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Old 12-26-2013, 1:17 PM
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Default Newark FD Tac Channels

What is the best guess or hard fact as too whether or not these new frequencies are analogue? Should I be searching for a PL/DPL?
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Old 12-26-2013, 2:55 PM
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As far as i know newark fire is digital in the 700mhz band.
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Old 12-26-2013, 3:39 PM
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Correct. All NFD main operations are on the NJICS trunk system in TDMA mode.

Any 700 MHz frequency is required to be digital only, as per the FCC.
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Old 12-26-2013, 3:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W2SJW View Post
Any 700 MHz frequency is required to be digital only, as per the FCC.
No, sir. There are three national itinerant (station class MOI) public safety channel pairs and 9 RPC controlled channel pairs that are low power analog-eligible, meaning it's the licensee's option to use P25 phase 1 or narrowband analog FM on them. These may be used in 11K2F3E analog mode. Many fire service agencies who have migrated to 700 MHz (and some that are on 800 MHz and have 7/800 capable equipment) use them for fireground or "scene of action" operations.

But I believe all of NFD is on the trunked system.
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Old 12-26-2013, 4:09 PM
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Ah, I did not know about those. I tried running those 4 new channels through the FCC search, and I don't see any of the counties in NJ have them in their block assignment.

Any possibility they are either Essex County or NJ State assigned?
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Old 12-27-2013, 6:26 AM
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So, the possibility exists that NFD's fire ground 700 Mhz channels are analogue narrow band? Which as we all know from many reports is desired over digital for fire ground use.
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Old 12-27-2013, 8:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W2SJW View Post
Ah, I did not know about those. I tried running those 4 new channels through the FCC search, and I don't see any of the counties in NJ have them in their block assignment.

Any possibility they are either Essex County or NJ State assigned?
Pretty good, actually.

These are the frequencies (listing only output and simplex):

Service code SG
769.05625 National (channel 9-10)
769.06875 National (channel 11-12)
774.99375 National (channel 959-960)
WQFL699
WQFL700
WQHI931

Service code SG
769.00625 Region 8 (channel 1-2)
769.01875 Region 8 (channel 3-4)
769.03125 Region 8 (channel 5-6)
769.04375 Region 8 (channel 7-8)
774.93125 Region 8 (channel 949-950)
774.94375 Region 8 (channel 951-952)
774.95625 Region 8 (channel 953-954)
774.96875 Region 8 (channel 955-956)
774.98125 Region 8 (channel 957-958)
WQQQ730
WQQD536
WQPG339
(and surprisingly nobody else)

I guess these haven't caught on much... yet. I'm kind of surprised.

They're each limited to 2 W (HT and low power mobile) and can be either analog or digital depending on what the user has coordinated/licensed.
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Old 12-27-2013, 8:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newsnick175 View Post
So, the possibility exists that NFD's fire ground 700 Mhz channels are analogue narrow band? Which as we all know from many reports is desired over digital for fire ground use.
Maybe and the statement about reports of one being better than the other not necessarily true, at least not with certain types of late model equipment (they are not all the same, so the buyer has to do some homework to make sure they are buying something updated, not the old technology). There have been quite a few advancements in DSP and vocoding algorithms. And, a lot of it has been tested in conjunction with the fire service (read: they were a little more inclusive the second time around and a lot more people researched the problems and participated in the solutions).

Is it good? I don't know, I only have one radio that has the updated vocoder, so I don't have a basis of comparison. There needs to be more recent critiques of it. Generally, if you hear something citing an incident from 10 - 13 years ago, toss it and ask for more recent data. Second generation AMBE might do okay in noisy environments. It's still not as good a vocoder as the human brain, but it might be fine as a digital technique. The only thing that won't work is doubling, and transmit inhibit on correct NAC minimizes but doesn't completely eliminate that.

Nonetheless, it's a chief's prerogative to use whatever tools do the job, and if that's analog, there's tools in the toolbox for that (12 channel pairs, 3 national, 9 region coordinated). Analog can't be used on system frequencies (those can be any type of digital as long as they meet efficiency) or on the "interoperability" channels (those must be P25 phase 1).
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Old 12-29-2013, 11:24 AM
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Well, I'm glad that newer digital works better. Maybe that will improve scanner decoding. But, doubling and transmit inhibit sounds like something you don't want. Who wants to hear a "busy signal" when they're calling a "mayday".
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Old 12-29-2013, 11:24 PM
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All Newark Fire ops are on the NJICS P25 Phase 2 TDMA trunked system. The fireground talkgroups (or tac as you call them) are listed in the database. All operations are on the main (Dispatch) talkgroup unless there is an additional, higher priority incident at the same time. In that circumstance, the higher priority incident is kept on the main (dispatch) talkgroup, and the lower priority incident is moved to a fireground talkgroup. Communications monitors Dispatch and Fireground 2.

The VHF frequencies are, and will continue to be, licensed to Newark FD as the fallback. Newark's APX's are dual band VHF/700.
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Last edited by RadioDitch; 12-29-2013 at 11:26 PM..
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Old 01-01-2014, 5:32 PM
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Default simulcasting

is Newark simulcasting their dispatch on 154.130? also what are these towns using to communicate to Newark when responding mutual aid?
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Old 01-01-2014, 8:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PGMAN
Is Newark simulcasting their dispatch on 154.130?
Nope.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PGMAN
What are these towns using to communicate to Newark when responding mutual aid?
The Essex County Fire Mutual Aid repeater...470.5125 PL 82.5
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Old 01-04-2014, 12:29 AM
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Default Newark FD Tac Channels

For M/A into Irvington, Newark will often just flip right over to IFD Ch. 1 also.


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