I'm lost in the woods regarding 900mhz, DMR, and Motorola's radio designs.

[Jasphetamine]

I want to buy a few radios which need to be durable and powerful. They need to work in NYC where the air is soaked with traffic. They need to be simple enough that anyone who is handed one can figure out how to make it work.

I think this means I want something operating on 900mhz. However, Moto's sub-400 dollar radios have... well they look like Talkabouts.

The 900mhz technology is in theory quite impressive but it isn't time tested -- also it is slathered in marketing and confusing to me. I don't think it is DMR, but it is digital? It seems like it is encrypted, but I thought the FCC banned that? I don't like the whole handset-to-handset idea either. Help.

Over the years a Motorola radio became sentimentalized in my mind as a simple, heavy, indestructible, and time tested tool that always worked. Just a black box that kept everyone on comms without making a fuss.

If I go off those criteria, it then seems like maybe the RMM2050 would fit the bill. Robust chassis, proper form factor, no nonsense. I assume when I got them I'd set them up with privacy codes together, put them on the charger, then they'd just act like what I'm used to the next day.

The question then becomes is 900mhz the solution here, and if so should I wait a while to see if Moto puts out a 900mhz radio in a more traditional form factor?

- Jas

 

[robertmac]

As the last post in your other thread said, maybe more explanation as to what you are trying to perform might lead to more helpful advice. Such as distance required, within buildings or outside, why need for privacy, have you really looked at what radios dealers might be able to give you [repeaters if required], how durable and more.

 

[Jasphetamine]

1) Milspec durability and water resistance.
2) Range of about a kilometer non-LOS in urban setting from mixed indoor/outdoor locations.
3) Usable in areas with crowded airwaves. Very crowded.
4) Ability to minimize third parties listening in. No need for encryption level privacy though. Essentially when somethings gone wrong you don't tell people who don't need to know. Part of "The show must go on" best practices.
5) Usable at arbitrary number of locations without multiple licenses.
6) 100% FCC compliance.
7) Minimal interface -- sometimes you give a HT to untrained people you can only trust with volume, channel, and PTT.
8) USD200 per HT target budget.
9) Repeater capable would be nice, but not immediate concern.
10) User programming if it isn't MURS.

Right now the Moto RMM2040 MURS or DLR1060 seem like they fit the bill, but I would appreciate advice.

Thanks,
- Jas

 

[cmdrwill]

Don't those radios work in the ISM part of the 900 band which is full of interference?

 

[Jasphetamine]

Don't those radios work in the ISM part of the 900 band which is full of interference?

Yeah, but unless Motorola screwed up the digital protocol they use it shouldn't be an issue.

 

[N4GIX]

Why did Motorola make the DLR1060 look like a kids toy?

 

[PACNWDude]

My DTR radios work fine in 900 MHz band with no interferance. Several local schools and other groups use them in the area as well.

Any Motorola built on that style of frequency hopping and VSELP gets my money.
Mine work within about a mile range, in and outdoors.

 

[Jasphetamine]

My DTR radios work fine in 900 MHz band with no interferance. Several local schools and other groups use them in the area as well.

Any Motorola built on that style of frequency hopping and VSELP gets my money.
Mine work within about a mile range, in and outdoors.

What kind of environment(s) do you use your DTR in?

 

[KC3ECJ]

I used Motorla DTRs when I worked at a Macy's store in a mall. They worked fine there.

 

[ecps92]

It has probably been suggested in the other multiple threads on this, but GO work with a local radio shop. They can help you out and likely be the source of servicing the radios if needed. And they can assist with the proper licensing process

I want to buy a few radios which need to be durable and powerful. They need to work in NYC where the air is soaked with traffic. They need to be simple enough that anyone who is handed one can figure out how to make it work.

I think this means I want something operating on 900mhz. However, Moto's sub-400 dollar radios have... well they look like Talkabouts.

The 900mhz technology is in theory quite impressive but it isn't time tested -- also it is slathered in marketing and confusing to me. I don't think it is DMR, but it is digital? It seems like it is encrypted, but I thought the FCC banned that? I don't like the whole handset-to-handset idea either. Help.

Over the years a Motorola radio became sentimentalized in my mind as a simple, heavy, indestructible, and time tested tool that always worked. Just a black box that kept everyone on comms without making a fuss.

If I go off those criteria, it then seems like maybe the RMM2050 would fit the bill. Robust chassis, proper form factor, no nonsense. I assume when I got them I'd set them up with privacy codes together, put them on the charger, then they'd just act like what I'm used to the next day.

The question then becomes is 900mhz the solution here, and if so should I wait a while to see if Moto puts out a 900mhz radio in a more traditional form factor?

- Jas

 

[chief21]

I'm not sure which forum you've been following, so I posted this response in both...

As you've mentioned, perhaps buying two 900 MHz radios will tell the tale. But after reading your wish list, I still feel that applying for a FCC business license to use several itinerant frequencies might be the best solution. Itinerant frequencies can be used anywhere (in the USA), by any of your business associates - without the limitations of GMRS or MURS - and would offer you the most opportunities to upgrade or expand your capabilities in the future.

If memory serves, the cost of an itinerant license is $165 for a ten-year license, which is renewable. Both VHF and UHF frequencies are available in the itinerant pool. In general, VHF frequencies might have better range in open areas while UHF frequencies tend to work better in urban areas and buildings. If some thought is given to the license application, you could request approval for both analog and digital modes, as well as both simplex and repeater frequencies in order to have the option of adding a repeater in the future.

Although Motorola commercial radios might be considered the "gold standard", they are also quite pricey. But there are plenty of good-quality commercial alternatives available - including some newer analog/digital models in the neighborhood of your $200 price point (while not necessarily encrypted, using digital radios would provide a certain level of privacy from casual monitoring, as well as improved audio fpr the users.)

Good luck with your project. Let us know how it turns out.

John

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

This may be vaporware, but it is a tiny 900 MHz FHSS radio with AES256!!! </= 1 mile coverage. Actually two models, one is smaller has a smaller battery and needs an earpiece full time.

The AES256 is programed manually with 15 digits from the user interface. Securing a fleet of a 100 of these will have you wishing for some Securenet radios and a KVL. I guess you could just flip the first three digits of the string and hope for the best.

I think they are competing for some of Motorola's hospitality and retail market. About 300 bux each.

Rollts Digital Communicator

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

This company claims to have a repeater that works with Motorola 900 MHz ISM radios;
DRX550 Digital Range Extender for DTR410/DTR550/DTR650/DLR1020/DLR1060

Frequency: 900MHz

Cane Wireless - DRX digital repeater

Not sure how it works or how effective it is. It would seem they need to play a game with offsetting the time slot between RX and TX.

 

[Your_account]

I think this means I want something operating on 900mhz

Buy a Cellphone.

 

[N4GIX]

Buy a Cellphone.

What a pointless suggestion. Cellphones do not allow for one to many communications, which radios do allow.

 

[ecps92]

slightly off topic, but upon further elaboration he may have been pointing out, that:

There is an APP for that.

ie: Zello and others that do handle GROUP Calls

What a pointless suggestion. Cellphones do not allow for one to many communications, which radios do allow.

 

[Your_account]

Cellphones do not allow for one to many communications, which radios do allow.

what is what run on 900Mhz Band.
Cost ~20&#8364; and work very good.

 

[PACNWDude]

Some are used in schools, others in shopping malls, and construction sites. All of them I am responsible for have worked well with no interference.

The only issue I have ever had is a person once tried to cram the charging connector cable into the cradle upside down. I explained that Motorola is proud of showing off their bat wing logo and if you can't see it, the cable is upside down. It will almost click in, but not quite fit upside down.

One of my pictures of my "shack" has a few of them shown being programmed. They are pretty secure if you put your own network ID into them.

I use a few in the woods camping too.....they work well there too. Range is about 1 mile in all conditions, city or woods.

 

[Jasphetamine]

Buy a Cellphone.

What a pointless suggestion. Cellphones do not allow for one to many communications, which radios do allow.

slightly off topic, but upon further elaboration he may have been pointing out, that:

There is an APP for that.

ie: Zello and others that do handle GROUP Calls

I have a Teamspeak server. It allows a ton of people to be on full duplex high quality comms via any PC/Mac/iPhone/Android device with an internet connection. I'm covered for that.

Unfortunately, a cellphone is intrinsically unsuitable for a wide variety of environments and activities.

Some are used in schools, others in shopping malls, and construction sites. All of them I am responsible for have worked well with no interference.

The only issue I have ever had is a person once tried to cram the charging connector cable into the cradle upside down. I explained that Motorola is proud of showing off their bat wing logo and if you can't see it, the cable is upside down. It will almost click in, but not quite fit upside down.

One of my pictures of my "shack" has a few of them shown being programmed. They are pretty secure if you put your own network ID into them.

I use a few in the woods camping too.....they work well there too. Range is about 1 mile in all conditions, city or woods.

That sounds pretty promising. If they're used in shopping malls they should be dealing with plenty of noise around the 900mhz band.

Did the radio survive the connector cable mistake?

 

[PACNWDude]

The radio did survive the cable connector mistake. The connector from the charging transformer to the charging cradle was the one put on backwards. It did not click on all of the way,so the radio would never charge in the cradle. I explained to the person who connected the cable that the Motorola symbol needs to face up. And then the charger worked fine.

The DTR series has been a great value for my purposes. Having some radios that are not interfered with by the millions of kids and others with FRS/GMRS blister pack radios is worth the price alone for me. There is the slight delay with it being digital, but it forces people to think about what they are going to say and then unkey the radio.