunktracking, alpha tags, digital, tone decodes and a laundry list of other features. Yeah it's cool and yeah OK it can store "every system in the country" but to get that we lose control. Radio Reference is good for large trunking systems, that's about it
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Old 12-03-2013, 10:54 AM
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It's kind of like the people who put primary for a trunked radio system How many primarys have to show up. Why not the name of the trunking system or actual site if it's a multi site.
Law Tac?? what is that supposed to mean?
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Old 12-03-2013, 11:01 AM
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My biggest issue with the NJDB as a whole is freqs listed multiple times (common dispatch) or listed as CSQ. that stuff really ties up my scan down route 4. I would love to help sort some of this out with the DB admin.
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Old 12-03-2013, 4:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jvdet View Post
In Bergen the data base doesnt list Montvale, Park Ridge , Woodcliff Lake, as single towns so if one was to just listen to them, one have to know the term Central Communications - yet its a dispatch - answering point for several other towns - like Ridgewood/Glen Rock;Central also takes 911 calls from many other town but does not dispatch - then they do RiverEdge New MIlford Oradell but their not listed under Central,
So why not dump the 'Central tag and put the towns back, and whats with - LAW TAC, a town either has a Police channel 1 or channel 2 or an A or B
DO we listed the towns dispatch by the County under the County - no - towns are listed separately
this is thru out the Data Base
am i the only one so has download other data only to re-tag it properly??
your thoughts

*As to Central Communications, it's called regionalzation however all three towns of Montvale, Park Ridge and Woodcliff Lake are dispatched by them as stated. Though it might be convenient to separate (to some) into individual towns. However, it would not matter here, even if you wanted just to listen to Woodcliff Lake you are still going to get Montvale and Park Ridge for the simple reason they all use the same CTCSS/PL for ALL their services. The only place you might hear individual town activity is if the town has it's own "local" channel(s). In that case that particular frequency(s) would be listed under the individual town in the DB.

*As to RiverEdge New MIlford Oradell Central Dispatches on the town's own frequencies due to the fact they have different CTCSS/PLs and you can monitor here the individual towns.

*As to LAW TAC, Police/Sheriff Tactical Communications, Car to Car, Surveillance, Detectives and Dougnut and Coffee Runs


* As to channel configurations its up to the municipality, region or county. Small towns my have a Ch 1, 2 A B set up, however this set up is not a boiler plate for ALL towns.

Finally, As well as discussing things here the the forum any suggestions for Data Base improvements should be made vis via a submission.

I hope this clears things up a bit IMHO.

Max
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Old 12-03-2013, 9:06 PM
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I think you miss the point - this is not about regionalization - its not about a any towns channel plan- its when we download these systems the tags/labels dont make sense
Why is triboro north listed as Central but Triboro south is not ?
should the list of the towns dispatched by the county be listed only under the county - not as individuals; - River Edge is labled as RiverEdge not Central , Re is makes more sense when am no where near Park Ridge when am in Oradell the display says Oradell Fire not central fire there is no town named 'central'
then theres NORCOM a volunteer desk open during mutual aid - on the download one would have no idea what towns it covers - the display says NORCOM yet some of the fire channel plan is listed under Wykoff and surrounding towns -
as posted above under trunk systems the sites are listed as simocast or mutisystem on a download the display makes no sense ; name the systems' site
Hey its just a thought I have had with others to be able to keep it simple
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Old 12-03-2013, 9:33 PM
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OK I believe I am getting your point here. So my recommendation is to take your idea/suggestions/comments and carefully, take your time and precisely explain the problem(s), give clear examples of each problem i.e. misleading tags, channel descriptions etc. Then carefully state what you would like to see in the data base again via examples and /or your statements from this forum thread. Then by all means send this info in as a submission to DB admin. Posting on the forums you will get a discussion on the issue but may not get or see any results. At least a submission will cause a DB admin to at least look at your items and act appropriately. That's All for now.
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Old 12-04-2013, 5:36 AM
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May I suggest that an admin be appointed who is from that area and knows exactly how things are organized. Bergen County is the most confusing county in NJ when it comes to the way things are laid out.

Bergen isn't the place where we see this, Hudson County has 155.235 listed in both the County Fire/EMS section, then again in Jersey City as main dispatch. SPEN 4 must be listed 25 times in some form through out the database in NJ.
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Old 12-04-2013, 7:27 AM
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I think right now this is just a discussion. The DB management is no easy task, and while many are quick to throw rocks, I think the comments here are constructive and cause for some investigation. The DB Admin probably hasnt seen this yet, its only a few days old. But I believe he/she is only one person... for all of NJ.

And yes, submitting tickets is the proper way to request changes. But, I think putting ideas out for group discussion prevents multiple and duplicate tickets from being submitted. The DB Change Request is not for suggestions in as much as it is for submitting factual data.

Example: "I think the DB should be sorted by frequency." That is a suggestion.

"You should eliminate duplicate and shared channels in the DB." That is also a suggestion.

"The DPL for Wanaque PD in UHF is 664." That is factual data (I think).

Save the admins some time and hair loss by discussing it first in the forums, then submit. Seems to be the easiest way.
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Old 12-05-2013, 11:47 AM
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I applied to be a Bergen County DB admin months ago the application went absolutely nowhere. I can't tell you how many e-mails I get saying "Well according to Radio Reference............" and it truns out to be WRONG
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Old 12-05-2013, 1:58 PM
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Not a bad idea to break the state up into counties or regions. I would be willing to work on Passaic. Have gotten pretty efficient with my CC and Birdie.
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Old 12-06-2013, 12:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cifd64 View Post
My biggest issue with the NJDB as a whole is freqs listed multiple times (common dispatch) or listed as CSQ. that stuff really ties up my scan down route 4. I would love to help sort some of this out with the DB admin.
Part of the thing in Bergen County is though, that you have 20-something towns on the .160 frequency, but with 18 different PL/DCS tones. So it's not all "common dispatch" really, and they ABSOLUTELY DO need to be listed multiple times in most cases.

Some of the firegrounds are out of date, and Lyndhurst is a total freaking mess.

There are quite a few PL's missing, and a number of frequencies that aren't even really used.

Bergen is a mess and does need a clean up. But don't go removing "redundancies" that aren't actually redundant.

I've also applied to work on Union County, but never heard a damned word. It's frustrating cause some of the wording of the notes, and loss of a common style when updates are made look sloppy. And Union County should be the cleanest, most accurate county in the entire database.
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Last edited by RadioDitch; 12-06-2013 at 12:18 AM..
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Old 12-06-2013, 7:24 AM
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I wasnt speaking of Bergen specifically.
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Old 12-06-2013, 7:37 AM
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Example: Passaic County
Source: RRDB Via FreeScan Duplicate finder
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Old 12-06-2013, 7:43 AM
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Not letting me attach, so here is the text only.

Tag Freq/TGID Tone System Group
1 Bloomingdle1 37.30000 None Passaic Bloomingdale
2 Pompton 1 37.30000 None Passaic Pompton Lakes
3 PD 2 Low 37.30000 None Passaic Ringwood
4 Wanaque 1 37.30000 None Passaic2 Wanaque
5 W Milford 1 37.30000 None Passaic2 West Milford
6 Pompton 2 37.32000 None Passaic Pompton Lakes
7 Bloomingdle2 37.32000 None Passaic Bloomingdale
8 Ringwood 2 37.32000 None Passaic Ringwood
9 Wanaque 2 37.32000 None Passaic2 Wanaque
10 W Milford 2 37.32000 None Passaic2 West Milford
11 FD/EMS Disp 45.48000 None Passaic Pompton Lakes
12 NorthHalFire 45.48000 None Passaic North Haledon
13 Wanaq FD/EMS 45.48000 None Passaic2 Wanaque
14 FDLB 1 46.38000 None Passaic Little Falls
15 Fire MA 46.38000 None Passaic2 Totowa
16 FD LB M/A 46.38000 None Passaic Passaic (City)
17 WP Fire LB 46.38000 None Passaic2 Woodland Park
18 PCMAA 2 46.38000 None Passaic2 PassaicCntyMutua
19 Totowa FG 46.44000 None Passaic2 Totowa
20 FDLB 2 46.44000 None Passaic Little Falls
21 PCMAA 3 46.44000 None Passaic2 PassaicCntyMutua
22 PD UHF 471.80000 DCS 115 Passaic Bloomingdale
23 PD 1 Disp 471.80000 DCS 115 Passaic Pompton Lakes
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Old 12-06-2013, 7:45 AM
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Here we go
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Old 12-06-2013, 7:58 AM
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So you have 37.30000 which appears to be a PD Low Band COMMON Channel. Why list it 5 times?

45.48000 which looks like a common FD Disp is listed 3 times

46.38000 looks like a Fire M/A Channel listed 5 times.

My proposal is to delete the specific town names and re-label them accordingly.

The exception is 471.80000, which is shared after hours for BPD disp from PLPD
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Old 12-06-2013, 2:32 PM
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Everyone,

RR policy is that multiple towns / townships / villages / hamlets (whatever) which share a common frequency and squelch tone are not to have duplicate entries, but rather grouped under a single frequency/tone listing. This is due to the fact that a radio programmed with all of those duplicate frequency / tone listings could say "Any Town Dispatch" when in fact "Other Town Dispatch" is actually the agency talking. This would obviously be very confusing to many listeners. It also unnecessarily uses a lot of scanner memory as well.

If particular towns have the same frequency but different tones, then they are supposed to be listed separately.

If you know of unique frequency/tone assignments for any given agency, please submit that information using the "Submit" button so the area administrator can make the necessary changes.

I realize that some people prefer to see the database broken down so that each agency has a separate listing, but as noted above, this simply does not work well for the computer programming aspect of RadioReference. The current policy is a reasonable middle ground.
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Old 12-07-2013, 6:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wa8pyr View Post
Everyone,

RR policy is that multiple towns / townships / villages / hamlets (whatever) which share a common frequency and squelch tone are not to have duplicate entries, but rather grouped under a single frequency/tone listing. This is due to the fact that a radio programmed with all of those duplicate frequency / tone listings could say "Any Town Dispatch" when in fact "Other Town Dispatch" is actually the agency talking. This would obviously be very confusing to many listeners. It also unnecessarily uses a lot of scanner memory as well.

If particular towns have the same frequency but different tones, then they are supposed to be listed separately.

If you know of unique frequency/tone assignments for any given agency, please submit that information using the "Submit" button so the area administrator can make the necessary changes.

I realize that some people prefer to see the database broken down so that each agency has a separate listing, but as noted above, this simply does not work well for the computer programming aspect of RadioReference. The current policy is a reasonable middle ground.
Yup, and that's the problem with Bergen is all towns basically use to same 2 fire frequencies, with different tones. But for the towns with shared dispatch, the notes in the database are often insufficient when listed separately.

I'm working with a friend who works in comms Bergen to get a full list together.

Again though, I'd love to be a database editor or admin, but I never get a response.
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Old 12-07-2013, 7:22 AM
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OK - I just updated some trunk systems in my travel area and under the sites the display shows I have 5 agencies labled - simocast - which leads to alot of editing - and thats in just one state, its nationwide - those people who submit this info either dont understand that - IMHO - that who cares if its - multi site simo, inverted single - this info is for a scanner and to display - betterer - (sic) should put a name to it;
As too same PL/Freq thing yes if you dont list it separately as the Original OP tried to say - I think - if you tried to find that particular agency in our travels you will never find it as its labeld as a dispatch type center whose name does not indicated its real location
I find Bergen listings too messy - with 300 freq's (inputs, outputs, FD/PD/DPW/EMS) editing takes time - and whoever submitted Lyndhurst FD - no one has low band and tankers in use in the surrounding counties
As i saw in Justin page years ago - as towns added multi channel/multiple bands, programable radios each town has each others freq's so why listed additional channels as 'mutual Aid' its a given, have you seen the local fire chiefs car with a dozen antennas - so do we listed all mutual aid freq's in a channel plan,
Yes these sugestions have been submitted - but as commented above - never corrected IMHO
thanks for the disscusion - now how too edit the UNIDEN SENTINAL program .....
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