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Motorola Type II Smartzone Questions - the more the better?

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arturobandini

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I listen primarily in Birmingham, AL. There is one RED (primary) control channel and no BLUE (secondary) control channels. There are few that are black.

Then there is something called Simulcast, with RED, BLUE and black channels.

Questions:
What is Simulcast?
Do I need only program the primary control channel?
Does it behoove me to enter all available channels?
 

ssmith39

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Type II Smartzone

(1) "Simulcast refers to the process of transmitting the same signal from different tower locations over the same frequency at the same time."

See: Simulcast - The RadioReference Wiki

(2) In most instances you need only to enter the red control channel and the scanner will populate the rest. If you're inclined to experiment get a copy of Unitrunker (below) and watch how it will learn the channels, system ID's and tower locations.

Unitrunker: Unitrunker
 

arturobandini

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thank you! I don't connect my scanner to a computer, I do it al manually (I've inferred the software isn't mac friendly).

I haven't seen my scanner, a Pro-651, populate any frequencies. If it is, I don't know where to look. What I've done is enter them manually.

Is it better for me to enter as many frequencies as possible? Do I enter the simulcast frequencies as well?
 

mmckenna

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Systems vary, but it's usually common for a site to have more than one control channel available. That way if the repeater acting as the control channel fails, it can roll to another one.
Back many years ago I had a single site SmartNet system, and I used 4 of my 5 channels for control channels. It was set up to roll to a different channel every morning at 1am. That way the wear and tear was shared between repeaters.

I know there are many sites that just stick with one control channel, and maybe one backup. Either way, it won't hurt to program in all the available channels as possible control channels.

Repeaters fail. Individual repeaters can be shut down for maintenance. And, I don't always trust the sources of info for some of the information in the database.
 

ofd8001

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While this can be a debatable issue, unless I'm approaching scanner memory limits, I'll program all frequencies (Primary Control Frequency, Alternate Control Frequency and Voice Frequencies).

That gives me that warm fuzzy comfort feeling that even if the control channel changes to something not listed as such, I'll still receive a control channel. While I know every effort is made at having an accurate database, it is done by humans who can make a mistake or not have all the information needed. It's that "Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it" philosophy.
 

troymail

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As is the case with almost anything in life, what works for some isn't always the best for others.

My local county Motorola system - which is about at the end of it life and in the planning stages for replacement - and is a countywide, single simulcast system that is mixed mode (about half analog and half P25/digital voice) regularly suffers from some type of issue that results in the "rolling" of the control channel between the primary and one or more "alternate" but known frequencies.

Anything is possible but most of these types of systems "broadcast" to subscriber radios what frequencies the radio should be aware of that might end up being a control channel (for the radio to check) should the signal on the "current" control channel disappear.

In most cases, these primary and alternate CC frequencies are posted on the RRDB. However, this information is RR user provided and subject to incorrect and/or incomplete information and changes that aren't updated, etc.

So, on the surface, it might make sense to enter ALL of the frequencies in your programming. That too could still result in losing reception should that list be incomplete and/or undergo changes without someone reporting those updates in a RRDB submission.

Having said that, there are other cases where programming everything isn't a good choice -- mostly, those cases being newer systems that exhibit "digital simulcast" issues. While this may not apply for the older Type II systems, it is still something to consider.

Keep in mind that if your scanner loses sync/track of the control channel, it will then start looking through all of the frequencies you have programmed for any given site trying to find where the CC went. In newer systems, the scanner typically just lost sync and starts searching only the find that the CC didn't change. The fewer frequencies for the radio to check, the faster (potentially) the scanner reacquires the CC.

For my state P25 system, the CC frequency is pretty stable so I tend to only program the primary CC frequency for each site for the best performance.

In most cases, I also treat each system "site" (and associated control channel frequencies for each) as a separate "system". This way, my radio doesn't make decisions for me which site it thinks I should/want to be listening to.

Again - every situation is different and the power is in your hands to program what works best for you - once you understand how they may or may not work. In life there is "text book" but then there is reality that many times is not the same.

BTW - with reference to "only to enter the red control channel and the scanner will populate the rest" - what was meant here is that the scanner will read data from the control channel (but not for all system types!) and determine all of the voice frequencies from that data. However, the scanner do not "populate" your scanner programming - it just uses that data "on the fly".
 
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ScanWI

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One thing to keep in mind is a SmartNet/SmartZone system can only have 4 Control channels setup per site. A P25 system any channel could be the control channel if needed, however they are usually prioritized.
 

radioman2001

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Quote"One thing to keep in mind is a SmartNet/SmartZone system can only have 4 Control channels setup per site "

Not true a SmartNet has 4 a SmartZone system has up 32. This is right out the programming of a SmartNet system I monitor. Then there is the all band Control Channel setting, meaning if the radio cannot find a control channel in the list it will scan the whole band 700/800 (or whatever band the radio is) looking for a control channel with the right ID.

Also only P-25 systems broadcast control channels, all other M systems have to have the correct ones programmed in the radio.

So I would start with the Red channel listed in the DB, you can check reception of it by programming it as a conventional and verifying that you can hear it. If you have room add all the channels listed in the DB.
 

slicerwizard

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Quote"One thing to keep in mind is a SmartNet/SmartZone system can only have 4 Control channels setup per site "

Not true a SmartNet has 4 a SmartZone system has up 32. This is right out the programming of a SmartNet system I monitor.
No. He's right and you're wrong. Each site is limited to four control channels and they have to be physical channels one through four.
 

ScanWI

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For scanner yes, for actual radios no, and again I am talking about the system not scanners capability

We are also talking about the system, as someone who works on these systems I am very familiar with how they work.

On a SmartNet/SmartZone system only four of the channels at each site can be a control channel. This can be changed physically but the system will not assign the CC to any channel other then those four.

In a P25 system, every channel on a site can be listed with the following CC preference.

Always, Preferred, Low Priority, Never

Not true a SmartNet has 4 a SmartZone system has up 32. This is right out the programming of a SmartNet system I monitor. Then there is the all band Control Channel setting, meaning if the radio cannot find a control channel in the list it will scan the whole band 700/800 (or whatever band the radio is) looking for a control channel with the right ID.

This is a radio programming setting and has nothing to do with the system.
 
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