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Old 04-24-2010, 3:18 PM
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Default Motorola TRBO Use on Amateur Radio

Does anyone know the legality of using Motorola TRBO technology on amateur radio, specifically in repeater operation on UHF 440-450 MHz? It appears that a new repeater using this mode is up and running in the NYC-Metro area.
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Old 04-25-2010, 7:35 AM
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It is legal, as long as the repeater frequency pair is coordinated and licensed.
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Old 04-25-2010, 8:59 AM
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I think you are referring to WB2HWW, correct? They just switched to TRBO, although I still hear some analog now again.

It's funny, I was just going to go remove the repeater from my scanlists when I saw this...
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Old 04-25-2010, 9:17 AM
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More TRBO garbage. Same with D-link and Nexedge. Go P25. Then you and others can choose whether you want to use Icom or Kenwood or Motorola or any other manufacturer rather than be limited to just one. There are several P25 machies up in the NNJ area. I just wish they would link them to create a P25 network in NJ.
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Old 04-25-2010, 9:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by namhcor View Post
Does anyone know the legality of using Motorola TRBO technology on amateur radio, specifically in repeater operation on UHF 440-450 MHz? It appears that a new repeater using this mode is up and running in the NYC-Metro area.
As long as the digital system is not encrypted the mode is legal under FCC Part 97 Amateur Radio Service rules. There is a limitation on what bands spread spectrum can be used on, 222 MHz and above, but there is no such limitation on digital voice modes.
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Last edited by kilowa22; 04-25-2010 at 9:25 AM.. Reason: spell/sentence
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Old 04-25-2010, 12:35 PM
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Default Trbo

Bezking,

Incorrect. WB2HWW is still, and will remain analog.

What you may be hearing, is that, on occasion, WB2HWW simulcasts the KC2CQR MotoTrbo
repeater. And I must add here that the Trbo system works flawlessly. It seems to be everything
that D-Star wanted to be, but isn't. The building penetration of the Trbo digital signal is beyond
amazing. It may not replace analog, but Trbo is an amazingly robust system; and the clarity
of it's digital signal makes P25 sound like a tin can and string (ok, that may be a bit of an
exaggeration,but in constant testing, Trbo's signal is better and has more clarity than P25).

The Trbo system flies it's flag under the auspices of KC2CQR

I also don't agree with e911god when he says "more Trbo Garbage". It may not be for mission critical comms such as P25, but calling Trbo garbage is irresponsible. Trbo is indeed limited to the Big M, but Vertex, HYT, and Tait are also planning DMR compatible radios. Trbo was never intentioned for public service. It was originally aimed at professional business users.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bezking View Post
I think you are referring to WB2HWW, correct? They just switched to TRBO, although I still hear some analog now again.

It's funny, I was just going to go remove the repeater from my scanlists when I saw this...
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Last edited by KG4PSN; 04-25-2010 at 12:43 PM..
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Old 04-25-2010, 12:59 PM
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Default Trbo

Interesting thread. In Ft. Worth Texas there is a P25 Amateur repeater so no, as Dave stated so long as the frequencies are coordinated there is no limitation as to which voice protocol can be used. Some Operators in Dallas are toying with the idea of creating an EADS Digital repeater as again, the audio is quite exceptional.

It's rumored that MOTOTRBO may become inter-operable with P25 in the future. While I'm no guru on TRBO I've heard some things TRBO does that no other flavor of Digital can do that makes it an interesting and unique product. It really could be to Amateur radio what DSTAR has failed to do.
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Old 04-25-2010, 1:01 PM
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Default It really could be to Amateur radio what DSTAR has failed to do

My point EXACTLY.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxTracker View Post
Interesting thread. In Ft. Worth Texas there is a P25 Amateur repeater so no, as Dave stated so long as the frequencies are coordinated there is no limitation as to which voice protocol can be used. Some Operators in Dallas are toying with the idea of creating an EADS Digital repeater as again, the audio is quite exceptional.

It's rumored that MOTOTRBO may become inter-operable with P25 in the future. While I'm no guru on TRBO I've heard some things TRBO does that no other flavor of Digital can do that makes it an interesting and unique product. It really could be to Amateur radio what DSTAR has failed to do.
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Old 04-25-2010, 2:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KG4PSN View Post
Bezking,

Incorrect. WB2HWW is still, and will remain analog.

What you may be hearing, is that, on occasion, WB2HWW simulcasts the KC2CQR MotoTrbo
repeater. And I must add here that the Trbo system works flawlessly. It seems to be everything
that D-Star wanted to be, but isn't. The building penetration of the Trbo digital signal is beyond
amazing. It may not replace analog, but Trbo is an amazingly robust system; and the clarity
of it's digital signal makes P25 sound like a tin can and string (ok, that may be a bit of an
exaggeration,but in constant testing, Trbo's signal is better and has more clarity than P25).

The Trbo system flies it's flag under the auspices of KC2CQR

I also don't agree with e911god when he says "more Trbo Garbage". It may not be for mission critical comms such as P25, but calling Trbo garbage is irresponsible. Trbo is indeed limited to the Big M, but Vertex, HYT, and Tait are also planning DMR compatible radios. Trbo was never intentioned for public service. It was originally aimed at professional business users.
Aha. Of course, because I have no TRBO equipment, I would have never been able to tell that. Thanks for clearing it up.

I also would rather a P25 machine here because equipment is more abundant and cheaper, and I personally think that the keypad and display TRBO radio looks kinda silly.
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Old 04-25-2010, 6:27 PM
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I agree completely. When I first heard that a Trbo repeater was going up, I was, in fact, startled beyond belief. I thought surely a P25 repeater was the way to go; much more equipment available, P25's wide adoption, etc.

When I first saw the XPR 6550 portable, I did a quick gulp. I was not happy. The radios' industrial design really left me wanting. The wide display actually has a few good points, but the shape and size of the radio don't do anything for me. I obviously have become a Trbo fan-boy, but oh how i wish for a wide area P25 ham repeater in the NYC area.

Having said that, the Trbo mobile is a work of art; the radio is rock solid in design and performance, but I do wish M had made a more robust portable, somewhere in between the APX family and the XPS family of radios... A portable with....CHUTZPAH!


Bezking wrote:"I also would rather a P25 machine here because equipment is more abundant and cheaper, and I personally think that the keypad and display TRBO radio looks kinda silly"
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Old 04-25-2010, 6:32 PM
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Default Motorola TRBO

The Trbo system flies it's flag under the auspices of ..."K2QQJ

73s de K2QQJ
Eric Perez
biggied104@msn.com

449.7250 K2QQJ "MetroCor Coordinated"


The role of coordination is a "balancing act", where the interests of all spectrum users are taken into account. The ongoing needs of the Amateur Radio community have caused this role to evolve from simple FM repeater, link and control channel coordination into one of more efficient spectrum management. Spectrum management must now account for the needs of weak signal, FM simplex, ATV, packet and other new technology spectrum users.
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Old 04-25-2010, 7:33 PM
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Well, I guess we will have to work with what we have got. So, my question is now:

Who do you recommend to buy a TRBO radio from in the NYC area?

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Old 04-25-2010, 7:37 PM
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By FAR, the best prices to be had:

Sunny Communications

Dave (at Sunny) just got a while lot more of the radios...

Portable: XPR 6550
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Old 04-25-2010, 9:27 PM
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I had thought in the Amateur Radio Service any digital modulation used had to be an 'open source' protocol and not proprietary. Was that changed in the rules, or is that for non-voice operations?
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Old 04-25-2010, 10:26 PM
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I got pissed when i heard the wb2hww repeater was going digital. It was like a tv show getting cancled. There was some good, funny & Aguments going on. I always listened to them on my scanner. I've seen some on and off activity on the analog repeater. I wonder what happened to the GMRS repeater that was on 462.725?
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Old 04-26-2010, 7:39 AM
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Wow. A whole Hamsexy repeater.

Honestly, I think using protocols that are "aimed at the professional business user" by hams who either work for commercial shops or have deep pockets is just a kind of snobbery. Regular ham radio isn't good enough for the elitist ham.

All these guys really want to do is to "play radio." Their jobs and the authorized uses for the fancy gear don't allow this, so they create high-dollar ham radio as a sort of gated community playground.
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Old 04-26-2010, 8:13 AM
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Default Lighten up

ok - i think some of you hams have lost your focus.

One of the main points of amatuer radio is experimentation with new modes & technologies
and always has been. What is all this bashing these fellas that experiment with these new
things all about?

If these new modes fail to take off then let them die a natural death and no harm done.

I fail to see the need for all this bashing.
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Old 04-26-2010, 8:16 AM
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Default The Digital Elit

Tsk, Tsk.... Such narrow minded thinking from the one and only self-prclaimed "forensic" scannist.
forensic |fəˈrenzik; -sik|
adjective
of, relating to, or denoting the application of scientific methods and techniques to the investigation of crime : forensic evidence; of or relating to courts of law.

So tell us: what qualifies you as a "forensic"? Hold a PHd? Any degree which qualifies you in the study of forensics, which applies to law?

Let's move on to the digital elite, as you call it. What does the forensic scannist have to say about
D-Star? Are the fans of D-Star elitist? Or doesn't Icom fit the bill of elitists?

The very nature of ham radio is to tinker, experiment, learn and master the varying technologies as they relate to ham radio. What is wrong with hams experimenting with a business aimed radio in the amateur service? Do you propose to say that hams shouldn't be experimenting with D-Star or MotoTrb?

Morse Code. Then onto low band. Then on to VHF. Then onto UHF, etc.... are the operators who migrated to different forms and wavelengths to be considered heretics as well?

Just what is elitist about using two different forms of digital communications; one by Icom; one by Motorola? What is elitist about them? Because one needs dedicated equipment to operate on these
types of digital systems?

Yours is narrow minded thinking. Sure, the big M has a position as the big guns. Icom is one of the big guns, though they made their bones in the amateur field. They too have digital tech, plus P25.

Then there is the aspect of learning about how the digital signal is so much more efficient than analog.
The march towards digital is inevitable; so too is the march towards narrowband, which falls under the guise of spectrum efficiency.

Perhaps you just want to stay in the dark ages. Perhaps you see the march toward digital as invasive of good o' analog. Analog right now still has a place, but if the FCC, which currently exempts the amateur service from narrow banding, decides that it must be mandated in the service as well, does that mean the end of analog? some say yes.Others may disagree.

D-Star and Trbo have nothing remotely to do with elitist. They are two manufactuers who have come out with competing DMR standards, just like the war between VHS and Betamax. Was either one of those elitist? I don't think so. One became a standard. That's all. Betamax may have had an edge on picture quality, but it lost.

Amateurs have the right, and perhaps a mandate to be the experimenters of radio.
Don't call them names, don't throw stones, don't be narrow minded. We have the
ability to experiment with new technologies. We should applaud them for putting
their money where their mouth is, and laying down the cash to experiment and try
something new. Let's say Bravo to them for their forward thinking and risk-taking.

Elitist? I submit that someone who is a self proclaimed "forensic" scannist is elitist.

Your self-appointed title reminds me of the idea of "the pot calling the kettle black".

Jack Nicholson in the movie "Mars Attacks"
"..why can't we all just... get along?"









Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveNF2G View Post
Wow. A whole Hamsexy repeater.

Honestly, I think using protocols that are "aimed at the professional business user" by hams who either work for commercial shops or have deep pockets is just a kind of snobbery. Regular ham radio isn't good enough for the elitist ham.

All these guys really want to do is to "play radio." Their jobs and the authorized uses for the fancy gear don't allow this, so they create high-dollar ham radio as a sort of gated community playground.
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Old 04-26-2010, 8:38 AM
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Guys, we need to cut the bickering here... this is not the place to discuss legality, or elitism...
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Old 04-26-2010, 9:36 AM
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Smile mototrbo

Quote:
Originally Posted by k2qqj View Post
The Trbo system flies it's flag under the auspices of ..."K2QQJ

73s de K2QQJ
Eric Perez
biggied104@msn.com

449.7250 K2QQJ "MetroCor Coordinated"


The role of coordination is a "balancing act", where the interests of all spectrum users are taken into account. The ongoing needs of the Amateur Radio community have caused this role to evolve from simple FM repeater, link and control channel coordination into one of more efficient spectrum management. Spectrum management must now account for the needs of weak signal, FM simplex, ATV, packet and other new technology spectrum users.
Actuality it will be the K2QQJ/KC2CQR mototrbo repeater system . 449.7250 ....73's kc2cqr ....Frank Dinaro trustee. It took a lot of people to make this happen . I would like to thank everyone for the hard work they put in to it ...73's
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